Why is it that we allow Russia and China to use their veto to prevent a sizable force being sent into Darfur to end the slaughter?

Why is it that many Canadians only heard of Darfur when Paul Martin tried to bribe David Kilgour to stay as a Liberal before the budget vote?

Why is it that Prime Minsiter Harper has not re-appointed the special envoys to Darfur?

Why is it that the world does not care?

Why is it that groups like Save Darfur Canada Coalition, CASTS, STAND Canada, CJC, Kairos, Project Ploughshares, Warchild Canada, the Reform Judaism Movement, Project equity and the World Federalist Movement to name but a few come together and plan rallies and garner media and political attention for a while then everyone forgets?

well we all must start working together to end the slaughter, rape and violence in Darfur.

Contact an organization listed above or go the save darfur canada
Save Darfur Canada

eta: we have had 2 take note debates in the House of Commons, we have had committee meetings.

But we have had no action.

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]

We can make all the noise and all the appeals we want around Darfur, but nothing will be done. The reality is that Darfur will get far worse. Already the conflict is spreading. The fact is well meaning people want us to address a symptom, refugees, without addressing the problem.

The problem is greater than Darfur. It has to do with air pollution, CO2, climate change, changing rain patterns and drought. The reason the conficts are erupting in the first place is because of shrinking agricultural and grazing lands and water resources. This conflict is expanding to include neighbouring nations.

So what do we do with the refugees if we can't give them land and water? Do we take them here? If not, what is there for them other than life in refugee camps where they sit exposed to the elements, warring rivals, and dependent on the goodwill of attention challenged rich Western donors?

quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
What would you have done about Darfur?

---

I am not sure if that was rhetorical or not.

speaking for me alone. I have helped plan 2 rallies, spoken at 2 events, written letters to politicians, coordinated a petition drive, and provided briefings to a couple of MPs before the take-note debates and written letters to editor

I have done a bit.

ETA: I would love to be in a position to have the discussion about what to do with the refugees whether it be asylum in another country etc. but right now even aid organizations can not provide relief to both those in the camps as well as in villages because of saftey concerns

The first priority is to get a sizable force into the area to protect those being slaughtered. Only when they are safe can we turn the discussion to long-term sustainabilty.

Concurrent discussions would be nice but I will settle for consecutive since right now the African Union forces are fighting with both hands hand-cuffed behind their backs

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]

quote:

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Communal violence in eastern Chad, including raids by mounted Janjaweed militia from Sudan's neighbouring Darfur region, has displaced 20,000 people in the past fortnight, U.N. refugee agency UNHCR said on Friday.

The violence has brought the number of displaced Chadians to over 100,000, in addition to some 230,000 Sudanese nationals who have fled the Darfur fighting and now live in 12 camps dotted along the Chadian side of the border.

"The latest wave of violence over the past two weeks has resulted in the displacement of an estimated 20,000 Chadians," UNHCR said in a statement.

"More than 10,000 of them fled their homes following cross-border attacks by alleged Janjaweed militia in the region of Borota. Another 10,000 from more than 20 villages have fled inter-communal hostilities and are now gathered in the village of Gassire, 8 km 5 miles) north of the town of Goz Beida," it said.

"Resources are simply insufficient to meet the overwhelming needs," Serge Male, UNHCR's Chad representative, said in the statement, which highlighted problems with supplying water and firewood to displaced populations in the area.

---

Now another 100,000 refugees from Chad.

The real killer is that the global problems we face, including the refugee crisis, can all be managed. But we don't have the resources. Yet, we have $400+ billion to steal oil from Iraqis while creating an entirely new humanitarian crisis.

quote:

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Left is strangely silent on tragedy in Darfur
By Terry Glavin
Publish Date: September 28, 2006

You could call it a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

Almost by accident, Canada has found itself uniquely positioned among the United Nations’ member states to put in motion a multilateral initiative that would end an ongoing genocide in Africa that the UN calls the worst humanitarian crisis of the 21st century.

But we’re not doing it, and you could say it’s simply because Canadians aren’t forcing Ottawa to act. But that’s just the short answer.

At least 400,000 tribal people have already died in Sudan’s Darfur region, and perhaps three million people are cowering in refugee camps there. Canada’s strategically pivotal opportunity to stop this slow-motion genocide arises from a fortunate alignment of factors.

We’re a reputable middle power. We have sufficient influence at the UN to build a coalition of partners. We don’t have the baggage that comes with any colonial history in Africa. We already have the advantage of experience in Sudan. And we have the troops to spare: a 1,200-troop task force that can be rapidly deployed without drawing down our forces in Afghanistan.

That’s the way Senator Roméo Dallaire, the humanitarian and retired general, sees it. Dallaire was the UN peacekeeping commander who tried bravely, but in vain, to stop the 1994 Rwanda genocide that ended up in almost a million deaths.

Dallaire argues that Canada also happens to be burdened with a unique responsibility in Darfur: Canada was the principal author of the UN’s “responsibility to protect” doctrine. And that doctrine was adopted specifically for crises of the kind unfolding in Darfur.

