The leftist leader, who has joined Iran and Cuba in opposing U.S. influence, accused Washington of “domination, exploitation and pillage of peoples of the world.”

“We appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our head,” he said.

The main U.S. seat in the assembly hall was empty as Chavez spoke. But there was a “junior note taker” there, as is customary “when governments like that speak,” the U.S. ambassador to the UN said.

Ambassador John Bolton told The Associated Press that Chavez had the right to express his opinion, adding it was “too bad the people of Venezuela don’t have free speech.”

“I’m just not going to comment on this because his remarks just don’t warrant a response,” Bolton said. “Serious people can listen to what he had to say and if they do they will reject it.”

Chavez drew tentative giggles at times from the audience, but also some applause when he called Bush the devil.

Standing at the podium, Chavez quipped that a day after Bush’s appearance: “In this very spot it smells like sulfur still.”

Chavez held up a book by American leftist writer Noam Chomsky, “Hegemony or Survival: America’s Quest for Global Dominance,” and recommended it to everyone in the General Assembly.

Source: Associated Press

[ 20 September 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

quote:

---

Mr Chávez complained that his personal doctor and head of security had been prevented from disembarking at New York airport by the American authorities. And then he coined the phrase that will now forever be etched into UN history as one of the more colourful criticisms levelled at the US president from his own turf: "This is another abuse and another abuse of power on the part of the devil. It smells of sulphur here, but God is with us and I embrace you all."

He went on to accuse the US of double standards on terrorism. "The US has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in Venezuela, and it continues to support coup attempts in Venezuela and elsewhere ... I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse."
....

Delegates and leaders from around the world streamed back into the chamber to hear Mr Chávez, and when he stepped down the vigorous applause lasted so long that it had to be curtailed by the chair.

A fellow South American leader, Evo Morales of Bolivia, also livened up proceedings at the assembly. President Morales held up a coca leaf from the platform to make a point about his opposition to the US-driven war on drugs in his country.

The small, pale green leaf - illegal in the US - joins a growing list of artefacts displayed from the general assembly lectern that includes Nikita Khrushchev's shoe and Yasser Arafat's trademark gun and an olive branch.

Mr Morales, the first indigenous president of Bolivia, said: "We don't need blackmail and threats" and "There's another historical injustice - criminalising coca, the coca leaf."
The Guardian

---

quote:

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President Michelle Bachelet reminded us just a moment ago of the horrendous assassination of the former foreign minister, Orlando Letelier.

And I would just add one thing: Those who perpetrated this crime are free. And that other event where an American citizen also died were American themselves. They were CIA killers, terrorists.

And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents died, a Cubana de Aviacion airliner.

And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country, protected by the government.

And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to.

And this is to say that Venezuela is fully committed to combating terrorism and violence. And we are one of the people who are fighting for peace.

Luis Posada Carriles is the name of that terrorist who is protected here. And other tremendously corrupt people who escaped from Venezuela are also living here under protection: a group that bombed various embassies, that assassinated people during the coup. They kidnapped me and they were going to kill me, but I think God reached down and our people came out into the streets and the army was too, and so I'm here today.

But these people who led that coup are here today in this country protected by the American government. And I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse.

---

quote:

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They kidnapped me and they were going to kill me, but I think God reached down and our people came out into the streets and the army was too, and so I'm here today.

---

Supplemental: I'm not impressed with Dawkins this time around. His arguments aren't even about religion per se but monotheism only. Not enough of a sociologist or student of psychology. Better to look at the work of Daniel Dennett, Michael Shermer, the late Stephen J. Gould, and so on. That's my 2 bits.

[ 20 September 2006: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

quote:

---

Ambassador John Bolton told The Associated Press that Chavez had the right to express his opinion, adding it was “too bad the people of Venezuela don’t have free speech.”

---

The truth, of course, is that Venezuela has, and has had for many years, a large and very diverse media, including vibrant labour press--something that is brutally suppressed in the US Reich land.

The US, on the other hand, much like Canada, has a totalitarian corporate-controlled monolithic media that suppresses information, lies through its teeth and severely curtails the parameters of public debate of political and economic issues.

Chavez' speech was right on and totally accurate. It's obvious that large numbers of government leaders across the globe share Chavez views, but can't say anything publicly because they live in terror of the US/Corporate America dictatorship.

