During her effective life, I believe that Mrs Thatcher was a force for inequality in her own country and internationally. Her destructive impact on the social infrastructure of the UK is incalculable, and will take generations to repair.

[ 13 October 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]

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Originally posted by ronb:
Among the stars expected to attend: Adrew Llloyd Webber, Shirley Bassey, Tim Rice and Joan Collins. Oh, and Henry Kissinger.

Wow. What a fun night out.

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Wow. What a fun night out.

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Evidently Tony Blair will attend as well.

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And Kissinger's solo stuff sucks. He should never have left Deep Purple.

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Well, that's another thing. Always a fatal mistake to start believing your own PR.

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Is Pinochet able to make it?

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Evidently Tony Blair will attend as well.

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Pinochet on bass, of course.

Naturally the Iron Lady herself will be lead vocalist -- but if she'll accept any back-up, then Kissinger and Shirley Bassey can handle that pretty well.

"A small step for a woman, a giant leap back for womankind".

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Originally posted by lagatta:
No, I don't believe on moralising about illness and decline, but I sure as hell don't believe in loving one's enemies.

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I just wish that at least one of the people who've inflicted so much damage on their own countries or on others -- Thatcher, Kissinger, et cetera -- would realize the full awfulness and stupidity of what she or he has done, and admit in public that he or she was wrong.

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What are the drums, really? Tightly pulled skin over an empty carapace. The potential to be annoyingly noisy, but ultimately only capable of one note. Sounds like the perfect role for Mulroney, and he's even of the right vintage.

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Perfect. (And, to stretch the metaphor yet further, drums have to have thin skins).

Robert McNamara did it, but even then, it was sort of revolting to hear.

When you know that these befuddled neo-libs are responsible for the deaths of thousands, millions, can you ever forgive them? Even as they make their confessions, they look privileged.

I mean, it is important for the public record, I guess. But McNamara's admissions really sickened me.

[ 13 October 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]

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Sounds like the perfect role for Mulroney

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The General Belgrano, a warship, had been steaming towards the Falklands, but turned away well outside of the declared zone.

As it was steaming in the opposite direction, Mrs. Thatcher apparently ordered that it be fired upon. 321 Argentine draftees were killed.

A British MP tried valiantly over the years to get the documentation which would show that this action had been taken in full knowledge that the ship was complying with the British rules concerning the zone of conflict.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
illness and death are not to be moralized by intelligent people, IMHO.

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I saw a newspaper picture from the political campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child’s
Face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
Coming down on that child’s lips

Well I hope I don’t die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I’ll be a good boy, I’m trying so hard to behave
Because there’s one thing I know, I’d like to live
Long enough to savour
That’s when they finally put you in the ground
I’ll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When England was the whore of the world
Margaret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
The black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn’t
Haunted by every tiny detail
’cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
All she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his only son
And how it’s only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn’t angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say thank you straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you’ve only got the symptoms, you haven’t got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head’s like a tin-can
Filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the lord your soul to keep
I think I’ll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
’cos when they finally put you in the ground
They’ll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

[ 13 October 2005: Message edited by: Screaming Lord Byron ]

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Originally posted by jeff house:
During the Falklands war, Britain declared a no-entry zone around the Islands, and said that any Argentine ships which entered would become legitimate targets.

The General Belgrano, a warship, had been steaming towards the Falklands, but turned away well outside of the declared zone.

As it was steaming in the opposite direction, Mrs. Thatcher apparently ordered that it be fired upon. 321 Argentine draftees were killed.

A British MP tried valiantly over the years to get the documentation which would show that this action had been taken in full knowledge that the ship was complying with the British rules concerning the zone of conflict.

Due to the Official Secrets Act, almost nothing could be obtained. When Mrs. Thatcher dies, we should remember this act, too, and tell her supporters that her name cannot be cleared until all the facts are out on this atrocity.

