On that day every one of us will give an account of the things we have done, whether GOOD or EVIL.

Read on for more information.
http://biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=54&chapter=5&version=31

May God save our Land, and bless His people.

Both He and Morgantaler Kill - and destroy innocent life. Both will be judged in the last day for their horrible deeds, unless they repent and turn to the Savior - JESUS CHRIST

a pilgrim in a foreign land
...Stove

[ 13 May 2005: Message edited by: Stove ]

[ 12 May 2005: Message edited by: Jumble ]

The preposterous nature of UWO's decision to honor a man for tearing - ripping - burning & disposing of little babies is beyond rational.

Please understand that these men will one day bow their knee to Jesus in utter fear of who HE is - For as their judge HE will condemn all who disregard HIS words to everlasting destruction.

But He will save those who love and serve him to EVERLASTING life - which is exactly why I so look forward to the GREAT and TERRIBLE judgement day of GOD.

In Christ,
Stove

[ 13 May 2005: Message edited by: Stove ]

quote:

---

why I so look forward to the GREAT and TERRIBLE judgement day of GOD.

---

quote:

---

When you're a Stove, you burn.

---

Whenever someone posts something reasonable they are booted. See perfect example here:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000615

Whenever someone posts something reasonable they are booted. See perfect example here:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000615

quote:

---

living trees:rabble.ca is a useless waste of time.

---

quote:

---

London North Centre NDP presents a public screening of

CHOICE: The Henry Morgentaler Story

Tuesday May 31, 2005, 7:00 pm
Aeolian Hall
795 Dundas St. E. at Rectory

Guest Speaker: Judy Rebick, Feminist, Activist and Author
CAW-Sam Gindin Chair in Social Justice and Democracy,
Ryerson University, Toronto
Publisher, www.rabble.ca
Author, Ten Thousand Roses: The Making of a Feminist Revolution (2005)

$15 General Admission
$ 5 Student/Unwaged

Tickets available from:

My Green Garden, 809 Dundas St. www.mygreengarden.ca (435-1498)
Beth Guthrie, Fanshawe College Library [email protected]
(452-4275)
Barb MacQuarrie, Rm 1118 UWO Faculty of Education [email protected] (661-4023)
Julie Carl [email protected] (878-7998)

Signed copies of Ten Thousand Roses will be available for purchase.

Many thanks to Barna-Alper Productions for public viewing rights to the film.
Proceeds to support London North Centre Federal NDP.

---

quote:

---

Dear Friends and Pro-Choice Advocates;

As you know from the news, the Chair of the Board of Govenors at the University of Western Ontario wrote an open letter of protest regarding the awarding of an honourary degree to Dr. Morgentaler. The Chair has interfered in an academic decision. In his letter, the Chair provides much misleading information and challenges the process and wisdom of the Honourary Degree committee's decision. He suggests that President Davenport as chair of the committee, 'railroaded' the process. As you know, the chair doesn't even vote, unless there is a tie which was not the case.

In London, anti-choice individuals are vocal and are staging protests. It is 11:00am Wednesday and they are outside of the President's office. Pro-choice advocates are not demonstrating; they are in favour of the university's decision and see no reason, I imagine, to 'demonstrate' their approval or to disrupt convocation for hundreds of students.

But Dr. Davenport needs support.

The larger community would benefit from knowing there is broad-based approval of the university's decision to award an honourary degree to Dr. Morgentaler.

And if you are an Alumni of UWO, perhaps you would like to send a small token in recognition of the university's honouring of Dr.Morgentaler.

I would like to appeal to you to write a letter of support to Dr. Davenport, the London Free Press and the Globe and Mail. Here are the e-mails for the above recipients.

Dr. Paul Davenport - [email protected]

Chris Nixon - LFP - [email protected]

Globe and Mail - [email protected]

If you could also forward this request to other supporters, thank-you for your time and support.

Sincerely,

Kim Luton
President
CARAL

---

quote:

---

London North Centre NDP presents a public screening of

CHOICE: The Henry Morgentaler Story

Tuesday May 31, 2005, 7:00 pm
Aeolian Hall
795 Dundas St. E. at Rectory

---

No doubt to be disrupted by many anti-abortionists.

