"Real homosexuals don't wander in the streets in colorful suits. Those are people who have a serious problem and have to live with that. And if they make a mistake they will be forgiven. We have to help these people and not judge them," Joos said in the interview.

Belgium bishops Wednesday distanced themselves from Joos' remarks.

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Originally posted by JimmyBrogan:
"I am willing to write in my own blood that of all those who call themselves priests or bishops, a maximum of five to 10 percent are effectively
Catholic or Christian," Jimmy Brogan said. "All the rest are just sexual perverts," he added.

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"I am willing to write in my own blood that of all those who call themselves lesbian or gay, a maximum of five to 10 percent are effectively lesbian or gay," Joos said.

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Originally posted by paxamillion:
Disgusting.

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Oh I don't know. I'd rather be called a pervert than intrinsically evil and disordered.

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Originally posted by oldgoat:
I'd have to agree with that. In my own experience it's a lot more fun being a pervert than being intrinsically evil and disordered, and also doesn't have the same burden of expectations.

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it's a lot more fun being a pervert

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Originally posted by Newbie:
So anyone want to place bets on how far away we are from the first gay, married pope?

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I'll go for 1000 years.

Records are sparse on their sexual practices during the first 800 years.

I mean, I'm not really gay. I'm just a heterosexual pervert who has gay sex because that's apparently what heterosexual perverts do.

I mean, the two sexy, intelligent women who proposed marriage to me in the last 5 years... Well, I turned them down because I am more interested in having sex with the gender I am not sexually attracted to.

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Originally posted by Newbie:
Well those who challenge biblical prohibitions against homosexual acts while remaining religious contend that back then the concept of a homosexual orientation didn't exist, and that those prohibitions were therefore meant to apply to heterosexuals.

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I simply look at them as existing in a historical context that is very different from now.

They were just acting out.

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Christians labelling those who are atheists or agnostics as "immature in their faith"

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I have often heard, in my church travels, Christians labelling those who are atheists or agnostics as "immature in their faith" or "seeking God".

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Or the slightly more sophisticated philosophical variant which supposes that atheists must be forever linked with that which they deny exists, and are therefore only another form of believer: the "believer" who disbelieves.

What about those of us who simply cannot believe in the actual existence of the bearded shepherding god of ancient nomadic hill shepherds?

[ 03 February 2004: Message edited by: flotsom ]

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Originally posted by paxamillion:
By your reasoning, Newbie, we might consider being equally dismissive of Aristotle. Some of his work in biology looks pretty crude by the standards of today.

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Yes it does, and I expect if anyone was insane enough to pretend his work was the infallible word of God, people would be pretty dismissive of him today too. Hardly his fault, but I'm still not going to trust a doctor who considers him to be the last word in biology.

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To many Christians, any belief that isn't Christian is merely a stepping stone on the ultimate journey to faith.

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Interesting, Michelle. I believe Freudians (not Freud) believed the same about homosexuality, that everyone goes through a homosexual stage and some of us get stuck there.

Of course to believe that, you need to believe that two little girls playing "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" is the same thing as two adult women with a mortgage, 3 kids and 5 cats.

[ 03 February 2004: Message edited by: Newbie ]

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Originally posted by flotsom:
What about those of us who simply cannot believe in the actual existence of the bearded shepherding god of ancient nomadic hill shepherds?

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Or the slightly more sophisticated philosophical variant which supposes that atheists must be forever linked with that which they deny exists, and are therefore only another form of believer: the "believer" who disbelieves.

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Right! The same way we're all wedded to, and in fact defined by, our belief that the moon is not made of green cheese! Or our belief that cows do not possess language. Or our belief that pigs cannot fly. Or any of an infinite (and I mean infinite, not just "a lot") number of other things we disbelieve.

But don't take my word for it.

[ 03 February 2004: Message edited by: flotsom ]

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Originally posted by flotsom:
Pax, I understand that faith, or spiritual authority, is toxic to a process of inquiry; where doubt is essential.

But don't take my word for it.

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That has sometimes been my experience and sometimes not.