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Author Topic: Buzz, Belinda, Frank, and Magna
Sanitary Engineer
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posted 25 January 2006 05:33 PM      Profile for Sanitary Engineer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I did not post this during the election because I did not want to stir up ill feeling and distract.

However, now, it has to be said.

What in the hell was Buzz Hargroves chumming around with, and endorsing Belinda Stronach, of union-busting Magna?

I live in the Newmarket-Aurora riding and this convinced me to vote for Ed Chudiak, the NDP sacrificial lamb.

Belinda's old man Frank, is living in Austria most of the time these days, and is a big supporter of Jorge Haider's 'Freedom Party', which is the neo-Nazi movement of Austria.

What was the quid-pro-quo between Buzz and Belinda?


From: Now Living In Ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 25 January 2006 05:38 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is from wikipedia, so you will have to take it for what it's worth, but the article on Belinda Stronach does report:

quote:
Stronach supports trade with the United States but would like to re-examine and review parts of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) to ensure, in her view, that Canadians can stand on a more equal footing with U.S. competitors. During her leadership campaign she said the country needed to consider changes to the Medicare system that would respect the principles of the Canada Health Act "as our standard, not our straitjacket".

As a CEO, Stronach was more conciliatory to organized labour than her father, who was noted for his strong opposition to unions at Magna. While head of Magna, she ceased fighting the United Auto Workers in a dispute before the National Labor Relations Board, and the union organized numerous Magna workers in the United States.


Maybe Magna has improved its relationship with the CAW too?

[ 25 January 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sanitary Engineer
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posted 25 January 2006 05:50 PM      Profile for Sanitary Engineer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Today I want to talk about 1390 of those workers -- plus one, workers from the auto parts manufacturing and distribution sector of York Region.

The York Region government website has a page listing York Region's Top Employers. Number one on the list is Magna International.

According to the website, Magna International employs 9,938 people in York Region's auto parts sector. Magna, founded by Frank Stronach, has been in the news a lot lately. Former Premier Mike Harris was recently appointed to its Board of Directors. Current Premier Ernie Eves chose Magna as the setting to deliver his government's so-called budget. And then last week in the Toronto Star, this article: Stronach pockets $58.1 million more (April 4, 2003).

As company Chairman and consultant, Frank Stronach's compensation for a 40 hour work week works out to $27,932 per hour, more in one hour than many earn in a whole year. Daughter Belinda Stronach is now Magna chief executive officer. Her compensation last year was a measly $9.05 million, only $4,350 per hour based on a 40-hour week.

I said I was going to tell you about 1390 workers, plus one. The plus one is a man named Poster, a worker laid off from Magna's Pullmatic plant in York Region.

Like almost all Magna operations, there is no union at Pullmatic. Even though Poster was not a union member, he came to our Labour Council's project, the Labour Education Centre, for help. Last week he attended a computer job search class there; one of many employment services our Centre offers.

Poster immigrated from Congo to Canada in 1986. He lives in York Region and worked as a finisher at Pullmatic. Pullmatic manufactures auto parts and employed over 350 workers. Poster earned $15.75 an hour on the night shift, a far cry from the astronomical sums given to the Stronachs.

Poster was among 55 workers laid off from Pullmatic in February 2001. Pullmatic-Magna provided no assistance to the workers being laid off. Poster says: "There were no services, no help. With no union, there's no one to fight for you, to help save the jobs."


I don't get it. Belinda is 'progressive'?

Mike Harris on the board?

If this is what the left poses as these days, working people are in real trouble.
From:

web page


From: Now Living In Ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pierre Cyr
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posted 25 January 2006 06:31 PM      Profile for Pierre Cyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A lot of players and polices from liberals to conservatives are interchangeable.

The liberals are slightly to the left of conservatives but both are right of center fiscally.

I expect the liberals to move to the right for the next election in a mistaken assumption thats what canadians want when the modest results of the tories should be plain evidence its not. And this could open up possibilities for us in the ndp.

Looks like the first money bill to be enacted will be a liberal corporate tax cut that the tories are gonna implement...

I dont think we can afford both liberal and tory corporate tax cuts platforms. But Im afraid that the tories are trying to gain liberal support to in fact do this...