Dallaire has emerged as an unlikely leader within a largely spontaneous, grassroots, Canada-wide effort—made up mainly of high-school kids and university students—that has been doing its best to convince Ottawa to take action on Darfur. The effort began more than two years ago, and it took persistent agitation to get the previous Liberal government to take Darfur seriously. But when Stephen Harper’s Conservatives took over last January, it was back to square one.

The New Democratic Party routinely voices its support for some kind of peacekeeper-type intervention in Darfur. But elsewhere on the Canadian left—among political activists, the “antiwar” movement, and social-justice advocates—the Darfur issue has failed to establish any real momentum......

Another reason for the left’s general abstention from Darfur activism is an irrational suspicion about the involvement of Jewish organizations in raising public awareness about the Darfur genocide, Apaak said. The Canadian Jewish Congress was a cosponsor of the September 17 “Day for Darfur” rallies across Canada, for instance.

It probably hasn’t helped that Sudanese president Omar Hassan al-Bashir is more than happy to exploit delusional theories about sinister Jewish manipulation of international crises. Bashir has explicitly objected to the proposed UN peacekeeping force in Darfur on the grounds that it is really just a cover to “redraw the region…in order to protect the Israelis, to guarantee the Israeli security”.

The silence on Canada’s left has also been noticed among the religious leadership of Canada’s Muslims, meanwhile. Mohamed Haroun, president of the Darfur Association of Canada, told Tarek Fatah in a May 3 Globe and Mail article that it’s simply because too many Muslims “do not consider us African Muslims as equals”. Most of the Darfuris who have died in the upheavals in Sudan are Muslims, but they also happen to be black.

---

And one more thing about Clooney, he has actually visited Darfur not just gone on marches.

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Petsy ]

quote:

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Why, I keep getting asked, have I suddenly decided to go after the left?

Never mind that nothing sudden has happened here, and never mind whether it’s really the “left” I’ve been going after. I reckon I owe everybody an explanation.

First, it’s what the Georgia Straight is for. This newspaper has a 40-year tradition of offering perspectives that don’t swim with the current, and it had already been rumpus-making for many years before my byline first appeared in these pages, the summer I got out of high school.

Second, it’s because I hold my side to a higher standard. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t be on this side.

So for fun, I thought I’d go back over those Chronicles columns that prompted the wildest responses. At the very least, I reckoned this would force me to consider whether or not what I wrote still stands up.

---

Terry Glavin's Year End Chronicle

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]

quote:

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If the cjc actually sponsored a rally well good for it. My recollection is that cjc was one of many sponsors. That said if someone chose not to attend because CJC was involved Im not sure what else to call that other than anti-Semitism.

---

The only one who suggested anyone didn't attend was the writer provided by peech. And such articles serve to make the issue a partisan one almost ensuring that a universal approach to the crisis is impossible. Possibly so they may go on self-righteous tirade when the issue is supposed to be about Africans as opposed to Israel. So what is it about really?

And further, not attending a rally organized by the CJC is no more anti-semitic than not attending a rally organized by NCCAR would make one anti-Arab. The accusation is shrill and hysterical and reeks of the partisan politics some would infuse into man made crisis of major proportions.

It is shameful, really.

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

At the rally in Toronto that was part of the Global day for Darfur this past September. A rally that was part of a network of events around the world we heard Justin Trudeau as the MC. We heard from the key note Senator and Retired General Romeo Dallaire. we saw Olivia Chow, Susan Kadis and other MPs, MPPs and City Councillors.

At the rally in Vancouver we heard from Mobina Jaffer amongst others.

So please tell me where was this just a CJC event?

Ok, I'll start:

quote:

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Employees cannot be paid their wages because Israel is holding 500 million shekels that belong to the Palestinians. And after all that we remain pure as the driven snow? There are no moral blemishes on our actions. There is no racial separation. There is no Apartheid. Its an invention of the enemies of Israel. Hooray for our brothers and sisters in the US! Your devotion is very much appreciated. You have truly removed a nasty stain from us. Now there can be an extra spring in our step as we confidently abuse the Palestinian population, using the most moral army in the world?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

The only one who suggested anyone didn't attend was the writer provided by peech. And such articles serve to make the issue a partisan one almost ensuring that a universal approach to the crisis is impossible. Possibly so they may go on self-righteous tirade when the issue is supposed to be about Africans as opposed to Israel. So what is it about really?

And further, not attending a rally organized by the CJC is no more anti-semitic than not attending a rally organized by NCCAR would make one anti-Arab. The accusation is shrill and hysterical and reeks of the partisan politics some would infuse into man made crisis of major proportions.

It is shameful, really.

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

---

Isn't it bad enough that not liking Israeli policy is antisemitic, according to you, but now, not liking the politics of CJC is antisemitic.

Anyway, back to the topic of pro-Zionists faking concern for Darfur for the sake of covering Israel's tracks:

Lets not single out Israel

quote:

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I then Googled "Schama and Darfur": nothing of relevance. "Schama and Chechnya": nothing at all. (By the way, how about U.S.-controlled Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Everything fine over there?) But now I have to be careful: perhaps Simon Schama has been an unrelenting and indefatigable activist for peace and justice in Palestine, in Darfur, in Chechnya, and in "many other places," as he puts it. But as far as I can see, his relentless activism hasn't left any trace on the World Wide Web (where his name yields more than 450,000 results). Perhaps the public activity of Schama – honored "Commander of the British Empire" – was done entirely in private.