But I do think Bush isn't the devil. He's actually far worse, since, according to Biblical philosophy, all the devil can do is really tempt people to do wrong. Bush and the totalitarian state he leads actually forces evil--as in the total subordination to US corporate dictates and their puppet regimes--on economies and societies around the globe.

I saw Reich Chancellor Bush speaking to the UN last night. The bald-faced lies and the celebration of terror, hypocritically masked behind the usual BS of supposed "freedom" and "fighting terrorism" were disgusting as usual.

quote:

---

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
I'm not impressed with Dawkins this time around. His arguments aren't even about religion per se but monotheism only.

---

Are you suggesting his arguments don't apply to polytheistic religions? Are there still any polytheist religions around of any significance, anyway?

quote:

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The US, on the other hand, much like Canada, has a totalitarian corporate-controlled monolithic media that suppresses information, lies through its teeth and severely curtails the parameters of public debate of political and economic issues.

---

You are bang on. i watched the National's coverage of Chavez's speech and they didn't even play the audio from the UN. Instead Mansbridge read the devil quote and then said something like "but the US government had a quick answer of their own ..." then they showed the Bolton quote (which is totally false considering the US funds the opposition, the corporate trade unions - fortunately increasingly on the decline and Venezuela's corporate media is about as Chavez friendly as Faux News.) Of course none of these facts came out.

quote:

---

Originally posted by M. Spector:
Are you suggesting his arguments don't apply to polytheistic religions? Are there still any polytheist religions around of any significance, anyway?

---

There's something very good about freely mocking and denouncing the foreign policies of the USA, about drawing attention to great thinkers in that country who dare to do the same, and so on.

[ 21 September 2006: Message edited by: josh ]

And Bolton? What a lightweight. At least Condi Rice might have had a snappy comeback.

quote:

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Josh no matter what Chavez would have said he would have been slammed by the corporate media. They're too busy spreading the lies that Chavez is a dictator.

---

But in terms of international diplomacy, the-other-guy-is-the-devil doesn't get you far.

When Bush talks about the axis of evil, educated people think he his an idiot. The reason is because the world isn't made up of pure good and pure evil, but mostly of a fluctuating mix of the two.

quote:

---

Originally posted by josh:
I thought his "devil" reference was over the top. He could have ripped Bush a new one without bringing religious imagery into the equation. If anything, it makes the job of those of us in the U.S. who hate Bush harder. And may create sympathy in those who only mildly dislike him ("he's been pretty lousy, but he's not the devil").

All in all, Hugo would have been better off staying home.

---

I don't think he expects much help for his country to come from the domestic American political landscape, which is co-opted and subsumed. The US is pretty much a lost cause, as anyone who takes a look at either of the mainstream parties can see.

As well as the image of Bush addressing the UN with a dunce cap on his head.

quote:

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yesem misser bushh we will do wha you wan.

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quote:

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How'd you like this guy to promote your book?

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quote:

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In an effort to bolster his case, Chavez waved a copy of Noam Chomsky's book "Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Domination," and recommended that everyone read it. The book, written by the American linguist and longtime critic of U.S. foreign policy, argues that the U.S. pursuit of political supremacy is having devastating consequences for the majority of the world's people. After the speech, the book's hourly sales ranking on Amazon.com soared to No. 22 as of 6 p.m. Wednesday, from No. 160,772 earlier in the day, according to CNN.

San Francisco Chronicle

---

The paperback is #3.

[ 21 September 2006: Message edited by: writer ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by josh:
I didn't find it particulary funny. I thought is was stupid. And his point about the terrorist, or the legitimate point he could have made about the Bush administration trying to overthrow, got lost in the "devil" headlines. So, he undercut his own case without passing the stand-up comedian test. At least Kruschev banging his shoe on the desk was funny.

[ 21 September 2006: Message edited by: josh ]

---

American Presidents and diplomats get to stand and call everyone that stands up to them various and sundry names especially "terrorist" so why should everyone else be polite and nice to them.

People all over the world are cheering his speech and in my opinion most of those cheeering think Bush is the devil incarnate.

Go Chavez Go

quote:

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...we are bringing a proposal made by Simón Bolívar, the great Liberator of the South, in 1815. Bolívar proposed then the creation of an international city that would host the idea of unity.

We believe it is time to think about the creation of an international city with its own sovereignty, with its own strength and morality to represent all nations of the world. Such international city has to balance five centuries of unbalance. The headquarters of the United Nations must be in the South.

