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Author Topic: Who's crazier - Bush or Bin Laden?
M. Spector
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posted 08 September 2007 10:56 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The greatest weapon in the arsenal of democracy is the desire for liberty written into the human heart by our Creator. So long as we remain true to our ideals, we will defeat the extremists in Iraq and Afghanistan. We will help those countries’ peoples stand up functioning democracies in the heart of the broader Middle East. And when that hard work is done and the critics of today recede from memory, the cause of freedom will be stronger, a vital region will be brighter, and the American people will be safer.
- Bush


quote:
And among the most important items contained in Bush’s speeches since the events of the 11th is that the Americans have no option but to continue the war. This tone is in fact an echoing of the words of neoconservatives like Cheney, Rumsfeld and Richard Pearle, the latter having said previously that the Americans have no choice in front of them other than to continue the war or face a holocaust.

I say, refuting this unjust statement, that the morality and culture of the holocaust is your culture, not our culture. In fact, burning living beings is forbidden in our religion, even if they be small like the ant, so what of man?! The holocaust of the Jews was carried out by your brethren in the middle of Europe, but had it been closer to our countries, most of the Jews would have been saved by taking refuge with us. And my proof for that is in what your brothers, the Spanish, did when they set up the horrible courts of the Inquisition to try Muslims and Jews, when the Jews only found safe shelter by taking refuge in our countries. And that is why the Jewish community in Morocco today is one of the largest communities in the world.


- Bin Laden

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 08 September 2007 11:53 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brilliant as always, M. Spector, thanks for that.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 08 September 2007 12:07 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bin Laden.
From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 08 September 2007 12:13 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The correct question is, "Who's more dangerous?"

Clearly, by arguing for endless war against an abstract noun, Bush is more dangerous.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 08 September 2007 12:17 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Prescott's grandson is the more dangerous of the two rabid anticommunist idiots by far.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 08 September 2007 12:27 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That, and we KNOW Dubya got WMD's.
From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 08 September 2007 12:28 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
And that is why the Jewish community in Morocco today is one of the largest communities in the world.

Dosen't the Jewish community in Morocco number just over 6000? (sorry, 5,500 according to the Jewish Virtual Library.) 5000 people does not a large community make. What's Osama playing at?

I would say bin Laden is better at winning hearts and minds then Bush seems to be, but that doesn't make him any less cruel or fanatical then Bush is. I sincerely doubt that a Saudi Arabia ruled by Bin Ladin would be a drastic improvement over a Saudi Arabia governed by the House of Saud.

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ward
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posted 08 September 2007 12:38 PM      Profile for Ward     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The way the main stream media scoffs at Bin Ladens' notion that the US should 'embrace' islam tells me that we have more to worry about just then Bush.
From: Scarborough | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 08 September 2007 01:18 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why shouldn't the mainstream media scoff at Bin Laden's suggestion that the US embrace Islam. I'd scoff at it.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 08 September 2007 01:53 PM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah Stockholm, you really barely contain your detain for all things Muslim.
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 08 September 2007 01:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Depends on what you figure bin Laden means by the US "embracing Islam". If it means everyone should convert, or become a Muslim country like Saudi Arabia or Iran, then I agree with Stockholm. I'd have the same reaction if the Pope told Canada that we should "embrace Catholicism" and by that meant that people should convert.

Of course, if what he means is that the US should embrace the Muslims in their midst, I totally agree with that. But considering the type of rule that bin Laden seems to approve of, or find shelter with (Saudi, the Taliban in Afghanistan), I certainly wouldn't assume anything so benign about bin Laden. The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 08 September 2007 02:02 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
Why shouldn't the mainstream media scoff at Bin Laden's suggestion that the US embrace Islam. I'd scoff at it.

And what would be wrong with the U.S. allowing Islamic fundamentalists to run for and compete for the presidency alongside candidates propped up by Christian fundies in the bible belt ?. They spent billions on the Talibanization of Pakistan and Afghanistan in the 1980's. bin Laden was one of their favourite anti-communists not so long ago.

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
ChicagoLoopDweller
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posted 08 September 2007 02:22 PM      Profile for ChicagoLoopDweller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What I find interesting about the Bin Laden statement is that he maintains that burning human beings is against his religion. Which is interesting, considering 911, (if he was in charge of it) involved flying planes laden with fuel into buildings and resulted in a large number of people being burned to death. Maybe in his mind this is akin to the guns don't kill people, bullets kill people argument.

