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» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » The Berlin Wall is back. New and Improved!

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Author Topic: The Berlin Wall is back. New and Improved!
IgnoramusMaximus
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Babbler # 11551

posted 20 April 2007 10:31 PM      Profile for IgnoramusMaximus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm confused. When the Soviets built the thing last time, it was baaad, inhumane, a dastardly violation of everyone's freedoms and other unalienable rights as well as a symbol of the evil inherent in the godless Communist system.

Or so we were told.

So how do we spin this one?

My head hurts.

[ 20 April 2007: Message edited by: IgnoramusMaximus ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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Babbler # 9893

posted 20 April 2007 10:33 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm still waiting for the day when a Canadian politician stands outside the wall surrounding Gitmo and says "Mr. Bush tear down this wall".

Guess we're only supposed to be opposed to "evil" walls and not "freedom" walls.


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
IgnoramusMaximus
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posted 20 April 2007 10:55 PM      Profile for IgnoramusMaximus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by a lonely worker:
Guess we're only supposed to be opposed to "evil" walls and not "freedom" walls.

My bad. But of course. I did not realise it was a doubleplusgood "freedom" wall.

I will sleep sooo much better now.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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Babbler # 5594

posted 21 April 2007 12:27 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
North and South Korea was imperialism too. Imperialists view it as maintaining division among the barbarians. The Soviets effectively maintained division among religious fundamentalists in the stani nations for decades. The west sought to exploit the same religious groups on Russia's front steppes for their own agenda.

[ 21 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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Babbler # 13076

posted 21 April 2007 12:46 AM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I'm confused. When the Soviets built the thing last time, it was baaad, inhumane, a dastardly violation of everyone's freedoms and other unalienable rights as well as a symbol of the evil inherent in the godless Communist system.

Well, this is partly correct. That old wall was definitely a violation of freedom of movement, etc. But it wasn't inherent of anything communist.

Rather, it was an economically stagnant, fiscally conservative state monopoly capitalist model that was more successful in oppressing unions, co-ops and other working class/public interest movements, resulting in lower paid jobs with poorer working conditions, than the equally capitalistic, but much more practically socialist influenced and unionized, Keynesian boosted economies of Western Europe.

Just like anyone else, anywhere else, workers in East Germany saw an opportunity to make better bucks and live somewhat better by working in West Germany, so more and more of them over time packed their bags and moved. It got to the point where the Russian big bosses built the wall to stop them.

The new US wall in Baghdad has nothing to do with relative prosperity, or job opportunities. Rather, its sole purpose is to help with the age-old practice of divide and conquer—the standard tactic of any invading imperialistic force.

It isn’t to mainly stop sects from fighting each other, since despite all the corporate media hype, they aren’t each other’s main target. Rather, it’s mainly to try to stop them from fighting the US occupation forces, which, it appears, have geared up plans to stay there for a very long time.

So where working people in East Germany at least were moving to a better deal in West Germany, working people in Baghdad have absolutely nothing to look forward to, other than continued repression, scarcity and conflict.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 21 April 2007 01:15 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There wasn't much left in East Germany after the firebombing and last standoff against the Red Army in WWII. And Stalingrad was a beautiful, green city for workers stretching over 30 kilometres along the Volga River. It was a city where people could live, work, learn, and live life. Nazi bombers and artillery transformed the city into a tomb for hundreds of thousands of working class people.

Meanwhile, the west made sure to transform West Germany into a showcase for capitalism. American planes flew aid into W. Germany and Japan for many months after the war. Germany itself was a flashpoint for spread of Bolshevism westward at a time when state capitalism in most western nations was in the process of failing for the last time before a process of economic transformation would begin. Sure, lots of Germans and Russians were fed up with the devastation of war and just wanted to live life under the best circumstances possible.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
scott
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posted 21 April 2007 08:54 AM      Profile for scott   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by IgnoramusMaximus:
I did not realise it was a doubleplusgood "freedom" wall.

I will sleep sooo much better now.


Hah! The The East German government claimed that the Wall was an "anti-fascist protection barrier" ("antifaschistischer Schutzwall")


From: Kootenays BC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 21 April 2007 07:53 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
scott: The The East German government claimed that the Wall was an "anti-fascist protection barrier"

The function of the wall changed over time. One of the major contributing factors, initially, was to stop the attempt to hoard/sabotage the subsidized consumer goods in the Soviet Zone by "entrepreneurs" [i.e., businessmen selling the goods elsewhere at a profit while others starved]. Ain't capitalism grand?


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 27 April 2007 02:52 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Riverbend has some thoughts on the wall, just before she intends to flee Baghdad.


quote:
The Wall is the latest effort to further break Iraqi society apart. Promoting and supporting civil war isn't enough, apparently- Iraqis have generally proven to be more tenacious and tolerant than their mullahs, ayatollahs, and Vichy leaders. It's time for America to physically divide and conquer- like Berlin before the wall came down or Palestine today. This way, they can continue chasing Sunnis out of "Shia areas" and Shia out of "Sunni areas".

From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged

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