---

[ 21 September 2006: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Reuters says he got a standing ovation at the UN but the crowd went wild in Harlem:

quote:

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"Every day I ask God, and the sooner the better, for the American people to elect a president who you can talk with, who you can work with, who you can talk with face-to-face as a brother and see each other as equals," Chavez told the Harlem Church on Thursday.

"Not this gentleman who walks like John Wayne," Chavez said, puffing out his chest and swinging his elbows back and forth. The crowd went wild, but the carefully chosen audiences reflected public opinion outside the American mainstream.

---

I trust a clip will be available shortly on YouTube.

But, even the Democrats are not happy their Pretzledent is being pilloried.

quote:

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U.S. officials said Chavez's remarks did not dignify a response. Even Nancy Pelosi, a liberal member of Congress and one of Bush's fiercest political opponents, called Chavez a "thug" for likening Bush to the devil.

"Hugo Chavez fancies himself a modern day Simon Bolivar but all he is an everyday thug," the House Democratic leader said at a news conference.

---

Some other NY democrat whined also.

Go Chavez! But watch your back.

[ 21 September 2006: Message edited by: siren ]

[ 21 September 2006: Message edited by: siren ]

The Reuters link wasn't causing problems on my computer so I assumed (given my hypersensitivity) it was OK for everyone. Sorry, can't see what's wrong with it so I just removed it. The source is Reuters.

You go - Hugo !!!!!

ETA: can anyone suggest a good online seller to buy this book that's Canadian and treats it's workers with respect?

[ 21 September 2006: Message edited by: a lonely worker ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
I'm particularly fond of one such photo with Chavez wearing the ceremonial sash of the Venezuelan Presidency. It lends him the dignity that he so richly deserves.

---

He looks like a pompous king from the 18 century
bourgeois Germany. Many German progressive writers of the time (like ETA Hoffman for instance) made lots of witty fun of such characters and their tiny courts- of those pretentious, comical, and self-indulgent persons. Meanwhile outside the palace:

wiki: "There was a sharp drop in investment and a general recession during 2002 and 2003. Total GDP decreased 18.5% during the first semester of 2003 compared with the same period in 2002. This is the steepest decline in Venezuelan history. The hardest hit sectors were construction (-55.9%), petroleum (-26.5%), commerce (-23.6%) and manufacturing (-22.5%)....
Venezuela's labor force of about 12.05 million is growing faster than total employment. In August 2003, official unemployment was 17.8%, but unofficial estimates are over 20%.
...In spite of a presidential term limit of 12 years, Chávez often suggests that he will remain in power for 25 years"

Dictatorial monarchy, isn't it? A 'revolutionary' who seriously speaks of devil and god. But it seems that his pal from Iran taught him that terminology.

Funny guy, exhibiting crazy things indeed.

[ 22 September 2006: Message edited by: venus_man ]

quote:

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Originally posted by siren:
Boom Boom I would have paid good money to see Chavez in Harlem.

---

quote:

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"Not this gentleman who walks like John Wayne," Chavez said, puffing out his chest and swinging his elbows back and forth.

---

I actually thinking his joking around makes for good optics it makes it more difficult for the U.S. media to portray him as dangerous or a threat. I also don't think the christian imagery hurts either, Bush continually wants to present himself as a "good christian soldier" it is relevant to challenge that image.

quote:

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U.S. officials said Chavez's remarks did not dignify a response. Even Nancy Pelosi, a liberal member of Congress and one of Bush's fiercest political opponents, called Chavez a "thug" for likening Bush to the devil.

---

I wonder why they use 'thug' to describe this? They know as well as (or much better) than anyone else what the world of politics is like. Bush being the most hated man on the planet makes attacks on him exceedingly popular ^^ Though I guess it's in their best interests to not side with 'your presidents the devil'.

If anything I'd like to see US officials admit that Bush is so internationally detested that comments such as that win big points on the international stage... Maybe then they'll (and the public) will know why people can not only make comments like this, but receive extreme support for making these comments.

add:

quote:

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I also don't think the christian imagery hurts either, Bush continually wants to present himself as a "good christian soldier" it is relevant to challenge that image.

---

Well stated and deserves to be echoed.