As for buzz -sigh-. Dont expect all union members to follow suit or even union leaders. If all unionized workers in my riding had voted ndp we'd have won... But instead we got 11% of the vote. Too many union leaders are now thinking that to save their jobs means corporate tax cuts and subsidies are paramount. Shows how far things have fallen...

[ 25 January 2006: Message edited by: Pierre Cyr ]


From: Grand Falls NB | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Evil Twin
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posted 25 January 2006 07:02 PM      Profile for The Evil Twin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I expect the liberals to move to the right for the next election in a mistaken assumption thats what canadians want when the modest results of the tories should be plain evidence its not. And this could open up possibilities for us in the ndp.

While I would like to believe this, unfortunately history has shown the opposite. Whether it's John Turner (1988 Free Trade election), Jean Chretein (Red Book) or Dalton MacGuinty, Liberals tend to move to the left while in opposition. Campaigning as leftists, they manage to fool enough Canadians that they are progressives. It's only once they are safely in office that their true right-wing colours come out.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 25 January 2006 07:03 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If the LPC calls for a policy conference in advance of a leadership convention, then that could save the soul of the Liberal Party. It'll be interesting to see (if there is a policy convention), though, who the delegates would be.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 25 January 2006 07:26 PM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To be fair, the CAW was not the only union supporting Liberals with so-called "strategic voting". A number of the construction unions did the same thing.

However, the construction unions kept it low key and didn't publicly rub our noses in it...the way Hargrove did.

So when CAW types come on the board and talk about the CAW council decision...blah, blah, blah...there is a quantitative difference between what Buzz Hargrove did, and what other so-called "strategic voters" were doing.

Given the mass unemployment that's going to happen in the auto industry...and given the destruction of the unemployment insurance system by Martin...a programme that all those unemployed folks are going to depend on, it makes no sense to me at all for the CAW to have been supporting Liberals.

If the critique of some is that the NDP "isnt' left enough", I really don't get for the life of me why one would make a decision to support the Liberals. It seems to me that the logical decision would be to create a new political party that is to the left of the NDP.

BTW...welcome to Toronto SE

[ 25 January 2006: Message edited by: radiorahim ]


From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
longtime lurker
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posted 25 January 2006 07:54 PM      Profile for longtime lurker        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
....posted a url to the wrong thread....

[ 25 January 2006: Message edited by: longtime lurker ]


From: London, Ont. | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 25 January 2006 10:31 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sanitary Engineer:
I did not post this during the election because I did not want to stir up ill feeling and distract.

However, now, it has to be said.


One thing I should point out is that this election forum will get closed in a few days, though, so if you want to have a longer conversation about this topic you might want to contact one of the moderators and ask to have this thread moved either into the Labour forum or the Politics forum.

[ 25 January 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sanitary Engineer
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posted 26 January 2006 06:39 AM      Profile for Sanitary Engineer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you for the welcome to Ontario, Radio Rahim.

And thank you for the posting advice Robbie_Dee.

As you can probably tell, I am very pro labour(the worker-not necessarily the union).

Hargrove's and the CAW support for the Liberals remind me of the Teamster support for the Republicans during the 60,'s,70's, and 80's.

It seems to me that it benefits the union, more than it's membership, and the union winds ups being corrupted by it.

It might make short-term tactical sense, but the long term damage is not worth it.


From: Now Living In Ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
nevermind
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posted 26 January 2006 11:17 AM      Profile for nevermind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For the most part I agreed with Buzz on strategic voting....but not in Newmarket...

The lovely Belinda...who would be a nobody if she weren't Daddy's daughter...had no problem with Mike Harris....losing your memory a bit in your old age Buzz...

Although I actually think the only thing she and her old man care about is power...and on top of everything else she misread the political winds when she went Grit...

It would have been nice to see the NDP win the riding...but in this case I would have strategically voted Tory...get rid of Belinda before she run as another business liberal/tory to replace Martin

[ 26 January 2006: Message edited by: nevermind ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
WilsonVB
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 26 January 2006 12:32 PM      Profile for WilsonVB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you really think your vote makes a difference?

Bombardier is currently supplying (at a handsome profit) railway cars to the People’s Republic of China. Well business is business and civil rights and human rights have always and probably will always take a back seat on the corporate fiscal bus driven by slavering young corporate-turks carving out their piece of the pie and MBAs happily dismissing concepts like ‘morality’ and ‘values’.