Bin Laden and Bush are both true believers in their cause. Neither will be easily swayed from the course they have plotted.

I think the real question is, what Shopper's Drug Mart did Osama buy the Just For Men or Grecian Formula at for his beard?

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: ChicagoLoopDweller ]


From: Chicago | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 08 September 2007 02:31 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Funny you should mention that. I've been laughing with my housemates all day about how much time the Globe and Mail spent talking about his hair colour, and how quickly the paper skipped over his words about the military-industrial complex and democracy.

"The greatest of plagues and most dangerous of threats to humans taking place in an accelerating fashion [because democracy] has failed to protect mankind from the greed and avarice of the major corporations."

But he's got a black beard! Hey! Look over here! Look at the bright birdy!

Bin Laden urges Americans to convert

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 08 September 2007 02:43 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By the way, how many people besides me heard this news and immediately had a conspiracy theory pop up in their mind of Repugnicans hiring a look-alike and making this tape in order to drum up support for the war?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 08 September 2007 02:51 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who's crazier?
Someone would have to provide me their views on the desirablity of Britney Spear's comeback bid. If either one looks forward to it - they win, hands down.

From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 08 September 2007 02:53 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
By the way, how many people besides me heard this news and immediately had a conspiracy theory pop up in their mind of Repugnicans hiring a look-alike and making this tape in order to drum up support for the war?

Would a republican look alike talk about the greed of corporations?

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
ChicagoLoopDweller
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posted 08 September 2007 02:56 PM      Profile for ChicagoLoopDweller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Where did Bin Laden get his money from?
From: Chicago | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 08 September 2007 02:57 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Would a republican look alike talk about the greed of corporations?

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


Absolutely. They would probably benefit from islamic fundamentalists aligning themselves with the economic left, or at least the perception thereof. Ideological dichotomization works to their advantage.


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 08 September 2007 03:13 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
And what would be wrong with the U.S. allowing Islamic fundamentalists to run for and compete for the presidency alongside candidates propped up by Christian fundies in the bible belt ?

There is nothing wrong with it...and right now there is nothing to stop someone from running for public office on a platform of "elect me so I can pass a law making Islam the state religion of the US and make it obligatory for all Americans to become Muslim". That person just wouldn't get very many votes.

Even at the height of the red scare of 50s, there was always a Communist Party candidate running for President of the US. Look up Gus Hall on wikipedia.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TemporalHominid
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posted 08 September 2007 03:30 PM      Profile for TemporalHominid   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
By the way, how many people besides me heard this news and immediately had a conspiracy theory pop up in their mind of Repugnicans hiring a look-alike and making this tape in order to drum up support for the war?


yeah I was thinking they would hire a look-alike Bush too to drum up support for the war, one that could get through a speech without bumbling all the sentences.

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]


From: Under a bridge, in Foot Muck | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 08 September 2007 03:46 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
Why shouldn't the mainstream media scoff at Bin Laden's suggestion that the US embrace Islam. I'd scoff at it.
You're referring to the same mainstream media that actually pays people six-figure salaries to say things like "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"?

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 08 September 2007 05:16 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

There is nothing wrong with it...and right now there is nothing to stop someone from running for public office on a platform of "elect me so I can pass a law making Islam the state religion of the US and make it obligatory for all Americans to become Muslim". That person just wouldn't get very many votes.


They might not receive very many votes under a FPP American system with college of electors handing power to Republicans after losing the popular vote. Because like here, most Americans vote so as not to elect a bunch of right-wing whackos. Their democracy, like hear, has a certain amount of fear tainting what is a dated and obsolete selection process. They tend to plug their noses and vote Liberal Democrat instead of Nader or Kucinich, people they know are further to the left but don't receive the kind of corporate-sponsored campaign funding needed to brainwash a good third of them in red "have-not" U.S. states for the kind of phony majority power required to seize control of the Reichstag, I mean WhiteHouse. And they just wouldn't receive the free mainstream news media coverage, at least not in the beginning of what could possibly develop into free and fair American elections in the future.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
anchovy breather
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posted 08 September 2007 06:17 PM      Profile for anchovy breather     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
A Californian heavy metal fan, who converted to Islam and became the first American to be charged with treason in half a century, has been fingered as the author of Osama bin Laden's latest video lecture - which left the terror chief sounding like an anti-globalisation protester.

quote:
Last October, the 28-year-old "loner" became the first American charged with treason since 1952, for appearing in a succession of al-Qaeda videos under the guise of "Azzam The American", in which he condemned globalisation and made American cultural references.

quote:
What surprised analysts was his use of the language of Left-wing protesters, which showed detailed knowledge of the economic travails of middle America.