[ 22 September 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

quote:

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I wonder why they use 'thug' to describe this? They know as well as (or much better) than anyone else what the world of politics is like. Bush being the most hated man on the planet makes attacks on him exceedingly popular ^^ Though I guess it's in their best interests to not side with 'your presidents the devil'.

---

People keep confusing US partisan politics with world views. The democrats are just as interested in maintaining US hegemony as our the republicans. The democrats see independent Latin American leaders as dangerous and would have no more qualms than a republican in sending in troops to keep Latin America safe for global corporations.

Chavez expressed the sort of incredulity at the murderous and merciless audacity of imperialism and its chief spokesperson that should be uttered much more often. We on the left take it as a given but we do not always dare say it in public places because we cannot. But those who CAN should say such things.

quote:

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Chavez: ... the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.

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Truly. As the owner of the world. These things ought to be said at every opportunity. They are beyond politics. They are about human decency which neocons like Bush and his cabal of zealots would have people forget.

quote:

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Chavez: What a strange democracy. Aristotle might not recognize it or others who are at the root of democracy.

---

When is the last time that the current US President spoke of the real history of democracy? When is the last time that the US President spoke of the noble crucible of democracy in Ancient Greece, the shared property of all the peoples of the world, in respectful tones?

Ezra Pound, a fascist if ever there was one, wrote some outstanding poetry despite his misanthropic world view. One of his poems, Commission, conveys a helpful and consoling disobedience to injustice:

quote:

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Go, my songs ....
Go as a great wave of cool water,
Bear my contempt of oppressors ....
Bring confidence upon the algae and the tentacles of the soul.

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quote:

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We really have to stop thinking that democrats represent a turning ship. They don't. They only represent a new figure head captain.

---

Well said.

The Democrats are imperialists also. I dream of a day when the American people back a party that is not imperialist but instead true to the founding principles which I believe were deliberately anti-imperialist.

quote:

---

Originally posted by venus_man:
wiki: "There was a sharp drop in investment and a general recession during 2002 and 2003. Total GDP decreased 18.5% during the first semester of 2003 compared with the same period in 2002. This is the steepest decline in Venezuelan history. The hardest hit sectors were construction (-55.9%), petroleum (-26.5%), commerce (-23.6%) and manufacturing (-22.5%)....
Venezuela's labor force of about 12.05 million is growing faster than total employment. In August 2003, official unemployment was 17.8%, but unofficial estimates are over 20%.

---

Your wiki article is out of date and highly selective in its data. It just so happens that Venezuela's economy went into a tailspin in 2002 because of the US-engineered coup against Chavez that deposed him temporarily, and the prolonged anti-government lockouts by Venezuelan capitalists trying to create social and economic chaos.

The reality today is that Venezuela has the strongest economic growth in the hemisphere:

quote:

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[November, 2005] A few economic statistics go a long way in explaining why the Venezuelan government is doing so well and the opposition, which still controls most of the media and has most of the country's income, is flagging.

After growing nearly 18 percent last year, the Venezuelan economy has expanded 9.3 percent for the first half of this year - the fastest economic growth in the hemisphere.

---

[ 22 September 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

http://www.cepr.net/columns/weisbrot/2005_11_01.htm

[ 22 September 2006: Message edited by: otter ]

[ 22 September 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

Well I checked Hugo Chavez in Wikipedia and here's what I found under economic policy:

quote:

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During Chávez's presidency from 1999 to 2004, per-capita GDP dropped 1–2 %,[93] but with the help of rising oil prices, the end of the oil strike, and strong consumption growth, recent economic activity under Chávez has been robust. GDP growth rates were 18% in 2004,[94] 9% in 2005,[95] and 9.6% in the first half of 2006, with the private sector growing at a 10.3% clip.

Datos reports real income grew by 137% between 2003 and Q1 2006.[98] Official poverty figures dropped by 4.9%

According to government figures, unemployment has dropped by 7% since the start of Chávez's presidency. [101][102] Venezuela's rate of unemployment dropped to 10% in February 2006 from the 2003 high of 20%, which occurred during a two-month strike and business lockout that shut down the country's oil industry.

The World Bank calculated a 10% drop in poverty

According to the Banco Central de Venezuela, inflation dropped from 29.9% to 14.4%

In the second quarter of 2006 gross fixed investment was the highest ever recorded by the Banco Central de Venezuela since it started tracking the statistic in 1997.