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[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

I am shocked that their are those who really believe that any advocacy by the Jewish community to end the slaughter in Darfur by the Janjeweed is nothing more than a cover up by zionists.

When I see a coalition like those that have come together to form Save Darfur Canada. When I see MPs from all parties wear the green ribbon in the house of commons, when I see legislators from BC and Ontario wear the green ribbon to stand in solidarity with those in Darfur I see people of all faiths coming together to end the slaughter.

Now are their those who are shallow enough to only use Darfur as a deflection?

quote:

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Let's apply the Don't-Single-Out argument to the writers themselves. If, as they claim, evils should be addressed top-to-bottom, then Schama and Julius must either consider the proposed boycott the greatest evil on earth, or else they have already done their best to address all greater evils.

---

I never knew though that the groups who are leading the way like Warchild Canada, Stand Canada, CASTS, Kairos, Project Ploughshares, World Federalist Movement were all instruments of Zionist propaganda.

quote:

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:
I am shocked that their are those who really believe that any advocacy by the Jewish community to end the slaughter in Darfur by the Janjeweed is nothing more than a cover up by zionists.

---

I am not shocked at all.

I am not shocked because I can see the manipulation of the discourse right in this sentence, when you assert that this is an issue taken up by the "Jewish community," as a moralistic trope, when you know damn well, I am talking about Zionists.

Misrepresentation, hyperbole, and distortion seem to be the life blood of modern day Zionism.

Its digusting really, and the more I see it the more it disgusts me.

Give me Ben Gurion, at least he wasn't a liar.

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

The coalition is a great group of organizations with differing views on many issues.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cueball:

I am not shocked because I can see the manipulation of the discourse right in this sentence, when you assert that this is an issue taken up by the "Jewish community," as a moralistic trope, when you know damn well, I am talking about Zionists.

Misrepresentation, hyperbole, and distortion seem to be the life blood of modern day Zionism.
[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

---

Well since CJC, UJA Federations across Canada, Reform Movement, Conservative Movement, Orthodox Movement and B'Nai Brith are all and have all been involved in advocacy from organizing Passover Petitions, to assisting with donation of medical supplies, to letter writing campaigns, to day of prayer from pulpit and also sponsoring events re Darfur like the one in Hamilton or the ride to end genocide stop in Toronto.

I guess I should just stop any advocacy work on Darfur that I am doing since as you rightly point out the groups that I have liaised with do not want to do good rather it is a ploy

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

Not all groups that are the organized community are bad. not all should be shunned because of their work on Darfur.

If ACJC wants to join SDC great

I understand resentment and even anger towards many that i mentioned but why should Israel advocacy prevent other advocacy?

Or should all groups be simply single focus?

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]

This bait and switch of the topic originally by Peech is unfair and disengenuous and not because of the partisan rhetoric trying to call the "left" anti-Semitic but because it trivializes the serious nature of the topic, and because of this it is slightly trollish bait IMO.

JPJ asked:

Why is it that the western world does not care about what is happening in Darfur?

Unfair broad generalization and as such is not true.

Why is it that we allow Russia and China to use their veto to prevent a sizable force being sent into Darfur to end the slaughter?

How are we to force them not to use their veto? Why is their veto our responsibility to look after? Whomever our means and we is not defined, so I am assuming you mean the western world, not us here at babble.

Why is it that many Canadians only heard of Darfur when Paul Martin tried to bribe David Kilgour to stay as a Liberal before the budget vote?

Because they are trying to survive their lives in this world too perhaps?

Why is it that Prime Minsiter Harper has not re-appointed the special envoys to Darfur?

Because Harper perhaps has too much to do to try and pretend to govern Canada, let alone have a foreign policy to mismanage other than Afghanistan. Can you see Peter MacKay dealing with 2 things related to social problems and issues?

Why is it that the world does not care?

That is another broad generalization that is not true. The fact is everyONE has their own personal care, if we all cared about everything in the world all the time nothing would be achieved. There is so much going on in the world that is broken and needs fixing, that it overwhelms. So people get specialized in their caring and what they do to help.

Why is it that groups...come together and plan rallies and garner media and political attention for a while then everyone forgets?

Because they/we have to live life and look after personal responsibilities at home and in our own country and community too. Also, because they/we are not continually active does not mean the caring is not there.

well we all must start working together to end the slaughter, rape and violence in Darfur.

“We all”, perhaps do not have the time, or even the resources, to split ourselves thinly amongst the ending of all the slaughter, rape and violence in the world. Or perhaps even some have decided to attack these issues at the source point to try and affect long- term permanent solutions, as opposed to continual band aid ones.

edited to fix formatting and to add: regarding the snipes at Harper/Peter M, please not start thread drift over them.

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: remind ]

quote:

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:
I am very glad that my work has been a waste of time Cueball.

---

Actually, that makes me very sad. But then it is impossible to believe that you are sincere in your concerns while the outstanding concerns regarding Iaraeli Aprtheid remain unadressed. Your sincerity will always be in question, as long as you vocally support Apartheid in Israel.