Now Audra stifled him so I'm cut off at the pass. Have to put the old Concordance away and calm myself down a bit.

I am particularly fond of the scripture which states if any of you are the reason even one of these, my lambs, turns away from me it would be better for you had you never been born... and guys like him are why people like me wouldn't be caught dead in his company!!

Whut it is, ya see, is this, it's thet when ya don' bother ta teachem to THINK ya got them fer life. Hallelujah. Praise the name. Wind up the key, point'em in the direction you wish them ta go and when they's old they shore won't depart frum it...like the little pink bunny they jes' keep on a-goin' and a-goin' and...

The university was aware at the time of making the invitation to Morgentaler that they would require that some students not be able to have their family present in full. They chose to have Morgentaler rather than allow students to have their families. That is something the University is responsible for so I won't assign responsibility for that elsewhere.

Other protests and other forms of activism are acceptable but I don't want to spoil a graduation. it's a special occasion.

quote:

---

Will it be required for all universities to submit their politically correct and cleansed honourary degree lists to small-minded, medieval, bible thumpers for vetting?

---

I would imagine that they should have some forum for assessing whether or not the student body wishes to have their family and friends present or limitations on this placed so that Henry can attend their graduation. I would think that everyone's focus at graduation should be on the students. Mr. Davenport, however, has made graduation a forum for pro-choice activism. I remain of the view that prolifers should respectfully not attend on that day and allow families to enjoy the accomplishments of their children.

[ 20 May 2005: Message edited by: Hailey ]

But universities are different. Principle is supposed to matter to them. Conferring an honorary degree on a person of distinction is something that the university does, to body forth its principles, and those principles are not up for voting each year among the graduating students and their families.

quote:

---

The university was aware at the time of making the invitation to Morgentaler that they would require that some students not be able to have their family present in full. They chose to have Morgentaler rather than allow students to have their families. That is something the University is responsible for so I won't assign responsibility for that elsewhere.

---

quote:

---

Concerns over security and the size of the crowd has prompted the University of Western Ontario to restrict access to the convocation ceremony at which Dr. Henry Morgentaler will be honoured. May 9th

---

quote:

---

Sorry, Hailey, but universities, like, we hope, Parliament, are not Wal-Mart.

---

Good point.

I remain sad that students after enjoying University life for four or more years won't be able to have family gathering but I do see your point.

quote:

---

Conferring an honorary degree on a person of distinction is something that the university does, to body forth its principles, [QUOTE]

---

Yes,it has become apparent that this was and is about Mr. Davenport's principles.

quote:

---

See, now that is a lie. A bald faced lie.
The university only began limiting invitations and admissions in the past week or two under threat of disruption and protest from anti-choice bigots.

---

Without question the limiting of guests was more recent but unless Mr. Davenport is a very foolish man he realized at the time of the decision that he was inviting controversy with all of the disruptions attached to that. If you are suggesting he didn't realize that then you are not assigning him credit. He's got to be a bright guy.

He also had the option of varying his plans so that he didn't have to retract tickets but he didn't.

As Skdadl said it was a matter of his principles.

Aren't you ashamed of yourself? To keep claiming that these are only Mr Davenport's principles?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hailey:
... unless Mr. Davenport is a very foolish man he realized at the time of the decision that he was inviting controversy ...

---

quote:

---

Aren't you ashamed of yourself? To keep claiming that these are only Mr Davenport's principles?

Either you know nothing about how universities operate, how these decisions would have been taken by the people who are rightly entrusted to take them (ie: not any sleazy fund-raising board of governors), or you are purposely twisting the truth

---

I don't know all of the details around the decision-making but I understand that it would have to be a team decision with majority rule. It would HAVE to be bigger than one person. I am not 100% certain but that would be my guess. I say Mr. Davenport because that's the same most of the correspondence with feedback, positive and negative, is being sent.

quote:

---

Just as some would shift the responsibility for the actions of the Bush administration to those who report on those actions, you want to shift the responsibility for the actions of a noisy minority to the University. It won't be Davenport or anyone else connected with this decision who will be disrupting the graduation ceremonies and it's dishonest to pretend otherwise.