---

At the site, there's also very clear graphs that clearly demonstrate this amazing turnaround from the US attempts at destabilisation but I don't know how to copy them.

In fact the critics are having a hard time dismissing such massive turnarounds and are forced to give incredibly weak arguments about bad conditions like this eye roller:

quote:

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The president of Datos said that, although his surveys showed rising incomes because of subsidies and grants, the number of people in the worst living conditions has grown. "The poor of Venezuela are living much better lately and have increased their purchasing power . . . [but] without being able to improve their housing, education level, and social mobility," he said. "Rather than help [the poor] become stakeholders in the economic system, what [the government has] done is distribute as much oil wealth as possible in missions and social programs."

---

So basicly the poor are better off than ever before but they aren't "stakeholders" (slaves) to the big corporations.

So the big corps aren't happy he's using the nation's oil wealth for the people? Quick call Rummy and set up Operation Restore our Oil Profits To Us or some other equally lame name for an invasion force.

Oh yeah unlike you with your pathetically out of date stats (do you still use Windows 98 too?), here's my source:
Hugo Chavez - Economic Policy

Time for you to go back to Venus and update your 3 year old sources.

[ 22 September 2006: Message edited by: a lonely worker ]

quote:

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Look at the difference between how Hugo Chavez governs at home and shares with others abroad based on the principles of social equity and justice compared to the way George Bush does it. He and his hard-right Republican allies believe it's right to take from the poor and plunder other nations abroad to benefit the rich and powerful at home. To do it he's been waging illegal wars of aggression almost since he took office and just declared a permanent "long war" clash of civilizations against 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide to subjugate and exploit them for the corporate interests he represents.

Hugo Chavez will stand for re-election on December 3 this year. His approval rating is so high (compared to Bush's low one), no opposition candidate can defeat him in a free, fair and open election although the Bush administration is planning an unknown array of dirty tricks trying to do it. Compare that to the way elections are now run in the US where the only sure way George Bush and neocon Republicans can win is by rigging the outcomes. They have to because growing numbers of voters are fed up with them and reject their failed policies of endless war against enemies that don't exist, tax cuts for the rich combined with reduced social services for everyone else to pay for them, and a crackdown on civil liberties to quell dissent that always happens in the face of injustice.
....
Hugo Chavez represents a different vision. Among world leaders, he's the best hope to give democracy meaning again throughout the Americas and beyond, and that's why the Bush administration is determined to oust him before he spreads much more of his good will.

The Chavez way is gaining ground because it's a new paradigm based on global solidarity, equality and political, economic and social justice that opposes the failed Bush neoliberal imperial world model more people everywhere are fed up with and want no more of.

It's shown up on the streets of Mexico for weeks and again on Sunday when hundreds of thousands of people packed the great Zocalo square in Mexico City in support of winning candidate Lopez Obrador denied by massive fraud the office of president he won in July.
Source

---

quote:

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that country's protection of terrorist Luis P. Coralles. Coralles is responsible for the deaths of around 70 or 80 people, including the entire Cuban Olympic fencing team. Neither the "western" media nor the US government dare respond to that criticism.

---

Posada

Here is the entry on the Cubana flight:

Cubana 455

And in the ultimate display of hypocrisy here is an article telling about a US judge ordering his release on 9/11, 2006.
Cuban bomb suspect to be released

This is just a tip of the iceberg as his path of death and destruction is legendary. Unfortunately there are others as well, who are equally living the good life in Miami.

But at least these will get you started on this story that our media would never dare fully cover.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Chávez crossing himself (with the sign of the Cross) afterwards. I thought it was funny, in a way, but also a bit much.

---

quote:

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Bush's self-proclaimed adherence to Christianity (during one of the presidential debates he said Jesus Christ was his favorite "philosopher") and his constant reference to a new international structure bypassing the United Nations system and long-standing international treaties are worrying the top leadership of the Roman Catholic Church. Well-informed sources close to the Vatican report that Pope John Paul II is growing increasingly concerned about Bush's ultimate intentions. . .

Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs, and his constant references to "evil doers," in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament. Before he became Pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel." The Pope, who grew up facing the evils of Hitler and Stalin, knows evil when he sees it.

---

quote:

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I don't think of Bush as the anti-Christ; he's more like a puppet being manipulated by those around him.

