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Author Topic: What Are You Going to Do Now, Israel?
Frustrated Mess
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posted 17 December 2006 04:23 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
But here is news for you, Israel. The Native Americans haven't given up to this day. Damaged and reduced as they are, they know their history and remember their grievances. They are marginal only because they are one percent of the US population. The Palestinians are five-million strong, equal to you in numbers. And they live within your borders. When their leadership ruins itself, bashing each other like rams fighting to the death, they will finally turn their five million pairs of burning eyes on you, for you will be the only power left over them. And you will be defenseless, because your paper shelter - your Fatah or PA quislings - will be damaged goods, cracked vessels, discredited, gone. And it will then be you and those you have disenfranchised - you and the Palestinians, in one state, with no Oslo or Road Map myth to protect you. And by then, they will truly hate you.

Then perhaps it will dawn on you what you have done, when the disintegration of Palestinian national unity spreads out like a tsunami through the Middle East, meeting up with the tsunami spreading out from Iraq, to lay the region waste and rebound on you.

Watching you create this catastrophe for yourself, we think you are simply suicidal. We could just watch, but your road to ruin promises too much suffering to too many people. Still, to avert your unilateral suicide pact with the Palestinians, to whom can we turn?


When there's no one left to blame


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 17 December 2006 04:56 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the commentary that reads like its from a death cult. "You will die a horrible death, filled with hate, and it will all be your fault!!! doom!!! DOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!"

But, then again, you are one of the mose fatalistic people on this forum in general, so this is hardly surprising.


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
EmmaG
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posted 17 December 2006 06:08 PM      Profile for EmmaG        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nice, FM, very nice. Not only do you paint 5 million Israelis as responsible for every single problem in the middle east and worthy of of their inevitable just desert of death, but you paint 5 million Palestinians is incapable of restraining themselves from violence and hate.

I don't agree with Israeli or American military policy, but I also don't believe that any Israeli or US civilians have only themselves to blame if they are killed by terrorists.

Is Israel responsible for this
?


From: nova scotia | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Legless-Marine
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posted 17 December 2006 06:21 PM      Profile for Legless-Marine        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
Thanks for the commentary that reads like its from a death cult. "You will die a horrible death, filled with hate, and it will all be your fault!!! doom!!! DOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!"

But, then again, you are one of the mose fatalistic people on this forum in general, so this is hardly surprising.


Fatalistic, yes - But probably the most realistic take on the situation I've read in months.

Instead of preaching unrealistic and false hopes such as "two state solution", or "right of return", it accepts the utter gravity and desparation of the Palestinian situation, goes from there, and finds the silver lining.

I'll gladly his fatalism over disingenuous optimism.


From: Calgary | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 17 December 2006 06:35 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I understand your point of view legless marine, but I missed the part about the silver lining, where did you find one? I missed it. It's very easy to be fatalistic. I am very much in general. But if you look at human history as a whole, there's been more good than bad I think, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Recently, the Hamas leader in Syria said he was willing to give israel a six month chance for negotiations. Now, this is unprecedented, and while might not lead anywhere at first try, signals a change. Another factor in the near horizon is the possible election defeat of Ahmadinejad. While another Iranian leader would likely seek nuclear weapons as well, it is less certain that such a leader would be unswayed by MAD as the current leader would be. This would also reduce tensions. The third agent for change is that Olmert is incredibly unpopular, and may soon be replaced by a new prime minister. Speaking as one of the more pro-israel people on this board, it is my uninformed opinion that due to that last factor, the peace process ball is currently in Israel's court.


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Legless-Marine
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posted 17 December 2006 07:07 PM      Profile for Legless-Marine        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:

Recently, the Hamas leader in Syria said he was willing to give israel a six month chance for negotiations.

This overture will likely voice his life insurance policy. The only thing more dangerous to Israel than an Palestinian who wants war, is one who wants peace.

The assassination of Saleh Shehadeh in 2002 comes to mind, as he was on the eve the eve of offering a negotiated truce.


quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:

Now, this is unprecedented, and while might not lead anywhere at first try, signals a change.


Hardly unpredented. There have been many arab overtures of peace, and many hudnas. They are irrelevant. The Israeli program of
ethnic cleansing still continues, relentlessly confining Palestinians to ever-shrinking concentration camps.

quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
The third agent for change is that Olmert is incredibly unpopular, and may soon be replaced by a new prime minister.

You fellatiously assume that a change in leadership will result in a change of Policy. The Zionist blueprint is bigger than those who implement it. It will continue.

quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:

Speaking as one of the more pro-israel people on this board, it is my uninformed opinion that due to that last factor, the peace process ball is currently in Israel's court.