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On April 2, 1982, Argentina attacked the British colony of the Falkland Islands, about 300 miles southeast of southern Argentina. Five days later, the British declared a 200-mile exclusion zone around the islands. On May 2, General Belgrano was about 235 miles southwest of Stanley when she was spotted by the hunter-killer submarine HMS Conqueror. The modernized Belgrano's armament included two helicopters and two quadruple Sea Cat surface-to-air missile launchers, and although she was outside of the exclusion zone, the British decided that she posed a threat to British operations. HMS Conqueror fired two torpedoes and General Belgrano went down in 55°24S, 61°32W, with the loss of 368 of her 1,091 crew. The first Argentine loss of the war, she was the largest warship sunk in combat since 1945.

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Another poem about Thatcher, courtesy of Adrian Mole.

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Originally posted by josh:

Is Pinochet able to make it?

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Originally posted by skdadl:

[Edited to say: in response to obscurantist:]

Robert McNamara did it, but even then, it was sort of revolting to hear.

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"If he was a poisonous son-of-a-bitch while he was alive, dying certainly hasn't improved him a goddamned bit."

-- Hunter S. Thompson, responding to criticism over his obituary of Richard M. Nixon.

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Even Thatcher reveals her doubts about Iraq war

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What's the big deal? The Brits were at war with the Argies. It wasn't a tea party. The General Belgrano posed a threat, so she was sunk. If the Argies didn't want her sunk, they should have stayed in port.

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This is, of course what apologists for Thatcher say. But she won't let anyone look at the archives to determine if it is true.

For example, the British declared a no-entry zone around the Falklands. The Belgrano had been going there, but turned away, and was heading away when blown to bits along with 300 plus human beings.

So, why declare a no-entry zone if you are do not intend to respect it?

The Belgrano was a ship which was commissioned in 1939. It was not a threat unless the soldiers onboard were disembarked at Falklands. When the ship turned away, the threat had substantially abated.

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It's her party and she can dump on Blair if she wants to

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My favourite Thatcher sketch was her swan song, after she'd been kicked out by her caucus. Dressed as Britannica (or Boudicea, or whoever), she sat on a throne and sang "My Way" -- the soundtrack running over a video collage of the Belgrano blowing up, striking miners being clubbed by police, unemployment lines, inner-city slums, race riots, elderly Tories rioting over the poll tax, etc., etc.

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Originally posted by jeff house:
Mr. Goon says:

Mr. Goon may think that killing three hundred conscripts in these circumstances is "no big deal." I think it IS a big deal, and I think it is appalling that The Official Secrets Act prevents investigators from looking into the British side of things.

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I seem to remember the majority of the crew being young naval cadets.
So, we've got an obsolete cruiser, no real threat to any RN ship, sailing
awayfrom the exclusion zone in the direction of home - the only reason to sink the Belgrano was as a morale booster. There was no military reason to sink it.

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: Screaming Lord Byron ]

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Mother reading:: How long was Margaret Thatcher Prime Minster?

A: 11 years.
B: 900 years.
C: 3000 years.

Oh...It's a trick question. They want to say a) 11 years, which makes me think it's b) 900 years. It was a very long time...

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Indeed it was.

[ 14 October 2005: Message edited by: Hinterland ]

STAND DOWN MARGARET

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Originally posted by Aric H:
The main reason I posted this was just to mention that it was Thatcher's 80th birthday and for it to be one of those occasions where we try to be reasonably nice for a day to someone even though we don't like their policies.

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That's OK, Aric. I just wanted to use it as an occasion to be reasonably nasty to the deplorable old trout and her venomous brood of co-conspirators, sycophants and mush-minded, moronic acolytes who have been relentlessly befouling our planet and sabotaging our civilization for a good quarter-century or so.

I personally see no reason to be nice to this heartless den-mother of neo-con twattery. I won't dance on her grave, but I'm not going to be nice because it's the done thing. I'd much rather she'd never had a career to commemorate in the first place.

[ 16 October 2005: Message edited by: Screaming Lord Byron ]