---

Here is the letter:

quote:

---

I am amused reading the main stream media's attempt to paint Chavez as a nut bar for equating Bush with the devil. While it appears okay for Bush to consistently brand people 'evil doers' and to bring God into his wars against Muslim countries, the MSM falls all over itself to portray the use of the word 'Devil' as some indication someone is off their rocker yet gives people like Bush and Harper a free pass for the same use of God and evil doers in the commission of the War on Terror (TM). Bush has shown nothing but utter contempt for the people of his own country, not to mention the severe contempt he has shown for people all over the world in his aggressive and murderous War on Terror (TM).

Did the MSM stop and think that perhaps what Chavez was saying is exactly how the people of this world (the people for peace and the end of wars), feel? Does anyone honestly believe that Bush is acting for God as he helps kill thousands upon thousands of men, women and children in countries he considers part of the 'Axis of Evil'? Amusing then isn't it how the MSM are jumping all over themselves to denounce Chavez, whose words better reflect the people of the international community. Chavez was also part of a failed coup, courtesy of the Bush administration, to have him kidnapped. If I were Chavez I'd be a tad pissed too. I thank Chavez for his courage, as we, the people, are not being represented by Harper, by Bush and certainly not by the Big Business and military industrial complex these two worship.

Chavez has more in common with the people and with a true democracy, then Mr. Bush ever will. No war monger who uses God as justification to kill should be given a free pass, and you, as journalists, have a duty to report objectively. That does not mean skewering Chavez for his use of the word 'Devil' to describe Bush. Make no mistake, Bush is most certainly 'The Devil' to a growing legion of people, everyday people, throughout the universe. Bush, who uses God and the 9/11 dead to commit war crimes gets a free pass from the MSM, who stand on the sidelines and cheer. Funny how Chavez has the guts to say what most of us feel, yet those who are the story tellers cower in fear and cannot see the hypocrisy of their position on Chavez's words.

To reiterate - Bush uses the God to justify killing. Chavez rightfully takes Bush to task and speaks for us, the people who are sick of being part of this failed War on Terror, and the best the MSM can do is chastise Chavez while ignoring what those words meant? Boo to you, the media. Another round won by default by Bush, courtesy of a scared media.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stargazer:
Well our media is busy painting Chavez as a nut bar as well. I sent a letter to the Star. They did not have the courage to print it. Today I read another Star article calling Chavez crazy. Looks like our MSM are failing us - massively.

Here is the letter:

---

quote:

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You'd think George Bush would get down on his knees and kiss Hugo Chavez's behind. Not only has Chavez delivered cheap oil to the Bronx and other poor communities in the United States. And not only did he offer to bring aid to the victims of Katrina. In my interview with the president of Venezuela on March 28, he made Bush the following astonishing offer: Chavez would drop the price of oil to $50 a barrel, "not too high, a fair price," he said -- a third less than the $75 a barrel for oil recently posted on the spot market. That would bring down the price at the pump by about a buck, from $3 to $2 a gallon.

---

quote:

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Stargazer, you should see if rabble will publish your letter. This is just the place for voices such as yours, which the MSN is often too cowardly to publish.

---

Stargazer, would you like to submit your letter to the editor of rabble.ca and have it published as "the letter the mainstream media won't touch"?

P.S. This is funny.

quote:

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Cueball

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not a big fan of Chomsky.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

M. Spector

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's odd - he speaks so highly of you.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
That's odd - he speaks so highly of you.

---

Excerpt:

Tavis Smiley: The first question of this conversation I think has to be your comment calling President Bush the devil. There are some who have labeled your speech at the U.N. just days ago the most undiplomatic speech ever given at the U.N. To the American public, clarify or share with us why you chose to call George Bush the devil.

Chávez: Thank you very much for your question. Allow me to make the following comment. In order to come here, some considered my speech undiplomatic. How diplomatic is it to bombard cities? Is it diplomatic to command the killing of thousands of innocent people? I think today some stirred or smiled when I say what I said. I think it was rather a humoristic speech and caused no damage, no aggression. I said I smelled sulfur here. I think people were having a good time. They were smiling.

Now let's go to the bottom of the issue. Is it not a devilish action to order the invasion of a country? Lying to your own citizens? Throwing high-position bombs and highly destructive bombs against houses filled with people? Against entire peoples? You see, it is really an act of devils to use weapons of mass destruction, to use chemical weapons, against entire cities, poisoning the air, poisoning the water. In Fallujah, even the birds died. Cockroaches died. All traces of life disappeared in Fallujah. That's an act of devils.

