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Although the defection of Cuban athletes from international competitions is not uncommon, the sudden departure of seven players and an assistant coach at a qualifying tournament for the Olympics represented a stunning rebuke to the Cuban government.

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I once saw footage of North Koreans scramble over the fence of an embassy, with an ingenious plan using a ladder or scaffolding disguised as something else, it all happened very quickly and all I could think is - please make it, and what bravery and desperation they have. Why should I feel different about these refugees.

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Surprisingly, Prieto and Bermúdez said, there were no Cuban security guards accompanying the team, as there had been on trips to Colombia, Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:
Cuban Players Fled Their Team for an Uncertain Future

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Well, it's clear that they hope to become professional soccer players and acquire fame and fortune in large measure.

Let me quote the inspiring words of one of the heroes:

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“This could be our opportunity to make our dreams of becoming a professional soccer player come true,” he said Friday by telephone from West Palm Beach.

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This shows, in clear-cut terms, the treacherous role that Cuba plays in the world today.

Poor wretches from the Americas and elsewhere, in need of free health care or medical education, are welcome in Cuba.

Budding athletes, looking to go pro and earn a fucking fortune, turn to the United $tate$ of America!

Because their passion is soccer and they dream of playing in a proffesional league, they are just greedy traitors?

I want to discuss it because, the idea of moving to a place where people can fufill there dreams, where ever for whatever seems natural for anybody but not Cubans.

If I wanted to be a concert pianist and had an opportunity to learn at a top school in the US, I would be a traitor to Canada?

Is there any reason they couldn't form a professional soccer team in Havana other than the US embargo? If not, then you can hardly criticize Cuba for it.

And why would they need to defect in the first place? Is emigration from Cuba illegal?

Edited to add: It might be worthwhile to compare them to Canadian soccer players who emigrate because the standard of play here isn't high enough, particularly wrt both questions above.

[ 15 March 2008: Message edited by: Proaxiom ]

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Originally posted by Proaxiom:
I have two questions out of this:
Is there any reason they couldn't form a professional soccer team in Havana other than the US embargo? If not, then you can hardly criticize Cuba for it.

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:
Do you think Canadians playing soccer in Europe are greedy traitors or Russians playing hockey in North America or African musicians moving to Canada to play Jazz or whatever - yes they make more money but so what it's about opportunity and especially with athletes it's about playing with the best.

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Oh, I agree. People should be free to make as much fucking money as they want, no matter what they have to abandon or betray in the process, no matter who they have to step on or lie or cheat or steal. If we can't even defend elementary individual human freedom like that, how can we call ourselves progressives? Eh? Hunh?

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Should citizens from all countries be forced to stay in the country they happened to be born in or just Cubans?

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:

Should citizens from all countries be forced to stay in the country they happened to be born in or just Cubans?

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If you live in a country that is under siege, that is trying to build a better and more human system, and if you desert that country to pursue personal wealth and some measure of fame, then, yes, you have betrayed something important.

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Originally posted by RosaL:
If you live in a country that is under siege, that is trying to build a better and more human system, and if you desert that country to pursue personal wealth and some measure of fame, then, yes, you have betrayed something important.

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It's a different question to ask whether it is right or wrong, and the ask whether it should be prohibited. The idea of preventing people from leaving a situation they don't like is not compatible with even a loose interpretation of human rights.

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Originally posted by RosaL:

As far as I know, Cuba is opposed to the formation of professional sports teams. There are good arguments for this.

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:
Proaxim - people don't defect from countries they are allowed to leave -are you really that clueless?

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:

But that's not really what yr saying right - it's only bad when they leave socialist paradises for new opportunites elsewhere(maybe their mistake was staying in the US had they defected in say Spain you probably wouldn't care).

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Well, to repeat myself, yes, it's bad when you leave a country that is trying to build a just and human alternative to something unjust and inhumane because you think that the inhumane alternative - regardless of what it does to other people - will give you a lot of money and attention.

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Originally posted by Proaxiom:

There are good reasons to ban lots of things people like to do. Alcohol, movies, television, pornography, smoking, lotteries, etc.

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slavery, capitalism, murder, theft, vandalism, racism, ....

Agreed. We can't ban every destructive thing but we need to ban some destructive things.

[ 15 March 2008: Message edited by: RosaL ]

Proaxim - in the article you'll notice it mentions guards, who were absent when they escaped.

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:

Proaxim - in the article you'll notice it mentions guards, who were absent when they escaped.

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:
Exactly - I said they were absent.

"Surprisingly, Prieto and Bermúdez said, there were no Cuban security guards accompanying the team, as there had been on trips to Colombia, Haiti and the Dominican Republic"

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Yes, I read that. This is what you said:

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... it mentions guards, who were absent when they escaped

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:
If people can'tchooseto take part in the revolution to build a better country or choose to sit out or go elsewhere than the revolution is not the peoples, it's immposed from above.

... and saying it's for your own good you simpletons, just do what we say - doesn't excuse it.

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Or imposed by the majority? (Does that sound familiar in any way?)

That said, I don't know that it makes any sense to compel participation. On the other hand, you might want to prevent people from leaving, if they are going to strengthen the forces that oppose you. But in this case, I think the former consideration outweighs the latter by quite a bit!

[ 15 March 2008: Message edited by: RosaL ]

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Originally posted by Ibelongtonoone:
Rosal - I thought absent and not there meant the same thing, so we did agree.

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Yeah. I think we just gave different nuances to "absent". At least we agree on one thing, eh?

[ 15 March 2008: Message edited by: RosaL ]

It's almost impossible for Cubans to get an immigration visa from the US government, but Washington has made it known that any Cuban who illegally sets foot on a U.S. beach will be welcome. The 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act* grants special immigration privileges to any immigrant from Cuba. Among other things, it says that Cuban immigrants who arrive at "other than designated ports of entry," with or without legal documentation, are guaranteed permanent residency.

As a result, illegal and hazardous methods of travel to US shores are encouraged, and at the same time Washington manages to create the false impression that the use of these illegal and hazardous measures is necessitated by the Cuban government, which is a lie.

The Cuban government says Cubans who want to leave can leave, but it must be by safe and legal means (not by boats or rafts, but by airplane flight), provided they are guaranteed legal entry to another country, including the US.
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* This law legalized the status of all those who had illegally migrated since 1959, giving them US residency and the authorization to work. No other group has ever been given this special treatment, nor was it ever given to the thousands of Cubans who had immigrated before the 1959 revolution. The US is the only country in the world with two immigration laws: one for all other nationalities and one exclusively for Cubans.

[ 15 March 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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Cuba is neither a heaven nor a hell. So let's say it's purgatory, where they say people go; and from where, with a little patience and the help of a few prayers and whatever else can be done for the poor souls in purgatory, they can move on to heaven. They say there is a way out of purgatory, but there's never a way out of hell. If we are in purgatory, we are not going back to hell. At least we have escaped Satan, and are patiently waiting for the moment of reaching heaven.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
It's the USA, not Cuba, that poses the biggest obstacle to legal emigration from Cuba.

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Thanks for the info, M. Spector.

I just did some digging to try to get a better handle on the relevant laws, and found the Wet Feet Dry Feet Policy (info from that page has to be taken with skepticism, since it has few citations and it's on a political issue).

It does appear there are a number of legal methods for Cubans to migrate to the US, agreed upon by both governments in 1994. Anyone who meets US immigration qualifications can go, and also there is a 'lottery' among other applicants, but these are effectively immigration limits set by the US.