---

I don't quite see that as the same as I believe reporting on the Bush Administration, so long as it's accurate, is a public service. I don't quite see the Henry decision the same way.

Mr. Davenport and his colleagues made the decision to invite a controversial person and all of the ramifications that came with that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hailey:
Mr. Davenport and his colleagues made the decision to invite a controversial person and all of the ramifications that came with that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hailey:

I don't quite see the Henry decision the same way. .

---

quote:

---

"[T]he Henry decision"?? Still refusing to give him his professional title, rebuked by moderators for "Mr." Morgentaler, now it's "Henry". WTF?

---

The person that started the thread didn't even use the term Dr. before his surname.

And if you will note Scott's post please the NDP is circulating an email that reads, in part:

quote:

---

CHOICE: The Henry Morgentaler Story

---

I don't see the word Doctor in the title and it's a prochoice advertisement.

I've often seen people here just refer to him as Morgentaler and omitted any prefix.

Morgentaler is ok, although, of course, quite out of character for you, Miss Hailey.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hailey:
I have not used the term Mr out of respect for Audra's request that I not.

---

[ 20 May 2005: Message edited by: Hailey ]

To me this awarding of the honourary degree is very fitting. Henry Morgentaler a survivor of the Nazi death camps, someone who grew up witnessing persecution and racism first hand comes to Canada to have a better life. In spite of all he had been through or maybe because of his experiences dealing with racism and Nazism first hand he devotes his life to an issue of fundemantal importance. The issue of a woman's right to choose what is best for their lives and their bodies. In the course of this he has faced fines and criminal proceedings and had his life threatened too many times to mention.

Maybe just maybe he will be able to instill in the graduating class of the UWO the lesson of perceverence. The lesson of triumph in the face of tragedy. The lesson of survival in what surely must have been the darkest of the dark.

Did it ever occur to you that the students have already had their graduation politicized by the unilateral decision to honor such a controversial figure in the first place? It's ALREADY been turned into an ideological statement. By doing so, whomever made that decision has made the graduation fair game for a protest. If you were honestly concerned about letting the students just enjoy their day, then you'd agree that if the university wants to hand out the honorary degree, they should do it at another date.
None of you seem concerned about what the pro-life students think of their graduation being railroaded by the presence of someone they think of as a cold-blooded murderer. I bet that makes them slightly unhappy...but then again they disagree with your ideological point of biew so it's okay, right?

If the university was handing out a degree to a famous pro-life figure, you people know damn well that you'd be the first people on the picket lines protesting, and don't pretend you wouldn't be there.

'Free speech for all, unless you aren't a liberal'

quote:

---

Originally posted by miles:
I did love some of the earlier comments made. Especially the ones about Dr. Morgentaler being judged by God or something like that.

To me this awarding of the honourary degree is very fitting. Henry Morgentaler a survivor of the Nazi death camps, someone who grew up witnessing persecution and racism first hand comes to Canada to have a better life. In spite of all he had been through or maybe because of his experiences dealing with racism and Nazism first hand he devotes his life to an issue of fundemantal importance.
60 years ago he was liberated from death's doorstep. Today he is honoured for his survival.

---

cute. A survivor of the nazi euthanasia and gas programs, which brutally and mercilessly killed millions of innocent people, escaped such horrible conditions, surviving and emigrating to canada....

....where he fought for the 'right' to establish a program that brutally and mercilessly kills millions of innocent children every year. Ironic, isnt it? Of all people, you would think that he would be the one to oppose such brutal and evil campaigns. Some people never learn from history.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mush:
Students were given the choice to receive their degrees at different a different ceremony. I'm told two took this option. For the most part, students support choice. Give it up, already.

---

quote:

---

give me a break. Half of you are saying that the 'anti-choicers' (the word in itself shows how far you've been brainwashed your own propaganda) shouldn't protest but should stay home because they'd ruin the students graduation with their pro-life message

---

I am quite prolife and I have expressed my hesitance around this. I think it has the capacity to disrupt the event and take away from a joyous family event. I respect all of the intentions but I just struggle with it.