In fact the creation of an umbrella organization that allows organization that support Apertheid policies is highly questionable. Those organizations should be boycotted, no matter what their stand on other issues.

I urge you to take this position if you attend meetings of the unbrella organization. Positions which appear inconsistent, taint the efforts of the whole project.

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

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Our Executive Committee

Amnesty International Canada
Canadian Jewish Congress
Canadians Against Slavery and Torture in Sudan (CASTS)
Coalition montréalaise pour le Darfour / Montreal Coalition for Darfur
Canadian Students for Darfur (CSFDarfur)
Darfur Association of Canada
KAIROS: Ecumenical Justice Initiatives
Muslim Canadian Congress
Never Again International - Canada
Project Equity
Students Helping Others Understand Tolerance (SHOUT)
Students Taking Action Now: Darfur (STAND) Canada
World Federalist Movement of Canada

National Member Organizations

Armenian National Committee of Canada
B'nai Brith Canada
Canadian Auto Workers
Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture
Canadian Council for International Co-operation
Canadian Council for Reform Judaism
Canadian Friends of Sudan
Canadian Jewish Congress
Canadian Labor Congress
Canadian Physicians for Aid and Relief
Canadians for Aid in Southern Sudan
Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
Human Rights Watch
Japanese Canadian Culture Centre
Journalists for Human Rights
Muslim Canadian Union
National Association of Seadogs Canada
North South Institute
Primate's World Relief and Development Plan (Anglican Church of Canada)
Project Ploughshares
Save Women – Sudan
Sikhs Against Genocide
Somali Canadian National Council
Sudanese Canadian Human Rights Organization
TRIP (Toronto Residence in Partnership)
United Church of Canada
United Nations Association in Canada
Ve’ahavta

Regional Member Organizations

Freedom Quest- Calgary
Hillel Toronto
Holocaust Centre of Toronto
Montreal Institute for Genocide and Human Rights Studies
Redemptorists of the Edmonton-Toronto Province.
South Asians of Ontario
Vietnamese Association of North York

---

This is an important issue, and it should not be "politicized." In particular the unions should be conteacted as CUPE has called for a boycott.

By the way is there any reason that "Labour" in Canadian Labour Congress is spelled in the US fashion, in the copy I clipped from the Save Darfur Web site?

[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

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Thousands rallied on September 17 in a “Global Day for Darfur” to call attention to a catastrophe created by civil war in the western part of Sudan.

Since 2003, more than 200,000 Darfuris have died and more than 2 million have been displaced as militias backed by the Sudanese government responded to a local rebellion with murder, rape and scorched-earth policies.

But the central demand of the September 17 rallies was not a call for stepped-up aid to the victims, even though the relief supplies currently reaching them meet only two-thirds of the “minimum daily level,” according to the United Nations.

Instead, the urgent focus at the rallies was on sending 20,000 NATO/UN troops to occupy the region. “The world must act...now because time is not on our side,” former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright told a crowd of 20,000 gathered in New York’s Central Park.

The plan being put forward by supporters of intervention doesn’t call for U.S. troops. But the U.S. would be deeply involved behind the scenes, providing logistics and support for the NATO/UN “peacekeepers,” just as it does now for a lightly armed African Union (AU) force of 7,000 that currently patrols the refugee camps in Darfur.

There is a heightened sense of urgency around the issue right now because the mandate for the AU troops was set to expire September 30, and Sudan’s President Umar al-Bashir still refuses to approve the entry of UN troops.

Oil-rich southern Sudan already has a UN peacekeeping force of 10,000 following a 2005 peace agreement that ended two decades of a separate conflict. Bashir’s nerve to resist further intervention has been buoyed by high oil revenues, combined with setbacks for the U.S. and Israel in the Middle East. But the AU last week defused the immediate crisis by extending its troop commitment to the end of the year.

As this new deadline approaches, activists need to rethink the call for stepped-up military intervention. No one should forget the brutal record of past U.S. interventions, ignore the strong possibility that a UN force would compound the catastrophe in Darfur, or make the mistake of thinking that the U.S. will ever put the welfare of Darfuris above its main objective in the region - muscling out potential rivals such as China in a scramble for oil and other resources.

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quote:

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The incurious reporting that has reduced the war to a simple morality tale, an African "Lord of the Rings," equates Janjaweed with Arab, and especially Abbala. But only a minority of Darfur's 300,000 or so Abbala have joined the 20,000 to 30,000 Janjaweed. Most have refused to contribute soldiers, well aware that good relations with their non-Arab neighbors are more important than an alliance with an uncaring government hundreds of miles away.

Yet they have been collectively stigmatized for the crimes of the Janjaweed and their suffering has been ignored. Few journalists have written about them, or listened to them -- myself included.

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quote:

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Relief workers who voice their concerns to the U.N. leadership meet with blank stares -- and silence. "We'd bring up the Arabs and mention how they might be suffering and a hush would come over the room," said an aid worker based in El Fasher, the capital of North Darfur state. "A few months ago, I asked U.N. human rights monitors how many cases of abuse by rebels against Arabs they'd heard of. They said they'd never investigated a single incident of violence against Arabs."

