[ 03 April 2007: Message edited by: IgnoramusMaximus ]

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Why don't we just annex Afghanistan and have done with it?

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Ottawa poised to make decision on aging army tanks
Last Updated: Tuesday, April 3, 2007 | 9:40 PM ET
CBC News

The federal government will soon decide the fate of the army's fleet of aging Leopard tanks, some of which are being used by Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan.

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Leslie said the government has to decide whether to replace the vehicles, and if so, what to purchase in their place.

One option is to lease 20 state-of-the-art German tanks, known as Leopard A6Ms. Media reports on Tuesday suggest that option is being seriously considered by the government.
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{O'Connor:}
"When I was in the army many years ago, we never thought of putting armour all around the cab of the truck. We now have 85 trucks on order with armoured cabs.

"We are armouring everything and we are trying to protect the lives of our soldiers."

O'Connor said the army is continuing to increase the use of armoured vehicles in Afghanistan: "You'll notice in the last six months that the number of casualties has gone down. Tanks are very important."

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Tanks are very important: But exactly what have they accomplished in Afghanistan? How many of their own tanks have the Germans deployed in Afghanistan? Other NATO forces and their tank force? How many tanks did the Soviets have and how many did they abandon on the fields of Afghanistan?

Glub glub glub; money and our name being poured into the sands of Afghanistan.

[ 03 April 2007: Message edited by: siren ]

kinda like this....
Picture a tank... With the words

" This tank brought to you by SHELL OIL"

writen on the side....

Or maybe Mc Donalds....

Or even better ... we could have tank teams... they would have to go out and get sponcers... just like NASCAR....

[ 03 April 2007: Message edited by: trippie ]

The total irrecoverable personnel losses of the Soviet Armed Forces, frontier and internal security troops came to 14,453. Soviet Army formations, units and HQ elements lost 13,833, KGB sub units lost 572, MVD formations lost 28 and other ministries and departments lost 20 men. During this period 417 servicemen were missing in action or taken prisoner; 119 of these were later freed, of whom 97 returned to the USSR and 22 went to other countries.

There were 469,685 sick and wounded, of whom 53,753 or 11.44%, were wounded, injured or sustained concussion and 415,932 (88.56%) fell sick. A high proportion of casualties were those who fell ill. This was because of local climatic and sanitary conditions, which were such that acute infections spread rapidly among the troops. There were 115,308 cases of infectious hepatitis, 31,080 of typhoid fever and 140,665 of other diseases. Of the 11,654 who were discharged from the army after being wounded, maimed or contracting serious diseases, 92%, or 10,751 men were left disabled.[21]

Remains of Soviet trucks in Kandahar, Afghanistan, 2002.Material losses were as follows:

118 jet aircraft
333 helicopters
147 main battle tanks
1,314 IFV/APCs
433 artillery and mortars
1,138 radio sets and command vehicles
510 engineering vehicles
11,369 trucks and petrol tankers

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He was a Senior Associate with Hill & Knowlton Canada, a world-wide public relations, public affairs and strategic communications company. O'Connor has also been an official lobbyist for several defense industry companies. These companies include: BAE Systems (1996 to 2004), General Dynamics (1996 to 2001), Atlas Elektronik GmbH (1999 to 2004), and Airbus Military (2001 to 2004)

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The M1 MBT

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The M1 Abrams was designed by Chrysler Defense (in 1979, General Dynamics Land Systems Division purchased Chrysler Defense Division) and is currently produced by General Dynamics Corporation in Lima, Ohio,

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Originally posted by siren:
Tanks are very important...Glub glub glub; money and our name being poured into the sands of Afghanistan.

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Until just a short while ago they were not even there. Harper and O'Connor just paid several million to have them shipped over there, actually.

And now apparently they are just going to abandon them there. What a nice ploy eh?! Ship em all over there then say, 'they are of no use, not even worth shipping back, let's get some new ones'!

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Originally posted by Webgear:
Soviet Military Personnel & Equipment Numbers Lost In Afghanistan

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Originally posted by remind:
Until just a short while ago they were not even there. Harper and O'Connor just paid several million to have them shipped over there, actually.

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According to the G&M:

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Canada spent C$200 million upgrading the Leopard tanks and improving their armour. It cost $1 million apiece to transport 15 of the tanks, which each have a four-member crew, from their base at Wainwright, Alta., to the Kandahar base.

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I knew those particular tanks would not be shipped back to Canada -- at any cost. I just didn't consider their lack of air conditioning would be used as an excuse to purchase/lease NEW tanks.

Maybe the Afghans will see fit to park our rusted tank heaps next to the rusted heaps of Soviet military hardware -- after we've "won" in Afghanistan, of course.

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Originally posted by siren:
Canada spent C$200 million upgrading the Leopard tanks and improving their armour. It cost $1 million apiece to transport 15 of the tanks, which each have a four-member crew, from their base at Wainwright, Alta., to the Kandahar base.

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So, we just spent 215 million dollars them, wonder who got that money, or what friends of the CPC got the 200 million outfitting?

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I knew those particular tanks would not be shipped back to Canada -- at any cost. I just didn't consider their lack of air conditioning would be used as an excuse to purchase/lease NEW tanks.

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Maybe the Afghans will see fit to park our rusted tank heaps next to the rusted heaps of Soviet military hardware -- after we've "won" in Afghanistan, of course.

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Yes, well, this whole news of us staying there makes it hard to deal with the reality that many more Canadian lives will be lost as we pay for the militia of big Oil. And should, in this case, we really be supporting "the troops"?

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Although there was a report of the tanks being used to blow up an "abandoned" grape drying facility - just how were they deployed to ensure Afghan women's rights .......

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Originally posted by Webgear:
Soviet Military Personnel & Equipment Numbers Lost In Afghanistan

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Originally posted by remind:

So, we just spent 215 million dollars them, wonder who got that money, or what friends of the CPC got the 200 million outfitting?

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The upgrades started in 2000 under PM JC. IIRC, it was the manufacturer Krauss-Maffei-Wegmann who did the upgrades.

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Originally posted by Fidel:

And the Talibanization of Pakistan and Afghanistan only cost American taxpayers somewhere between $3 and $20 Billion dollars, according to wiki anyway.

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Do not forget to add the billions of dollars in arms and aid from other Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia and then do not forget to add the billions of dollars in pre war aid invested by both the US and USSR.

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Originally posted by Webgear:
Lots of money, lives and equipment have been sent to Afghanistan, and most likely will continue to do.

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And Canada will be cheerfully participating in supplying this marvelous Black Hole of Misery and Despair with lives to put to death, money to waste or steal and equipment to be destroyed. Forever. And ever. Till the End of Time.

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Originally posted by Webgear:

Do not forget to add the billions of dollars in arms and aid from other Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia and then do not forget to add the billions of dollars in pre war aid invested by both the US and USSR.

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And forget not that the CIA eventually began bypassing the Pakistani ISI as a conduit and started funding the most ruthless of militant Islamists directly after the Soviets pulled out in 1989. Vicious thugs like Gulbeddin Hekmatyar were favoured over the likes of Ahmed Shah Massoud who lost his half billion dollar a year CIA funding when he declared war on the Taliban in 1992. The U.S. ambassador at the time suggested to Massoud that he simply surrender to the Taliban.