I appreciate that for many students their graduation was ruined by the inclusion of this gentleman as an honoured guest. Even those who do not identify with the prolife movement may feel that the controversy was unneeded, that the reduction of guests will mean valued family members may not be able to attend, and so forth. There will also be people where people forget a critical piece of ID and they get turned away from their child's graduation. In short even non-prolife people will see this as a bit of a headache. Some will be frustrated with the University and some with the actual people protesting.

Certainly those youth who are prolife have a different set of issues.

My agreeing with you that UWO invited the original problems doesn't negate my belief that the most generous thing to do is to protest in other ways that don't disrupt the students.

quote:

---

Did it ever occur to you that the students have already had their graduation politicized by the unilateral decision to honor such a controversial figure in the first place? It's ALREADY been turned into an ideological statement. By doing so, whomever made that decision has made the graduation fair game for a protest.

---

Mr. Davenport in my opinion along with his colleagues made a clear political statement and showed their clear support for the prochoice movement. That is obviously going to provoke a fair reaction from the community but it should be towards the organizational structure and not the students.

I don't consider graduation fair game - two wrongs don't make a right.

quote:

---

If you were honestly concerned about letting the students just enjoy their day, then you'd agree that if the university wants to hand out the honorary degree, they should do it at another date.

---

I agree the University had various options including having him there via videoconference or honouring him on a different date. They did not show those options because they are profoundly committed to prochoice principles and obviously wish to show unabashed allegiance to that. I am not sure that that would give ME the right to disrupt someone's graduation.

quote:

---

None of you seem concerned about what the pro-life students think of their graduation being railroaded by the presence of someone they think of as a cold-blooded murderer. I bet that makes them slightly unhappy...but then again they disagree with your ideological point of biew so it's okay, right?

---

I feel particularly badly for those who are prolife but my compassion extends to every student who has had to limit family members and/or had their graduation become a circus.

quote:

---

If the university was handing out a degree to a famous pro-life figure, you people know damn well that you'd be the first people on the picket lines protesting, and don't pretend you wouldn't be there.

---

That is probably true. Having said I guess I'm wondering why you are using prochoice people as your moral compass if you feel that they are people who dont share your moral view of the world?

quote:

---

Possibly, but then again if you only surround yourselves with those that agree with you then you are only doing a disservice to yourself.

---

I'd agreed.

quote:

---

Students were given the choice to receive their degrees at different a different ceremony. I'm told two took this option. For the most part, students support choice.

---

I think that many students with reservations about the current arrangements would still attend so that they could enjoy a large gathering with friends and fellow students. It would be difficult to attend a small scale event separated from those who were your colleagues.

I don't think that you can interpret that as support for UWO's decision. I think most could do without the controversy even if they are prochoice or neutral on the issue. Most would prefer to attend an event with fewer disruptions and more family-oriented in nature.

I would be interested if they have done an actual poll? To me that would speak more clearly than attendance issues.

quote:

---

By the way, i know you're probably really tempted to ban me now. I wonder how much i can voice my own opinion before you guys decide that 'free speech' only counts if i agree.

---

One of the struggles that you might encounter particularly within the context of this forum is that it's got a feminist focus and posts that are anti-feminists tend to be unwelcomed. There is more of a comfort zone with posting challenges to that thinking. This particular section has a pro-feminist slant.

You probably didn't win friends with that particular thought. That's a guess though! Maybe I'll be surprised!

quote:

---

i am commenting on the fact that some are saying protestors shouldn't attend as it would politicize the event, which had already happened by the fact that the degree was being granted to such a controversial figure.

---

To the sensible person who posted earlier: Well said, but i'd still disagree with some points. Giving out that degree already crosses the line of comfort for students. If the university wanted to be blatantly 'pro-choice', then that's fine: most universities are abysses for people with pro-life opinions. But to do so at someone's convocation already has the effect of making people uncomfortable. And honestly, i fail to see how a quiet protest outside would make other students any more uncomfortable. The university stepped over that line it when they gave out that degree.