My words are worth nothing. What matters is the truth and my words only reflect reality. It is nothing personal. It is something coming from ethics and morality. My words are just a cry, a scream, a clamor for justice, for reflection on the citizens that cannot support gross actions conducted by President Bush.

Watch it on YouTube

[ 25 September 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:
Speaking of spontaneously combusting, the Republican Party has issued their video response to Chavez's criticisms:

Red State Update

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American Bob and Doug Mackenzie's.

quote:

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TIME: Why do you attack President George W. Bush with such jolting language?

CHAVEZ: I believe words have great weight, and I want people to know exactly what I mean. I'm not attacking President Bush; I'm simply counterattacking. Bush has been attacking the world, and not just with words--with bombs. When I say these things I believe I'm speaking for many people, because they too believe this moment is our opportunity to stop the threat of a U.S. empire that uses the U.N. to justify its aggression against half the world. In Bush's speech to the U.N., he sounded as if he wants to be master of the world. I changed my original speech after reading his.

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After appearing on FOX News this weekend to defend Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's speech at the United Nations, I got the usual assortment of fair-and-balanced emails from viewers, many of whom were critical of my support of "this Satanic barbarian," as one of my critics put it.

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Bush himself opened the way for these sorts of comments with his 2002 State of the Union address, where he mysteriously allowed the Neoconservative lightweight David Frum to put into his mouth the phrase "the axis of evil" in referring to Iraq, Iran and North Korea. Critics at the time complained that they weren't an axis.

But the real problem is that "evil" is not a political term, it is a theological one. The president of a civil republic has no business trafficking in the rhetoric of evil. Besides, the best ethical theory sees evil as an attribute of acts, not of persons or countries. "Iran" is not "evil." Iran's governing officials may occasionally do evil things, but they are actions, not essences. If you call a person or a country "evil" you are demonizing them.

Having made Iran a demon, Bush refused to talk to it. At the time he put Iran in the axis of evil, reform President Mohammad Khatami had presided over candlelight vigils in Iran for the United States in the aftermath of the al-Qaeda attacks, and had called for people to people diplomacy and a "dialogue of civilizations." President Khatami has his flaws, but he was not and is not "evil."

So, having theologized international relations and turned them into moral absolutes, it is natural that Bush is subsequently paralyzed.

Bush started it. He started talking about other countries and leaders as "evil." He bears the responsibility for this importation of the absolute into our political discourse.

And having set up these theological absolutes, Bush became bound by them. He had to invade "evil" Iraq, because it was . . . evil. Bush keeps saying that Saddam Hussein was "dangerous" even if he did not have weapons of mass destruction. Apparently he was "dangerous" because he is "evil." His dangerousness was not related to actual capability to accomplish anything (which was low). He was intrinsically evil and dangerous.

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I agree with a lot of that. Also, I agree with his conclusion that:

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Bush and Chavez aren't qualified to decide that others are evil.

And the whole point of the United Nations was to foster dialogue and understanding. We had enough demonization of people after 1933. Bush's rhetoric has impeded that dialogue, and seems likely to go on doing so.

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Juan Cole wrote the following about this:

...mysteriously allowed the Neoconservative lightweight David Frum to put into his mouth the phrase "the axis of evil"...

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Venezuela's Foreign Minister Nicolas Maduro Moros asked the U.N. Security Council Thursday to respect countries in the "south," asking the international community to object to the U.S. detention of Luis Posada Carriles.

Carriles, a Cuban native with Venezuelan citizenship, was incarcerated in Venezuela after killing 73 people in the 1976 bombing of Cubana Flight 455. After escaping in 1985, he sought asylum in United States and has been held on immigration charges since, now being detained in El Paso, Texas.

"We condemn the protection given by the U.S. government," said Maduro Moros.

He also decried at a later meeting with reporters U.S. inspection policies which allowed authorities to detain and frisk him as he was trying to board a flight home Saturday.

"We cannot tolerate any longer that because of people's color of the skin, religion, nationality, they are subject to abuses in U.S. airports," Maduro Moros said.

The U.S. State Department apologized following the incident, reportedly incited by the envoy purchasing his ticket using cash within an hour of departure. UPI

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