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Author Topic: Abortions and violence against women linked
N.Beltov
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posted 07 March 2005 04:09 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In the most recent Canadian Medical Association Journal there are a couple of articles that deal with the characteristics of women undergoing repeat induced abortions.

The articles are as follows for those who would like to read them for themselves (CMAJ, March 1, 2005; 172 (5)):

Characteristics of women undergoing repeat induced abortions, Fisher et al

and...

“Violence and Abortions: What’s a Doctor to do?” Phillips, Susan P.


The first article notes that “a history of physical or sexual abuse was associated with repeat induced abortion. Presentation for repeat abortion may be an important indication to screen for a current or past history of relationship violence and sexual abuse”.

Women, it seems, don’t want to have (additional) children when they themselves, much less their children, are at risk for physical or sexual abuse. “[W]omen often seek abortions as a last resort, when personal circumstances preclude safe and positive parenting”.

The second article is very sobering and disturbing. “I would suggest that physicians, particularly those in family practice, emergency medicine and obstetrics and gynecology, screen all women for what could be defined as an epidemic.”

“Fisher and colleagues should be applauded for listening to the stories of women requesting abortions. Their careful research identifies an increased level of exposure to violence among women seeking repeat abortions and reminds us of the extent of victimization among our female patients.”

These women’s stories are marked “by sadness more than by irresponsibility”. Now doesn’t that just phucking break your heart? And it puts a whole new light on anti-abortionists, doesn't it?

[ 07 March 2005: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Loretta
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posted 07 March 2005 10:59 PM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The feminist forum is to:

quote:
Discuss feminist issues from a pro-feminist point of view.

I don't see how your post complies with that.


From: The West Kootenays of BC | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 07 March 2005 11:03 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Loretta, could you point out exactly what it is you have a problem with?
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Loretta
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posted 07 March 2005 11:10 PM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The articles are certainly worth discussing but I read this quote:

[QUOTE]
These women’s stories are marked “by sadness more than by irresponsibility”. Now doesn’t that just phucking break your heart?
[QUOTE]

as heavy with sarcasm belittling the difficulty faced by women dealing with an untimely pregnancy.


From: The West Kootenays of BC | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Left Wing Zealot
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posted 08 March 2005 12:18 AM      Profile for Left Wing Zealot     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The people responsible for this violence should be prosecuted. There is nothing sicker than picking on helpless people. Even if the victims don't want a prosecution the Crown should prosecute anyway.

People should not be allowed to bully those weaker than them, mentally or physically.


From: Iqualit, Nunavut | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 08 March 2005 01:23 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Loretta:
The articles are certainly worth discussing but I read this quote:

[QUOTE]
These women’s stories are marked “by sadness more than by irresponsibility”. Now doesn’t that just phucking break your heart?
[QUOTE]

as heavy with sarcasm belittling the difficulty faced by women dealing with an untimely pregnancy.



So it's because of a line in one of the links that you think the original post doesn't comply with the feminist forum rules?


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 08 March 2005 07:38 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Loretta, I think you are mistaking N.Beltov's intention. I am sure that the lines you quoted are not sarcastic but deeply sincere, and that NB altered the spelling of the f-word as a way of softening it.

And violence as a significant factor in women's decisions to seek repeat abortions is an important complicating issue indeed.

[ 08 March 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 08 March 2005 10:21 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
skdadl: NB altered the spelling of the f-word as a way of softening it.

Yup. Also, I wasn't sure if babble had some automated software that would censor such words automatically (like some other web sites).

One of the articles drew attention to the claim, typically made by anti-abortionists, that it is used as a method of contraception by "irresponsible" women. There is evidence from this research to suggest that women that are the victim of violence, either directly or as witnesses to violence against their current children, develop a kind of "demoralization" from all this violence. They "give up" and are more likely to skip the use of their contraceptive and become pregnant.

I find it difficult to read such data without getting really angry or really sad or both. And it shames me about my fellow males.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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posted 08 March 2005 10:55 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Controlling and violent men usually also control the family finances. Many of the women who responded to these studies noted the pill was too expensive for them. Access to birth control may be being withheld by the partner, which would account for many women having skipped the pills. There are still some misguided men out there who consider birth control of any kind an insult to them.
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Loretta
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posted 08 March 2005 11:32 PM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
N. Beltov:

I originally read your post as mocking the articles that make a link between those who are suffering family violence and the those who seek out more than one abortion. Upon a second reading, I still read the original post that way although obviously that wasn't your intent (because of what you say and how others have interpreted your post). I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

I fully agree that anti-abortion groups misinterpret women's situations concerning abortion. They are rather heartless with respect to those who are vulnerable.


From: The West Kootenays of BC | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 14 July 2005 06:27 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A bump for EFA.
From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
EFA
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posted 14 July 2005 06:37 PM      Profile for EFA        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks. I've only scanned these but I'm still really curious as to how the researchers came to such a conclusion.

Drift ... I respect the pro-lifers who are consistent more than I do the ones who waffle. It seems hypocritical to me to declare that all life is precious but then to add the rider 'except for that created by rape or incest.'

I think the pro-lifers are pretty much all nuts, anyway, but I have my doubts about some of the pro-choicers too, in particular:

- I don't see a need for third trimester abortions except in the most bizarre of circumstances.

- I think we need to acknowlege the emotional harm that abortion causes young women.

- I think it's a mistake to shut men out of these decisions.

For myself, I don't think life is precious. If it were, the Americans wouldn't have bombed the shit out of Iraq, right? Right?


From: Victoria, BC | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
flower
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posted 14 July 2005 06:40 PM      Profile for flower     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 14 July 2005: Message edited by: flower ]


From: victoria,b.c. | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 14 July 2005 06:42 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a favour to EFA, and any others that are interested, to help find this thread.
From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 14 July 2005 08:59 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Utterly tragic that anyone has to live with abuse.
From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 14 July 2005 09:38 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Hailey: Utterly tragic that anyone has to live with abuse.

Abuse is tragic because of the terrible harm it does. I don't understand what you mean by "has to live with abuse". Who is compelled to live with abuse? I was under the impression that many people are compelled to report abuse. People such as medical staff at hospitals, caregivers of children in general and so on. Or is that just a somewhat clumsy expression of yours? Perhaps you intended to convey something else...?

From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 14 July 2005 09:48 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was a clumsy expression. I'm saddened that anyone's life is inclusive of abuse. Nobody HAS to live that way they have their own individual choices to make and our society needs to also constantly examine how we can better contribute to people making decisions that move them away from abuse.
From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 14 July 2005 10:07 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry to nitpick but I've already had to clear up mis-communication or crossed wires in this thread.
From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged

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