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Why is it that many are cynical about the use of UN military intervention?

Why is it that such intervention is often tied to US designs for "regime change"?

quote:

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The Janjaweed are a militia drawn from Darfurian and Chadian Arab-speaking tribes that became notorious for massacre, rape and forced displacement in 2003-2004.

The Janjaweed first emerged in 1988 after Chadian President Hissène Habré, backed by France and the United States, defeated the Libyan army, thereby ending Col. Muammar al-Gaddafi’s territorial designs on Chad. Libya’s Chadian protégé, Acheickh Ibn Omer Saeed, retreated with his Arab militia forces to Darfur, where they were hosted by Sheikh Musa Hilal, the newly-elevated chief of the Mahamid Rizeigat Arabs of north Darfur. Hilal’s tribesmen had earlier smuggled Libyan weapons to Ibn Omer’s forces. A French-Chadian incursion destroyed Ibn Omer’s camp, but his weapons remained with his Mahamid hosts, along with an Arab supremacist ideology associated with the Libyan-sponsored ‘Arab Reunion’.

Throughout the 1990s, the Janjaweed were an amalgam of Chadian and Darfurian "Arab" militia, tolerated by the Sudan Government, pursuing local agendas of controlling land. The majority of Darfur’s Arabs, the Baggara confederation, were and remain uninvolved in the war. In 1999-2000, faced with threats of insurgencies in Western and Northern Darfur, Khartoum’s security armed the Janjaweed forces. When the insurgency escalated in February 2003, spearheaded by the Sudan Liberation Movement, and the Justice and Equality Movement, the Sudanese Government responded by utilizing the Janjaweed as its main counter-insurgency force. Protracting the militia to attack and recover the rebel held areas of Darfur, the Janjaweed however conducted a scorched earth campaign of mass atrocity targeting civilians in the region of Darfur. A large number of world leaders and countries have declared the Janjaweed killings in Darfur to be genocide, since they have killed an estimated 100,000 civilians in the last three years. The U.S. State Department and others in 2004 named leading Janjaweed commanders including Musa Hilal as suspected genocide criminals. The UN Security Council called for the Janjaweed to be disarmed.

By early 2006, many Janjaweed had been absorbed into the Sudan Armed Forces including the Popular Defence Forces and Border Guards. Meanwhile, the Janjaweed expanded to include some Arab-speaking tribes in eastern Darfur, not historically associated with the original Janjaweed. Chadian "Arabs" were also increasingly active in seeking to reestablish a political base in Chad, as part of the Unified Forces for a Democratic Change (FUC) coalition.

Musa Hilal, who heads a small but powerful Darfurian "Arab" tribe [5], is suspected by the US State Department of being a leader of the Janjaweed BBC. The New Yorker quotes him: " I am a tribal leader. ... The government call to arms is carried out through the tribal leaders." He admits recruiting but denies being in the military chain of command, according to Human Rights Watch.

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quote:

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Here is the list of the composite organization of the Save Darfur Canada umbrella organization. Anyone who has contact with any of these organizations should send letters of inquirey about the wisdom of allowing organization that support Israeli Apartheid to be a constituent member, in particular B'nat Brith Canada, the Canadian Jewish Congress and Hillel Toronto.

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Or are Darfur's 300,000 Arabs to be like the Palestinians 60 years ago, a voiceless entity whose concerns do not merit consideration while the great powers re-draw the maps?

quote:

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DARFUR

Darfur: Words are not enough

As the crisis spreads, Canada must urgently press the UN to work with Chad to protect civilians in the eastern part of the country, by Alex Neve
December 22, 2006

Canada and the world watched in anguish, for four years, as a devastating human rights crisis ravaged the Darfur region of Sudan; watched as 250,000 people were killed, countless numbers of women raped, and more than 2 million people forced to flee their homes.

Now, as the Darfur crisis spreads into Chad, anguish must give way to action. Canada must urgently press the UN Security Council to work with the Chadian government to provide security and protection to civilians in eastern Chad.

The world's anguish about Darfur has been matched with a potent combination of inability and unwillingness to take meaningful action to end the crisis. Weeks have turned into months and years and Darfur is no safer.

People cannot return to their homes. The African Union has sent troops, the UN has passed resolutions, peace agreements have been signed, and a UN force is ready to go in if the Sudanese government gives its consent.

Efforts and good intentions, yes but no decisive and forceful action.

Key players, including China, Russia and the nations of the Arab League have not put real pressure on Sudan.

Without that pressure, the government in Khartoum will not rein in the murderous Janjaweed militia, responsible for the vast majority of the human rights violations. The crisis continues and only deepens.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ohara:
Firstly its your words "Israel apartheid' and I would venture to guess that many many people including the groups listed do not feel as you do. Hence your call is one of discrimination and ought not be permitted on babble, in my view.

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quote:

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UN must send troops to Darfur: Romeo Dallaire

A peace agreement in Darfur is a major step towards ending a conflict responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. But retired Canadian general Romeo Dallaire said a United Nations peacekeeping force is crucial to ensure the violence stops.

"These people are dying now and they need us now, not next year," Dallaire told CTV's Mike Duffy Live Friday.