“Canadian company Bombardier signed a contract with the Chinese Ministry of Railways several months ago to build the rail cars for China's Gormo-Lhasa Railway, a politically motivated project that will solidify China's grip on Tibet. Tibetans' greatest fear is that the railway will enable a massive influx of Chinese migrants and settlers into Tibet, overwhelming Tibetan culture and identity. Bombardier is one of the only western companies to partner the Chinese government on the project.”

http://actionnetwork.org/sft/alert-description.tcl?alert_id=3492803

Even if you believe your vote “counts” toward something, where do you think Canadian’s pension funds are being spent and what are the possible outcomes?
“Until now, few people had ever heard of the Carlyle Group. Who even knew that there was a Canadian advisory board? Apparently there is, and its membership includes ex-premier McKenna along with Peter Lougheed, the former premier of Alberta; Power Corp.'s Paul Desmarais, Bombardier's Laurent Beaudoin, former Canadian Ambassador to the United States Allan Gotlieb, and others.”

“Even more, since June every Canadian has had a stake in the Carlyle Group.”

“That's when the Canadian Pension Plan Investment Board committed to investing $60 million (U.S.) into a Carlyle Group venture fund over the next five years. The board invests Canadians' accumulated pension contributions that are not needed to pay benefits.”

“The dramatic rise in the fortunes of arms makers has cast a bright light on the arms industry and the Carlyle Group, especially Carlyle's series of "coincidences and ironies" involving U.S. defence and foreign policies.”

“One of the biggest coincidences surrounds Carlyle's crown jewel, United Defense Incorporated — the U.S. army's fifth-largest contractor and builder of armoured vehicles, artillery, defence electronics and naval guns used on destroyers. "It's the first time the president of the United States' father is on the payroll of one of the largest U.S. defence contractors," said Charles Lewis, director of the Center for Public Policy, one of Carlyle's critics.”
By Steven Staples, Toronto Star, 18 July 2002

If you believe for one moment that the Maurice Strongs’ the Paul Martins’ the Michael Ignatieffs’ the Stephen Harpers’ and the cadre of corporate bedfellows in both the American and Canadian governments will actually put human rights, environmental sustainability and notions like freedom and democracy ahead of dollars, get out there and vote…..

If on the other hand you’re prepared to acknowledge the undercurrent of corporate greed and patronage that passes for government in North America, consider where you’ve got your pensions and investments placed.

Perhaps, like these corporations and “governments” you really don’t care about things like “freedom” and “democracy”….


From: London Ontario Canada | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 26 January 2006 12:48 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I originally posted this link in the Labour & Consumption forum here, but I wanted to re-post it on this thread as I think it touches on some of the key topics being raised.

"Where is the CAW Going? A Debate in the pages of Canadian Dimension Magazine"

quote:
The CAW Turn: Bargaining vs Building
by Freda Coodin

What are we to make of the past round of bargaining between the Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) and the Big Three (GM, Ford, and DaimlerChrysler)? While Telus, Stelco, and CBC workers were in the midst of bitter struggles, the auto talks – reputedly ‘the most difficult set of bargaining in the union’s history’ – were in the end remarkably amiable and union and company press conferences had an aura of a mutual admiration society. So what happened to the CAW’s role in challenging the rest of the labour movement to push further, its status in opposing corporate-inspired neoliberalism, its reputation for practicing a brand of social movement unionism that defined itself in terms of uniting with the community to raise larger political issues?

The issue, it is crucial to emphasize, is not the particular economic outcome of the recent round of negotiations. The CAW achieved significant pension increases at a time when others were worried about hanging on to their pensions; it got a wage increase for its members guaranteeing over a dollar/hr over the three years which will most likely be more than doubled when the union’s cost-of living clause is factored in; and though there were caps placed on a few benefits, the CAW’s rich benefits package seemed intact. Moreover, the agreement received high ratification votes.

The vote, however, also reflected the union’s conscious lowering of expectations going into bargaining and it was this, along with the implicit lessons the union seemed to convey in this round of bargaining, that is so troubling. Collective bargaining is a moment of concentrated attention on what a union is about. The strategic issue beyond any gains themselves, especially in tough times, is how to strengthen the union and increase future options. That is, how to build the understanding, confidence and capacities of the members; and, for unions seeing themselves as leaders within a larger progressive movement, how to affect the general climate of the country and inspire that broader movement. It is on this score, the educational and mobilizing dimension of the agreement, that the outcome and process seemed a step backwards. Bargaining, it seemed, had lost any sense of vision and been reduced to a technical game of tactical manoeuvring amongst a few individuals.