Bin Laden referred to "the reeling of many of you under the burden of interest-related debts, insane taxes and real estate mortgage" and blamed "global warming and its woes" on "emissions of the factories the major corporations".

A former senior US intelligence official said: "It has Adam Gadahn written all over it." Mike Baker, a former CIA covert operations officer, said the tape left bin Laden with "the title of biggest gas bag in the terrorist world".

CIA officials said voice analysis of the tape proved it was definitely bin Laden.


Bin Laden must be like fake. Maybe an actor, or some shit. Like Borat but evil and dumb. He takes speeches written by a heavy metal fan? I know saying that kinda stuff even in jest makes one sound like a nut but.

It's like he timed his newest video to Naomi Klein's new book or something.

I call bullshit on this for some reason. It's all kind of moving towards framing left-wingers / so-called anti-globalization-types as terrorists.

Which in this day and age was bound to happen at some point.

Damn, I don't trust 'power' in this day and age is all I know. Maybe the newspaper I quoted this from was just trying to frame OBLs speech as such (prolly actually). Still to people who don't pass a lot of thought but from surface impressions it is a clever way to equate 'leftys' with OBL.

I've already started digging secret resistance tunnels...Link

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: anchovy breather ]

[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: anchovy breather ]


From: rotating, random | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 08 September 2007 06:22 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly, anchovy breather. Right from the first time I heard about this, while I was joking about the Republican conspiracy, it just didn't sit right with me. I just have a hard time believing it. That's exactly what it feels like to me too - an attempt to tie left-wing politics and activists to bin Laden. Makes it that much easier to crack down on protesters, I guess.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 08 September 2007 06:51 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So now General Eisenhower is a leftist. Who would have thunk it.

quote:
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961


[ 08 September 2007: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Frisko
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posted 09 September 2007 11:24 AM      Profile for Frisko     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bin Laden for President.

Ah the joys of Sharia Law,what would he do with all the feminists,non believers, and god help the Jews.I wonder if he would accept half Jew half french?
Would woman be allowed to vote ?

quote:
Qutbism has gained notoriety from its association with jihadi extremists like Osama bin Laden. According to some observers, jihadi extremists “cite Sayyid Qutb repeatedly and consider themselves his intellectual descendants.”[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbism


quote:
Qutbism postulates that sharia-based society will have an almost supernatural perfection, providing justice, prosperity, peace and harmony both individually and societally. [14] Its wonders are such that the use of offensive jihad to spread of sharia-Islam throughout the non-Muslim world will not be aggression but "a movement ... to introduce true freedom to mankind." It frees humanity from servitude to man because its divine nature requires no human authorities to judge or enforce its law. [15].


Ah Bin Laden,the life and times of an egomaniac.


From: B.C | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ward
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posted 09 September 2007 11:32 AM      Profile for Ward     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
President’s Ramadan Message, 2006
September 22, 2006

I send greetings to the many Muslims observing Ramadan in America and around the world.

Ramadan is the holiest time of the Muslim year and an important holiday when Muslims take time for prayer, fasting, and personal sacrifice. According to Islamic teachings, this month represents when God delivered His word to the prophet Muhammad in the form of the Qur'an. Ramadan is also an opportunity to gather with friends and family and show thanks for God's blessings through works of charity.

Ramadan and the upcoming holiday seasons are a good time to remember the common values that bind us together. Our society is enriched by our Muslim citizens whose commitment to faith reminds us of the gift of religious freedom in our country.

Laura and I send our best wishes for a blessed Ramadan. Ramadan Mubarak.

GEORGE W. BUSH

whitehouse 2006

edit to add:
First day: September 13, 2007; last day: October 13, 2007

[ 09 September 2007: Message edited by: Ward ]


From: Scarborough | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 12 September 2007 06:38 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
You know your country’s “democratic” leadership and rationale for war are in trouble when the anointed most-evil enemy makes more sense than they do.

Although for all we know Bin Laden’s “annual message to Americans” originated below Dick Cheney’s office where Bin Laden is living in luxury chained to a pool table, its contents ring with refreshing logic relative to what usually passes for truth in and around the White House.


Source

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 12 September 2007 06:45 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

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