Decades of low-level tribal clashes over land and water in Darfur erupted into large-scale violence in early 2003. Rebels took up arms against the Sudanese government, citing discrimination against Darfur's black residents.

The government responded by unleashing pro-government militias, allegedly including the Janjaweed -- ethnic Arab militia accused of the systematic killing and rape of Darfur's black residents.

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[ 08 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]

In Rwanda, violence didn't erupt because of a lack of peacekeepers. It erupted because the so-called "peace process" was a sham that was designed to fail. Ten years after he "liberated" Rwanda US-puppet Paul Kagame still rules with absolute impunity. The fact that he promptly promptly launched a war that slaughtered MILLIONS in the Congo went largely unnoticed by the small army of self-righteous westerners who claimed such concern about the plight of Africans.

Now, once again, a country that just HAPPENS to have a lot of oil that Americans aren't getting is being forced by the US into a "peace process" while the world is being force-fed horror stories about the evils of their government. Rarely, if ever, does anyone mention the US-backed forces that the pro-government are fighting. In fact, if you believe most news stories, terrible things are happening in Darfur for no other reason than evil men with camels just enjoy being evil and doing terrible things.

quote:

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Originally posted by Peech:
Romeo D'Allaire says send troops to Darfur

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Unionist says, send "Senator" Dallaire to Darfur. For keeps.

I am sick and tired of this Ignatieff supporter who is still making money off his breast-beating about the Rwandan tragedy.

quote:

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Mess you just dont get it. If the CJC planned a rally and people refused to attend because it was a "CJC" rally that IS antisemitic.

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And from what I am hearing from members in all 3 that I talk to they want to become more involved in Darfur advocacy.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Is this thread on Darfur the thread that we can discuss apartheid Israel?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Well, that ok, but the main thing is not to talk about Gaza.

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quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:
Unionist says, send "Senator" Dallaire to Darfur. For keeps.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Briguy:
How long until Darfur moves from being the "look over there instead!" cause celebre of the Zionist crowd?

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quote:

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:
I think that more unions should become members of SDC. I hope that locals like Cupe 79, osstf 12, cupe 416 just to name a few will become more involved in Darfur advocacy.

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Do people seriously think they are involved solely because they're looking for a distraction from Palestine? Or maybe, just maybe, could it be because they happen to know a little thing or two about genocide.

But really, great job everyone involved in completely derailing johnpauljones's thread on an important issue in order to promote your agendas vis-a-vis Israel

Anyway, a good editorial in the Toronto Star yesterday from Students Taking Action Now: Darfur:

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Never again means never again

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By the way is there any reason that "Labour" in Canadian Labour Congress is spelled in the US fashion, in the copy I clipped from the Save Darfur Web site?

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Originally posted by Briguy:
How long until Darfur moves from being the "look over there instead!" cause celebre of the Zionist crowd?

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Last week, General Hillier stated that Canada had no capacity to provide any military assistance in Darfur period. Canada has come full circle since Vimy from providing colonial cannon fodder for the British Empire to providing colonial cannon fodder for the wannabe American one.

The Sudanese government has catagorically rejected any military intervention, threatening a wider conflict targeting western troops. On the other hand, Chad has requested western military assistance.

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Originally posted by Petsy:
Unbelievable!! People are raped and slaughtered in Darfur...

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Originally posted by Is this it?:
Anyone remember the late 80s when Iraqi soldiers were accused of murdering babies in incubators? Remember how that wasn't true? Remember Amnesty International falling for the story? Anyone remember?

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Until the rains return to that part of Africa and nutrients returned to the soil, there is no future and we might as well begin resettling them. That would also remove them, all of them, from the violence. All the problems solved through resettling. So how many?

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Originally posted by Petsy:
Unbelievable!! People are raped and slaughtered in Darfur and all you can do is point fingers at Zionists.

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I reject the notion that leftists are weak on Darfur. Just because some on the left doubt that a full-scale invasion of Somalia is going to help (as opposed to meaningful aid and some form of environmental reconstruction) doesn't mean they're ignoring the issue. It means they have a different solution, maybe even one that could work absent or alongside a military solution.

Discussion of Darfur in the context of other worldly issues is only helpful if it's not done as some sort of blame game. Unless, of course, the finger is being pointed at those actually to blame for the situation (local warlords, environmental nay-sayers, weapons dealers, etc.).

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Briguy ]

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Originally posted by Free_Radical:

So . . . you're saying that accounts of rape and murder in Darfur are not true and are instead just made-up?

Also, Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, not the "late 80s".

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Thanks for correcting the dates. The Iraq War was in 1990. It was in 1990 that the US hired Hill and Knowlton to create support for a war against Iraq which they did by manufacturing stories of gruseome human rights abuses. Stories that groups like Amnesty International spread as fact only to be proven wrong after the war had started. That happened in 1990.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Is this it? ]

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Originally posted by Free_Radical:

Or perhaps more important to ask, is this the thread that so-called "progressives" can make light of genocide?

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I have said this before, and I will say it again, what Israel is doing in Gaza is not genocide. Things may change, and the conditions are in place for one to happen, but at this time it is not genocide. It is merely mass ethnic cleansing.