To the rest of you here, and whomever banned me for being a modern, opinionated woman: Bravo! You have shown yourself to be the true, hypocritical, anti-women activists you are! You have revealed your utter hypocrisy and pathetic, twisted form of femnism. You have shown that you of course stand up for women, but only the women who promote your narrow-one sided view of what a feminist should be. Sorry if you're made uncomfortable, as the sensible poster suggested, but strong women (real feminists!) face the fact that this is the real world and that life isn't some perfect fantasy where everyone agrees with you. Get used to it fascists.

God, I LOVE it when I reveal people like you for who you are.

have a great life dis-empowering women!

[ 02 June 2005: Message edited by: hypocriticalfascistrabblepeons ]

[ 02 June 2005: Message edited by: hypocriticalfascistrabblepeons ]

Email:

audra(at)rabble(dot)ca

[ 02 June 2005: Message edited by: Anchoress ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hailey:
Well...I'm finally making progress with my bulimia and I look at her picture...makes me want to vomit

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Webgear:
I think it should be the woman's choice to do what she wants with her baby. Its her body, her life.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Webgear:
I think it should be the woman's choice to do what she wants with her baby. Its her body,her life.

And do we realy need a lot more kids running around that do not have parents that want to look after them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarysLegionary:
Its not your body. its Gods body. we have parents in this world who would die to have a baby.

---

Na mary it's not the Goddess's body. and quite clearly the Bible you follow says we were given freewill and our own body.

However, apparently you were hiding to deep in the depths to get a good handle on the fact that your Bible tells you not to judge.

If people would die to have a baby that is there choice, people also die because they do not want to have a baby it too is their choice.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarysLegionary:

Its not your body. its Gods body. we have parents in this world who would die to have a baby. yet selfish women murder their little accidents because its inconvenient and their lazy.

---

I shall not post here again. Remember when you said that, liar?

Here's what I wrote about it on my blog and I will have a piece on rabble and in the Globe and Mail tomorrow.

The ceremony giving Morgentaler the honorary degree was an incredibly moving ceremony with an unprecendent two standing ovations. More faculty showed up than ever before to a convocation ceremony and everyone there felt incredibly proud of their university for taking a controversial decision and sticking with it despite some terrific pressure including loss of funding.

For me it was as Cheree MacDonald from OCAC said when I wondered why two old radicals like her and I were crying at such a mainstream event, "it shows the depth of the victory." Indeed it did. And it was wonderful to see our great warrior finally get the recognition he deserves.

[ 16 June 2005: Message edited by: Judes ]more

[ 16 June 2005: Message edited by: Judes ]

quote:

---

"The most important factor is that there are fewer unwanted children, fewer children likely to be abused, brutalized or neglected ... children so victimized they may grow up for a thirst for vengeance which seeks an outlet in violence," he said.

---

quote:

---

Keep up the good work, Henry. Keep on executing those criminals before they are born.

---

Get banned.

[ 16 June 2005: Message edited by: Scout ]

quote:

---

Dr. Henry Morgentaler: The issue of the right to abortion is one of the most controversial ethical issues of our time. The right to abortion on request is part of the struggle for the emancipation of women.

---

Tersely cogent, isn't he? I don't think the CBC included that quote on As It Happens today. But they did include the following:

quote:

---

Dr. Morgentaler: Reproductive freedom and good access to medical abortion means that women will be able to give life to wanted babies at a time when they can provide love, care and nurturing. Well-loved children grow into adults who do not build concentration camps; do not rape and do not murder.

---

I hope that Dr. Morgentaler is right. Sometimes I think that human beings are quite capable of the kind of cognitive dissonance that enables them to take part in "orgies of cruelty and inhumanity of man" like the Holocaust, to use the good doctor's description, even when they are loved. The bitter truth is that the weeds of "racist, dogmatic and irrational ideology" still find forces of support in today's world. Hate is still strong and unrepentant and that makes Morgentaler's acccomplishments all the more outstanding.

I was especially glad that you made this point:

quote:

---

In fact, the local media in London greatly exaggerated the opposition. They predicted a thousand or more protesters. It reminded me of the struggle 20 years ago when the ferocity of the anti-choice protests suggested much more support than they actually had. Ironically, local media attention to the protests meant that the national media was here in huge numbers to see that most of us support Dr. Morgentaler and what he has accomplished.

