I wouldn't want to work in most parts of the US, mainly because I don't like the culture. Way too much neon. They have ugly liquor stores.

The question was something like "Would you consider taking a job in the U.S. for a salary of the same amount in American dollars?" (In other words, if I made $30,000.00 Canadian, would I take a job in the States for $30,000.00 U.S.?)

For one thing, DrConway's remark about the health insurance is a bit strange. I've been down here for 5 years, but when I was still living in Canada you could get Blue Cross traveler's insurance for between 50 & 60 bucks, and that was good for 1 year of travel. It just seems to me that if you can afford a trip to another country, 60 bones should be within your grasp...

Now, my employer down here sticks me for $30 per week for health coverage, which may sound a bit steep on the surface, $1500 per year; but trust me folks, on balance I come out ahead! At the risk of sounding overly materialistic, there's just no comparison what % of your paycheque you can hang on to. (for the record, I was born & raised in Kweebec, so the difference in taxation couldn't have been more striking.)

But over and above the $$$ factor, I've had a great time. Far from spending the last 5 years in the glamourous spots, I've lived in Lansing, MI, Janesville, WI (the town famous for hosting the Geraldo show where he got clobbered with a chair, BTW), and now Shreveport, LA. While none of those spots are exactly tourist meccas, I don't see any of it as wasted time. I've met some great friends, and had a lot of laughs.

I guess I just take exception to the tone in the postings that strikes me as "Ewww, I'd never go there". My advice would be if you get a decent offer, be it on the other side of the country, or the other side of the planet, go for it! And don't let stereotypes or preconceived notions guide you either; as the saying goes "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got." Cliché, perhaps, but it applies here...

What's your health insurance plan anyway? Co-payments? Deductibles? Limitation on primary care doctor to one already in the insurer's list of doctors who've signed up?

For anything medical, I'm covered 100%. Dental & eye care have deductables (I think half, but I'm not sure), but in the interest of comparing health care between the 2 countries, my coverage is the same.

The HUGE difference is the "turnaround" time. As someone completely unknown to a clinic, I've asked for an appointment for a general check-up and been given one 2 days hence, something that's NEVER happened to me in "La Belle Provence". One funny thing I saw on a billboard here in Shreveport was an ad for a hospital guaranteeing that you will not spend more than 30 minutes in their emergency room before being attended to. Sort of like what you'd expect if Domino's Pizza got into the health care biz...

For what it's worth, I've spent plenty of time lecturing folks down here how medical care really shouldn't be part of the rat race; ideally both prince & pauper should get the best care possible, then once recovered, it's back on the treadmill that we call working for a living.

But let's face it: health care in Canada is under an incredible amount of strain, and with a population bubble creeping up on old age, it's not going to get any better. I've seen news reports from Quebec where cancer patients have had to wait for WEEKS after initial diagnosis before seeing an oncologist to begin treatment. Just today, in an on-line editorial in the Montreal Gazette, they were talking about a similar problem with heart surgery. There's mention that in 1999-2000 at the Quebec Heart Institute, 29 people died while on the waiting list. The expected mortality wait on a waiting list is 3 per 1000 cases. Unless this place managed to perform 10,000 procedures, I think we can conclude that people are dying needlessly.

Seriously, there are things that I enjoyed about both places. Many of the differences were subtle and surprising to me. I found business meetings had a more formal politeness to them. People were less likely to accept casual dress in the office. Phone calls were returned more punctually and the whole pace of work was faster. But because of the lower unemployment rate, you sometimes were surprised at the low competency of some individuals for their particular positions. I could go on, but my point is that the myriad of small differences made for a degree of culture shock that surprised me and was not in line with the generalizations I had as a Canadian.

Working here again, I find myself occasionally infuriated by people who think that is okay if they return my call in the next week, dress sloppily on the job, and talk out of turn in meetings. I guess I'll have to acclimatize again.

Advantages here have included MUCH higher take-home pay, lower costs for everything except food and shelter (heck, Labatt's Blue was on sale locally the other day for $US 7 a dozen). I would still give Canada the edge in health care, although in the past I've worked with Canadians from other provinces who actually prefer the U.S. system.

All in all, moving to the U.S. gave me the opportunity to have a middle-class income, and be free from the stress of living paycheck-to-paycheck (which is where you are when you try to live off of $C 30K in Vancouver).

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What standard are you using to make that kind of judgement?

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DFW a suburban wasteland? The neighborhoods looked the same as everywhere else I've been...and I've lived in quite a few different locales.

When I was in Dallas, my $US 780 a month got me a lovely apartment that was 4 years old, had 9-foot ceilings, gourmet kitchen, gas fireplace with polished granite fascia, climate control, and about 720 square feet of space. That same amount in Redmond, WA got a grubby old basement unit with low ceilings, rusty fixtures, 100 square feet less space, and that was very cold in winter.

I find it interesting that when you describe the quality of life you're referring only to what kind of dwelling you can afford. What about the majestic view of the mountains? What about the proximity to the ocean? What about crime rates? What about pollution levels? Etc, etc, etc...