Genocide, however, is latent in the conditions.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
I have said this before, and I will say it again, what Israel is doing in Gaza is not genocide.

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Originally posted by Free_Radical:
Oh, right, you're still on your childish mission to derail the thread

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I made this point on this thread here: Rabin minister: Indeed there is apartheid in Israel, where an former Rabin cabinet minister details aspect fo Israeli Apartheid.

Low an behold, 5 minutes after I made the point that Israeli apologists never talk about Darfur unless someone starts talking about Israeli abuse of Palestinians, this thread made its appearance on the board.

JPJ made my point for me.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

The title of this thread declares that "genocide" is taking place in Darfur. The UN's International Commission of Inquiry into Darfur has declared that this is not the case: "
The Commission concluded that the Government of the Sudan has not pursued a policy of genocide."

Dr. Mercedes Tady with Medcecins Sans Fronteirs says, ""I don't think that we should be using the word 'genocide' to describe this conflict. Not at all."

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Originally posted by Michelle:
I know. I just about had a conniption laughing over that yesterday morning.

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[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Low an behold, 5 minutes after I made the point that Israeli apologists never talk about Darfur unless someone starts talking about Israeli abuse of Palestinians, this thread made its appearance on the board.

JPJ made my point for me.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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I am so glad I have graduated to the position of Israeli apoligist.

I am more of a Darfur advocate myself.

I know I have posted on many threads on the Darfur issue.

So in a quick research I have found 3 that I have started not counting close to 40 other threads with either Darfur or Sudan in the Subject of which I have posted on many.

Now is this enough action? NO!!!

24 may 2005 1 dead, 9 wounded at Darfur Camp UN Confirms

here is one about CJC assisting Walter Arbib in donating of close to $500,000 of medical supplies to Darfur. yes same Arbib that has donated medical supplies to Indonesia, Pakistan and the Palestinian Authority

Jewish Congress raises awareness on Darfur from april 2006

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:

I am so glad I have graduated to the position of Israeli apoligist.

I am more of a Darfur advocate myself.

Then again easier to lump us all in together

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The tradition here is that Moderators are actively engaged in discussion and express their own political take on issues. This has been the case since Audra was here, and she was very active in discussion regardign feminism, and had no compunction about expressing her views.

In fact, Michelle is generally less invasive.

The point remains, what are you going to do about it? Why don't we talk specifics? How many African refugees should Canada take? Britain? The US? Russia?

Until the rains return to that part of Africa and nutrients returned to the soil, there is no future and we might as well begin resettling them. That would also remove them, all of them, from the violence. All the problems solved through resettling. So how many?

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:

24 may 2005 1 dead, 9 wounded at Darfur Camp UN Confirms

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An average day in terms of Gaza and the west bank.

But this is instructive in itself.

There is the difference that Sudan has permited some level of UN involvement, while on the other hand Israel has categorically denied any UN presence whatsoever, even as observers.

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Originally posted by Cueball:

The tradition here is that Moderators are actively engaged in discussion and express their own political take on issues. This has been the case since Audra was here, and she was very active in discussion regardign feminism, and had no compunction about expressing her views.

In fact, Michelle is generally less invasive.

Primarily the moderator function, here, is one of maintaining a civil tenor, not one of being politically neutral.

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Originally posted by Peech:

Really? Exactly why, lately I have had to remind myself that you were actually a "moderator."

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:

24 may 2005 1 dead, 9 wounded at Darfur Camp UN Confirms

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An average day in terms of Gaza and the west bank.

But this is instructive in itself.

There is the difference that Sudan has permited some level of UN involvement, while on the other hand Israel has categorically denied any UN presence whatsoever, even as observers.

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Why, JPJ, should Sudan permit a UN force in its sovereign, and internationally recognized territory, while Israel refuses such a presence, even in territories, which it has no sovereignty?

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Originally posted by Cueball:

Why, JPJ, should Sudan permit a UN force in its sovereign, and internationally recognized territory, while Israel refuses such a presence, even in territories, which it has no sovereignty?

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Last time I checked and afterall according to some i am nothing more than an apologist here is my answer.

400,000 Palestinian men women and children have not been slaughtered in the last 2 years like those the 400,000 slaughtered by the Janjeweed in Darfur

1.5 million palestinian men women and children have not been displaced over the last 2 years the Janjaweed did in Darfur

You will obviously recall that Mike Pearson won a little award called a Nobel Peace Prize for UNEF in '56, UN missions in Golan since at least late '60s and many more UN Missions.

How many UN missions in Darfur? 0

so it is time for at least 1 UN mission in Darfur

but no we should do nothing to help the Darfurians.

As far as refugees go. I say that Canada should take in at least 100,000 as a minimum. provide immediate citizenship for the refugees etc.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: johnpauljones ]

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Originally posted by johnpauljones:
Last time I checked and afterall according to some i am nothing more than an apologist here is my answer.

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Well, as you never answered, my answers to the questions you asked,I am hesitant to even bother with you and your whining of "poor me".

Interestingly, I had not noticed what some have pointed out, but I will for sure nowadays do so, as your questions were poor and had huge presumptive generalization instead of content. All of which actually left me wondering why you even asked them. Perhaps that is why?