---

I was remembering this a.m., as I read Judes's column, my own graduation, which was marked by a quieter but still somewhat disruptive protest: there was some dispute going on between faculty and admin at the time, and about half of my favourite professors signalled their discontent by boycotting convocation.

I would have enjoyed hearing Anne Cameron’s words!

I congratulate Dr. Henry Morgentaler for his courage, his commitment and his support of women’s right to self-determination. I congratulate the university for honouring him.

Pidjoman “Why does everyone keep labeling pro-life as conservative... this is supposed to be an open forum for intellectual thought. Please don't generalize.”

I would supplement your characterization of this group of people that wants to control not only their world but the world (the very bodies-N.Beltov) of others. Perhaps it is also a kind of carelessness or inattentiveness of thought on their part.

Here's what I mean. The more we learn about life the more we discover that its boundaries are harder and harder to define. One thing flows into another and the pattern should be familliar to most reflective human beings. The flip side of this truth is that all life is, of course, interconnected. Perhaps then, this rigidity of thought on the part of the "pro" life crowd is simply the deeper reflection of an unwillingnes to acknowledge the fluidity of life's boundaries. Perhaps it is not just "their idea of the ONE GOD" but the pattern of thought they have embedded themselves into: rigid, inflexible, with a Harper-like constipated expression of dissatisfaction permanently etched on their faces.
[Sorry, just had to throw that in.]

quote:

---

citizen: What could we call them?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by george_grant:
Wonderful! Let's condone the death of innocent life! (baby, fetus, whatever you want to call it, it's still life)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stove:
It is very interesting that Bin Ladin has been brought up.

Both He and Morgantaler Kill - and destroy innocent life. Both will be judged in the last day for their horrible deeds, unless they repent and turn to the Savior - JESUS CHRIST

a pilgrim in a foreign land
...Stove

[ 13 May 2005: Message edited by: Stove ]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by audra trower williams:
The IP is not George Grant's. But I banned Stove, as well.

---

Just for the record, Audra, some of us care about our security online, and take measures to protect it. My internet-facing ip address changes constantly (and randomly, I might add). If you'd like more information, just check out the following website:

http://tor.eff.org/overview.html

Tor: An anonymous Internet communication system

Tor is a toolset for a wide range of organizations and people that want to improve their safety and security on the Internet. Using Tor can help you anonymize web browsing and publishing, instant messaging, IRC, SSH, and more. Tor also provides a platform on which software developers can build new applications with built-in anonymity, safety, and privacy features.

Your traffic is safer when you use Tor, because communications are bounced around a distributed network of servers, called onion routers. Instead of taking a direct route from source to destination, data packets on the Tor network take a random pathway through several servers that cover your tracks so no observer at any single point can tell where the data came from or where it's going. This makes it hard for recipients, observers, and even the onion routers themselves to figure out who and where you are. Tor's technology aims to provide Internet users with protection against "traffic analysis," a form of network surveillance that threatens personal anonymity and privacy, confidential business activities and relationships, and state security.

[ 18 June 2005: Message edited by: vorlon ]

I tend to think of this way of viewing the world as "mono-mind". It is a simpler world for those who are confident that their Jesus is the "one way" into heaven.

The person who received an honourary degree that day was one of the high-up Vice Presidents of TD Bank, who was, as it was described in the program, a close and personal friend of J. Robert Pritchard, who was the head of U of T then.

I remember two things about TD dude's speech. First he said how reckless Liberal spending in the 70's was responsible for the huge debt today, and second, how he has this great program at TD where he forces (my word, not his) his employees to volunteer certain hours per week. Now, I guess I have no problem with making banker types do that (although I'm a bit afraid of who they get foisted upon), however, the "forcing" does leave me with a sense of TD dude kinda missing the point of volunteerism and just using his power, as he clearly does for other parts of his job, in a way to enforce his own worldview on his underlings.

I was shocked and offended by his speech, and wrote a letter of complaint to Pritchard's office. TD dude, for many many reasons, was an offensive recipient of an honourary degree. I could have given the names of many tireless community activists who would have been much more worthy of such a designation.