The article also include responses by Jim Stanford and Sam Gindin at the bottom.

Sam Gindin has written a further insightful piece here: GM, the Delphi Concessions and North American Workers: Round Two?


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Evil Twin
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posted 26 January 2006 03:57 PM      Profile for The Evil Twin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Posted by Sanitary Engineer:
quote:
Belinda's old man Frank, is living in Austria most of the time these days, and is a big supporter of Jorge Haider's 'Freedom Party', which is the neo-Nazi movement of Austria.

Is this true??? It would be quite shocking if it was, you would think the MSM (especially the anti-Belinda Stronach ones) would be all over this. All I've heard about Frank is that he screws workers by using temp labour, screws his shareholders by compensating himself to tune of several millions a year, etc. In my eyes these two make him bad enough......but ties to HAIDER? This I haven't heard....any links?


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
het heru
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posted 26 January 2006 04:04 PM      Profile for het heru     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Evil Twin:
Is this true??? It would be quite shocking if it was, you would think the MSM (especially the anti-Belinda Stronach ones) would be all over this.

I'm having a hard time buying this given that he just built a town for a fair amount of black people displaced by Katrina.


From: Where Sekhmet sleeps | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
rinne
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posted 26 January 2006 05:21 PM      Profile for rinne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
If you believe for one moment that the Maurice Strongs’ the Paul Martins’ the Michael Ignatieffs’ the Stephen Harpers’ and the cadre of corporate bedfellows in both the American and Canadian governments will actually put human rights, environmental sustainability and notions like freedom and democracy ahead of dollars, get out there and vote…..

If on the other hand you’re prepared to acknowledge the undercurrent of corporate greed and patronage that passes for government in North America, consider where you’ve got your pensions and investments placed.

Perhaps, like these corporations and “governments” you really don’t care about things like “freedom” and “democracy”….


What do you suggest we do?

I am reminded of a story I heard recently about the second world war. Apparently there were different colored forms for Jewish people to fill out and supposedly there were differences according to the color of the form. Great energy was spent trying to get the right colored form but all the forms led to concentration camps.

Is this what the political arena is degenerating into? We vote red, blue, orange ...but over and over again we see how any political party can be corrupted. How often have the NDP worked to support a candidate that once successful has walked across to the Liberals?

I listened to a CBC program some time back that talked about Magna. Magna was obligated to provide full time employment to temporary workers after two years but after one year and eleven months the workers would be laid off. No doubt considered a good business practiced, after all you wouldn't want to pay benefits for employees if you can get out of it. Lots of curse words.

As to the housing money it would seem a gesture of generousity but the lack of simple fairness in the preceding story doesn't jive with compassion to me.


From: prairies | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 February 2006 06:20 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just moving this to labour and consumption, since the election 2006 forum will eventually be archived, and robbie_dee has asked that this thread be spared such a fate.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
gantenbein
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posted 04 February 2006 10:11 AM      Profile for gantenbein        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Belinda's old man Frank, is living in Austria most of the time these days, and is a big supporter of Jorge Haider's 'Freedom Party', which is the neo-Nazi movement of Austria.

There is a lot of speculation on German-language websites that Stronach is financing the BZÖ, a new party with many former FPÖ members (including Haider), but there doesn't appear to be any proof, and Magna spokespeople have denied the rumours.

Stronach, it has to be pointed out, has connections to all parties in Austria, and has had former/future politicians from all parties in positions at his companies (sound familiar?). This apparently hasn't hurt him in his business dealings and acquisitions in Austria.

While the FPÖ and BZÖ have some very nasty nationalist beliefs indeed, and members have praised and defended aspects of the Third Reich, we also shouldn't forget that they've been in government as junior coalition partner for quite some time now. I say this not in defence of them (!) but to perhaps explain the attraction for Stronach, if the rumours of his financial involvement are true.

Like his daughter, the old man seems to be more of an opportunist than an ideologue.


From: Calgary | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged

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