Perhaps instead of comparing Seattle and Dallas, it would be more interesting to compare Seattle and Vancouver?

Dallas doesn't have any majestic views of the mountains, but then again it has nice summers, not 200 days of rain and overcast. Also, in January, on occasion it can be in the eighties, and people will be lounging in bathing suits beside the pool. And views? At my complex, I could have paid $150 more per month, and gotten a view of the golf course that was next door, which had lovely trees, a lagoon with swans, squirrels, etc. Also, it was close to various amenities, including two malls, restaurants, and a movie theater on either side. Here, I have to drive miles for most of that.

Vancouver and Seattle? The former has decent housing and development planning, but everything else there is a negative. Crime levels are outrageous in Vancouver (I've been victimized several times while there), and you have to be very careful of where you leave your vehicle, not leave any valuables, etc. Police protection is mediocre; Vancouver-area forces refuse to deal with most property crimes, will not attend minor accidents, etc. Once, driving down Lake Washington Blvd., I went past an minor fender-bender, and marvelled at how a motorcycle cop had been dispatched there, and was taking the trouble to write it up. That's considered an unaffordable luxury in Vancouver now! And the drug addicts - you most definitely don't see them shooting up and lighting up in public here, unlike Vancouver. People here think I'm kidding when I tell them that one of the best places to buy, sell, and use drugs is on the street corner at Main and Hastings, diagonally opposite the police station! A scene straight out of a George Romero zombie film!

Also, the cost of just about everything in Vancouver, except for basic needs like food and shelter, is as much or higher as it is in Seattle, despite the much lower incomes and sharply higher taxes. At least the federal government finally admitted that the buying power of Canadians has fallen sharply in relation to that of Americans, instead of trying to hide that through phoney statistics.

RD

I've never seen people shoot up in public places, and I have never had a problem with parking my car anywhere - then again, I could cynically point out that since I drive a 1981 Toyota Corolla and I'm not stupid enough to leave valuables in the car, I probably have less trouble with that sort of thing.

For immediate release
June 8, 2001

New CCPA study finds BC has the advantage over Washington State

(Vancouver) A new report released today by the BC Office of the Canadian Centre for Policy
Alternatives finds that BC has the advantage over Washington State. The report, "In Search of
the Good Life: 'Competitiveness' in British Columbia and Washington State," looks at both
traditional business measures of competitiveness as well important cost-of-living and quality of
life measures.

"British Columbians keep hearing that we have to follow Washington State's example of lower
taxes and smaller government if we want to compete for investment and highly-skilled workers,
especially in the high tech industry," says Donna Vogel, author of the study and a researcher
with the Centre's BC office.

The study finds that BC is on par with WA when it comes to most traditional business measures
such as taxes and business costs. It is in the areas of tax fairness, cost of living and quality of
life that BC ranks well ahead of WA. "Traditional business measures of 'competitiveness' tell us
very little about quality of life for most people," says Vogel.

BC's tax system is much more fair than WA's, which is the most regressive tax system in the
US. "Low income families in WA pay almost three times more of their income in state taxes
than high income families. And although an average BC family pays $1,633 more per year in
provincial taxes than a WA family pays in state taxes, BC spends $1,118 more per person on
public programs. The tax savings in WA are more than wiped out by higher private spending by
families for important goods and services like health care and university tuition.

"Higher private spending in WA has contributed to greater inequality," says Vogel. "The gap
between rich and poor has been growing in both BC and WA, but the gap is wider and is
growing faster in WA. Almost 16% of WA's population has no health insurance, and the number
is growing daily."

Many of the employment standards that British Columbians take for granted are virtually
non-existent in WA. Workers in WA are not entitled to statutory holidays or annual vacations
and provisions for maternity leave are vastly inferior. Only women working in the public sector or
for companies with more than 50 employees (just 55% of the workforce) are entitled to a mere
12 weeks of unpaid maternity leave.

"The irony of the situation is that social and economic conditions have worsened over the past
decade in WA--the longest period of economic growth in US history," says Vogel. "After seven
years of tax cuts and economic growth, WA is facing a major fiscal crisis. If competitiveness
means higher out-of-pocket costs, more inequality and lower employment standards, it is time
to ask the question: 'What are we competing for?'"

-30-

"In Search of the Good Life: 'Competitiveness' and Well-Being in British Columbia and
Washinton State" can be read or downloaded from the Centre's website at www.policyalternatives.ca. To arrange an interview with Donna Vogel, call Shannon Daub at
604-801-5509.

If you would like to speak with someone in Seattle, you can contact Sally Soriano, member of
People for Fair Trade and public education activist, at 206-782-8292.

A friend of mine attended a course at the Carnegie center across the street from the police station, and he told me of how he'd get there early in the morning, and see the sidewalk lined with bleary-eyed junkies. They were tired because they'd been up all night stealing things which they were now hawking for cash for fixes, so they could go to bed.

Leaving "valuables" in a car is stupid? To the contrary, I find it perverse that due to breakdowns in public morality, residents of Vancouver have been forced to take measures concerning crime every time they park their vehicles or leave their homes. It only got that way in the last 10 years or so in Vancouver, and many other parts of North American have been blessedly spared such a climate.