So, I will look forward to your response to my answers to your questions earlier in the thread. Unless of course, you are not serious in wanting to know what others think about the questions you asked, and were only trying to get digs in at others and/or deflect away from the topic of Israel, as others have suggested?

I think, I am going to have to start playing closer attention to the politics on this board and between the factions in Canada it represents.

Now where did you get your 400k numbers from other than the Glavin article, as he did not support his numbers either, and why are you over looking what other orgs have said about Darfur not having that many?

And while on the Glavin note, I would really like to know who he meant by his accusations against those on the left? As he specifcally stated he was NOT referencing the NDP with his comments. Is he speaking about the Green Party left? The CAP? Who?

400,000 Palestinian men women and children have not been slaughtered in the last 2 years like those the 400,000 slaughtered by the Janjeweed in Darfur

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As far as refugees go. I say that Canada should take in at least 100,000 as a minimum. provide immediate citizenship for the refugees etc.

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100,000 to Canada, provided with immediate citizenship I think not, and that is an outrageous proposal IMO. Are you saying this to take the conversation flow in another direction or something? As I cannot believe that anyone would seriously suggest immediate citizenship.

edited for formatting

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: remind ]

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Originally posted by remind:
[QB]Now where did you get your 400k numbers from other than the Glavin article, as he did not support his numbers either, and why are you over looking what other orgs have said about Darfur not having that many?

And while on the Glavin note, I would really like to know who he meant by his accusations against those on the left? As he specifcally stated he was NOT referencing the NDP with his comments. Is he speaking about the Green Party left? The CAP? Who?g

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Go ask him:

Terry Glavin's Blogg

Speaking of him, thanks for "reminding" me (pun intended):

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Seventh offence: Providing space for Clement Apaak of Canadian Students for Darfur to observe a disturbing indifference to the Darfur genocide within Canada’s “activist” left

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From Terry Glavin's Year End Chronicles

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Okay, well I'm not going to apologize for being partisan on most issues we talk about on babble - there is certainly no requirement for moderators here to be politically neutral or not to participate in discussions.

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It's not (just) about your inability to contain your overly zealous bias or agenda, which I submit with all due respect, is not proper for a moderator,
but it's about your taunting, trolling, disrespecting, berating and bullying of other posters....(as evidenced in not just this thread but your shameless performance in This One).
In other words conduct which if done by anyone else (if their politics were disagreeable to you) would be bannable!

Quite frankly you do owe an apology to JPJ, Petsky and O'Hara.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]

Too bad Glavin makes such broad generalizations in the first place. It is very much blanket accusing of the left. For myself, I am pretty much sick of people, and the media, spuriously trashing the great unknown left and the NDP.

Just what in fuck have the other national parties done lately for Canada and Canadians? hell I won't even limit it too lately, how about ever? Not 1 fucking thing. If they passed progressive legislation for Canadians it was because they were forced to.

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Originally posted by Peech:
[QB]It's not (just) about your inability to contain your overly zealous bias or agenda, which I submit with all due respect, is not proper for a moderator,

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I'm so glad you've decided what is "proper" for a moderator here and what isn't. Fortunately, you don't get to write my job description. I'm sure I would find it pretty boring running the New And Improved Israel Can Do No Wrong And Everyone Who Criticizes Israel Is An Anti-Semite And Will Be Banned Discussion Forum.

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but it's about your taunting, trolling, disrespecting, berating and bullying of other posters....(as evidenced in not just this thread but your shameless performance in This One). In other words conduct which if done by anyone else (if their politics were disagreeable to you) would be bannable!

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Yes, shameless indeed. I feel no shame whatsoever. The only comment I wrote that might have been ill-considered is the "head out of ass" remark (which I also tried to turn into a bit of a joke, but you're probably right, I went a little too far). Certainly there have been lots of people who have said that and not been banned, and I was no more aggressive than you and your pals here during these discussions.

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Quite frankly you do owe an apology to JPJ, Petsky and O'Hara.

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When pigs fly. I owe no one an apology for anything except maybe the head out of ass comment. Peech, I'm so sorry I told you (or was it Petsy?) that I wasn't going to ask you to pull your head out of your ass because I was too polite to do so, and then winked at the end of the statement. It was very, very wrong of me to do, and certainly there has never, ever been anything so terrible written by anyone else on babble, not ever, and certainly anyone who writes such a terrible, terrible thing should be banned forever and a day.

Oh wait, actually, I do owe another apology. I apologize to everyone else for not being able to resist responding to this post. I always tell everyone else to take it to private messages or e-mail and quit derailing threads with this and now look what I'm doing. I often ignore complaints like this, but in this case I felt I wanted to answer public complaints about my job performance publicly since they were made in both this thread and the other one, and I figure there will be no rest until I respond.

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
What would you have done about Darfur?

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Mea culpa. oldgoat can suspend my account for the evening.

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In discussions forums, over the years,I have found, when you start to see some complain about the strong voices on issues such as: Israel USA relations,USA's foreign policies, and Israels actions against Palestinians, they are doing so not only to deflect away from the topic, but to try and shut down forums, and have people banned or barred from the sites.