I find it deceitful and distracting to even discuss any kind of a peace process. This is not a "misunderstanding" that can be resolved with some good negotiation and getting the right people in a room together.

This is premeditated ethnic cleansing, implemented by racists who claim to be acting in God's will.


From: Calgary | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 17 December 2006 07:31 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by EmmaG:
[QB]Nice, FM, very nice. Not only do you paint 5 million Israelis as responsible for every single problem in the middle east and worthy of of their inevitable just desert of death,

This is a complete misreading of the article. Not only are all the Mideasts problems not layed at Israel's door, but the author doesn't suggest that Israelis are deserving of "death". Talk about "fatalistic" histrionics.

Stop.

Breath.

Read it again.


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 17 December 2006 07:34 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by EmmaG:
[QB]

I don't agree with Israeli or American military policy, but I also don't believe that any Israeli or US civilians have only themselves to blame if they are killed by terrorists. [/qb


This is the best part, you complain (falsely) about the author justifying the deaths of 5 million Jews, and here (in yet another misreading of the article) you've turned 5 million Palestinians into "terrorists".

Nice job...


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 17 December 2006 07:53 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Legless-Marine:
You fellatiously assume...

Was that on purpose? If so, it's pretty funny. If not, it's still pretty funny....


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 17 December 2006 08:09 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
This is the best part, you complain (falsely) about the author justifying the deaths of 5 million Jews, and here (in yet another misreading of the article) you've turned 5 million Palestinians into "terrorists".


It is even better than that. I am getting credit (blamed?), by bothe EmmaG and 500 Apples, for the words of an article I haven't written. Amazing.

It is also clear both apologists for Israel have failed to read the article. The article doesn't say anyone is going to die. It doesn't say anyone is going to be violent much less a "terrorist"? Who is the bigot here? The person writing the article, the person posting it, or the person misrepresenting it? And why misrepresent it?

It is an excellent article and here, in a nutshell, is what it says: Having successfully destroyed the Palestinian leadership, Israel will find itself the only legal and political authority of the 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. With no effective political or legal Palestinian leadership and Israel forced to take on that burden by virtue of their own actions ... Presto! A de facto single state solution.

Israel is reaching the end of the political road with regard to the Palestinian question. The remaining options for Israel are as follows: 1) A full democratic state with full and equal rights for Palestinians. 2) Full Apartheid (or a non-contiguous, reserve system on the most marginal land, and subject to constant and ongoing Israeli military incursions, along with the obligatory brutality, violence, and humiliation) which Israel will attempt to sell as a Palestinian state. 3) Transfer (the Israeli euphemism for ethnic cleansing).

From what we've seen so far, which will it be?

[ 17 December 2006: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Legless-Marine
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posted 17 December 2006 08:56 PM      Profile for Legless-Marine        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

It is an excellent article and here, in a nutshell, is what it says: Having successfully destroyed the Palestinian leadership, Israel will find itself the only legal and political authority of the 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. With no effective political or legal Palestinian leadership and Israel forced to take on that burden by virtue of their own actions ... Presto! A de facto single state solution.

Until early 2006, I was still deceiving myself that TSS was preferable. I now realize it's no longer a question of preferring one over the other, as only one is possible.


quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

Israel is reaching the end of the political road with regard to the Palestinian question. The remaining options for Israel are as follows: 1) A full democratic state with full and equal rights for Palestinians. 2) Full Apartheid (or a non-contiguous, reserve system on the most marginal land, and subject to constant and ongoing Israeli military incursions, along with the obligatory brutality, violence, and humiliation) which Israel will attempt to sell as a Palestinian state. 3) Transfer (the Israeli euphemism for ethnic cleansing).

From what we've seen so far, which will it be?


My money is on 2b: Keep them confined until a larger war breaks out, and then commence en-masse extermination via F-16. Probably in "Retaliation" for the Palestinians launching their pathetic homemade fireworks.

Frustrated mess, I share your frustration.


From: Calgary | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 17 December 2006 11:55 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
But if you look at human history as a whole, there's been more good than bad I think, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Quite true, but it isn't very helpful to look at human history as a whole, when only the examples that are analogous to this situation can provide any insight. Progress is always being made, but only within peace and order. Very rarely in the midst of chaos, and if the sitaution in Israel isn't chaos, I don't know the meaning of the word.

Of course, the example in South Africa, while not entirely applicable, is one instance where a bad situation ended better than we could have expected, but this only happened because of a concerted global effort to pressure the white elite to end their opression. Are you counselling a similar campaign against the leaders of Israel?


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged

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