I used to hang out at the Starbucks on the corner of Robson and Thurlow. A frequent attendee at these impromptu gatherings was a semi-retired Vancouver city cop - he let it slip that there were dozens of break-ins a day on that block, that the police no longer bothered with them (they only issue a case number for insurance purposes), and that it had gotten to the point where there were even residential break&enters that they weren't bothering to attend. He said that area was awash in an epidemic of drug-related crime, and that they knew who was responsible, but that their hands were largely tied in dealing with it.

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Here's some actual research comparing BC and Washington State on various parameters.

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Rings true for me - the US is a nice place to visit.

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Washington has its problems, like the legislated housing shortage. I wish I could have stayed in Dallas, but some things are more important than money.

Low income families pay three times more as a percentage of their incomes to taxes than high-income ones? That doesn't tell us anything, especially how high those taxes are (they're lower than their B.C. equivalents).

It's also interesting to see how the CCPA uses semantics (always referring to families) to gloss over how singles in B.C. were singled out for especially ruthless income plundering, and that this supposedly lavish program spending rarely benefited them.

For example, I paid the same total deductions on my $C 30K salary as I did here in the U.S. on $US 55K. Every other tax was higher, too, like the 14% sales tax (vs. about 8.3% in Washington), fuel taxes, and liquor taxes that turned cheap beer from an everyday workingman's beverage to a treat - I could go on and on. Oh, and I should mention that I even had to pay a transit levy on my electric bill in B.C., even though my area was not served by transit!

This is sour grapes? Then explain the massive, unprecented defeat the NDP suffered in the last election, when even ridings that had been CCF/NDP all throughout the reign of the Social Credit Party (New Westminster), went over to the Liberals. Rest assured, my frustrations are not isolated!

Cheers, RD

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A friend of mine attended a course at the Carnegie center across the street from the police station, and he told me of how he'd get there early in the morning, and see the sidewalk lined with bleary-eyed junkies. They were tired because they'd been up all night stealing things which they were now hawking for cash for fixes, so they could go to bed.

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That's not the same as what you said before, where you alleged that people actually dealt drugs across from the police station. Now it's people hawking stuff for cash.

Here's what you said before, so don't go back and edit your post to make me look bad.

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People here think I'm kidding when I tell them that one of the best places to buy, sell, and use drugs is on the street corner at Main and Hastings, diagonally opposite the police station! A scene straight out of a George Romero zombie film!

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That's what you said.

Given the wild nature of your accusations and the vitriol with which you pursue them and the inconsistencies in your statements, I call sour grapes.

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Leaving "valuables" in a car is stupid? To the contrary, I find it perverse that due to breakdowns in public morality, residents of Vancouver have been forced to take measures concerning crime every time they park their vehicles or leave their homes.

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Double-post.

By the way, it's only common sense to lock your doors (car and house). Usually it's conservatives like you that wail long and loud about the meanness of human nature and how we-all have to have our guns and our door-locks and our gated communities to keep the riff-raff out.

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That's not the same as what you said before, where you alleged that people actually dealt drugs across from the police station.

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A couple of blocks west on Hastings was the turf of the Honduran crack dealers. Once, we had to walk through a plywood building tunnel where the wood only went waist-high, and then it was chicken wire up to the roof. The crack dealers liked this tunnel for business because the merchandise and cash could change hands obscured by the plywood, foiling the cops taking pictures. We had to walk through this tunnel, squeezing past several of Hondurans...we walked carefully, looked straight ahead, and tried not to look too scared. Now that's an experience that stays with you!

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Now it's people hawking stuff for cash.

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By the way, it's only common sense to lock your doors (car and house).

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BTW I bought the jacket in 1997, at a time when I was making peanuts, and it went straight on a card (which wasn't paid off until late 1999). I was (am not and will never be) rich, but I have to have SOME nice clothes.

So much for a brain drain - the only work I can realistically aspire to here in Vancouver is waiting tables, pumping gas, or working at the local cemetery.

I'm really kicking myself for turning down the relocation offer - could have still been pulling down the big bucks while gaining great experience.

I'm a born and raised Wisconsin Cheese Head. I lived 1 1/2 miles from the town Colby (as in "Colby Cheese")in a very small town (1900 people approx.) My husband (whom I met online) lived in Mississauga, Ontario all of his life.

We live in Kitchener ON now, while my husband finishes University in Waterloo. I can't really comment on working in Canada as I haven't gotten my permits from immigration yet but I do know a bit about the differences in lifestyle.

I've found (given currency exchange) clothing, food, and household stuff is quite a bit less expensive in Canada. However, I've also found that gas, cable, phone, etc is more expensive. Honestly, when you work everything out I don't find there to be much difference as far as spending goes.

I don't quite know about income, though. My husband is doing a double major at UW (computer science and pure math). He wants a programming job and I've heard the Waterloo students get job offers from the US mostly. I'd like to move back...possibly Michigan since it's right in between.