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How do you present yourself at work and in social situations? The same, or differently?

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When I read this line I thought you were asking about how you present yourself in your mannerisms as opposed to your style of dress and it got me wondering...

[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: nonesuch ]

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Trisha wrote -

"Of course, those [party persona vs. business persona] are the extremes. Most of life is somewhere in between.

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Compare sometime how someone you know is, say, when they're out with some friends for the evening compared to how they are when they're with their parents. That's often one of the biggest extremes and it can be rather instructive. A lot of people aren't even aware of how their vocal tone, vocabulary usage, body language, and even how they dress will be different when they're going to see their parents than in just about any other setting. People tend to either make more accommodations in their own presentation for their parents than they would in any other setting or sometimes they will go to the opposite extreme and use "little things" or even wholesale changes as a way of rebelling against the perceived power differential.

Most people have a whole host of socially appropriate "masks" that they've created and wear, a kind of internal self-attenuator and self-magnifier for various aspects of their personality that varies situationally. Only rarely is the "whole person" out there for all to see. Instead they wear their "on the subway" mask, their "business" mask, their "talking to the boss" mask, their "at the doctor's office" mask, their "par-tay!" mask, their "Uh-oh, Mom's here" mask, and dozens or even hundreds of others. The differences between these can be anything from extremely subtle to quite gross. People are not generally aware they're even doing it, or at least most of the aspects of it, though they switch between them at will. They know they have their work wardrobe, their play wardrobe, and what's in between, but the differences between the masks they wear go quite a lot farther than that.

I've long wondered if the reason so many people enjoy getting drunk, stoned, whatever, is that it allows them, if only for a little while, at least the illusion of dropping all those masks and just being themselves.

I also like being around different people when their personalities match a part of my personality that I feel like expressing at that particular time. I'll call up one person if I want to go to the ballet or another if I feel like hanging out in a pool hall. I don't feel like I'm being fake in either of these situations although I'm acting in a completely different manner in both.

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I've long wondered if the reason so many people enjoy getting drunk, stoned, whatever, is that it allows them, if only for a little while, at least the illusion of dropping all those masks and just being themselves.

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Welcome to Babble Myria!

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dee wrote -

"Welcome to Babble Myria!"

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Thank you .

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dee wrote -

"I'm not sure I'm comfortable with describing the different aspects of personality as "masks". To me a mask is something that covers up what is real."

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Perhaps the term is a tad unfortunate in some of its connotations, it's just a metaphor I've been using in my own analysis of how interpersonal relationships work for years so I use it out of habit. The other analogy I've used is that of a crystal that only shows one of it's facets at any given time. What you see is indeed the crystal, but only part of the whole - that part which it wishes to show at any given time. Unfortunately the latter analogy, while perhaps more accurate, doesn't lend itself to verbal shorthand.

At least as I see it, the masks people tend to wear aren't usually about being real or fake, though they can sometimes be used that way. They aren't even about covering up parts of ourselves, but more attenuating (lowering) some parts of our personality and perhaps magnifying (accenting) other parts in a manner that we feel is situationally appropriate.

While there are exceptions, just about everyone does cover up some parts of themselves that are very real. They don't tell their boss how terminally moronic they think the latest company policy is. They try and be nice, or at least civil, to people they in reality despise and would much rather see consigned to the third ring of hell as soon as absolutely possible. They try and be comforting and supportive when listening to their friend's latest tale of woeful dating when they'd really rather yell at her to grow up and stop dating morons because they feel that supporting her will help her at least feel better and yelling at her will only hurt her and accomplish no good whatsoever. They put on their happy and polite face when going over to see Mom and Dad, even when they don't necessarily feel like doing so, and they don't act the same as they would around their friends because doing so would cause conflicts that they'd rather avoid and which would serve no good purpose - even if they do maybe wear a mini every time because they know it drives Mom batty.

I don't really see this as a Bad Thing(tm), really, even though it sometimes does mean covering up some aspects of ourselves, how we feel, what we think, and what we'd frankly much rather be doing. It's not usually a matter of being "fake", it's just part of getting along with all of that other mass of humanity. Most of whom are doing something similar in a sort of endless self-modifying and self-reinforcing sociological loop.

If I said everything I thought or felt, always acted in the way I most wished, always presented in my manner of dress and "looks" as I might desire, I probably wouldn't have any friends and I almost certainly wouldn't be married. But I don't, I modify all of these things dynamically depending on what I feel is situationally appropriate - and in the end I am the arbiter of that, even if some of the socially acceptable parameter limits are set externally. I try, if not always succeed, and maintain some degree of awareness concerning how I tend to change how I present myself in various circumstances and why. Most people don't seem to bother, at least as far as I can gather from those I've talked to on the subject, it is most often a completely subconscious thing that happens automatically.

I think it is important to try and examine these things periodically. A lot of these patterns tend to get set relatively early in our lives - which is why the parent one tends to be the most extreme variant - and aren't always appropriate or don't get properly modified as we get older. Perhaps it would be better if you did tell your boss what a dork he is - if perhaps not in those words. Perhaps you really should tell your friend to stop whining and stop dating idiots, maybe she would listen. But it's not an easy process. It involves risk and change, two things that most of us are a bit afraid of.

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dee wrote -

"Maybe getting drunk or stoned is a form of mask"

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For whatever it's worth, I tend to think it's the opposite. A lot of people feel some pressure to maintain their social "masks" and they don't know how not to. Being drunk or stoned or whatever allows them to at least feel like they can drop all of that, if only for a little while.

In the converse some people fear being drunk or stoned or whatever exactly because they are afraid of lowering those masks, afraid people will see too much inside and might not like what they see. Perhaps for them the masks really are fake, or they fear they are, I don't really know.

FWIW, and all that...

also, this is even more true for femme activists -- at a demo, i feel very empowered and yet i feel that that empowerment needs to be kept in check so i don't loose my day job in real life, ya know....

We all have to live in the world and associate with other people. Often the only way to do this is to hold back some of our instinctive and often more sensible reactions and push others to the forefront. All these things are still part of ourselves so not really masks. However, there are masks of things we've been taught are the "acceptable" reactions to certain situations that we do have to use sometimes. Dealing with a difficult boss is frequently one of them, dealing with your parents is often another because in many cases, the masks are from their teachings.

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If I said everything I thought or felt, always acted in the way I most wished, always presented in my manner of dress and "looks" as I might desire, I probably wouldn't have any friends

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I agree! And I'll go a little bit further and say that, to me at least, it's almost always more important to be appropriate to the occasion than anything else.

It makes me very angry when people use the phrase, "Well, I'm just being honest!" to justify their rudeness or cruelty. A lot of times, honesty isn't what the occasion calls for - politeness is! And if politeness demands that you say what the other person wants to hear rather than what you really think, then I'm happy to sacrifice the lamb of honesty to the god of civility.

It's my belief that you can raise some serious hell as long as you demonstrate good manners while you're doing it. People will let you get away with anything as long as you speak nicely, smile sweetly and shake hands confidently.

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It's my belief that you can raise some serious hell as long as you demonstrate good manners while you're doing it. People will let you get away with anything as long as you speak nicely, smile sweetly and shake hands confidently.

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Totally agree.

I try to be polite and assertive in all situations. Excluding marital combat, where different rules of engagement have been agreed to and are followed.

The idea of masks has always been interesting to me... I think that this was one reason that I began studying acting in my teens. I also think that the masks we choose reflect different facets of our character -- but the older I get, the more integrated I become.

And choosing how to dress is intimately connected with how we behave. If you play the part of the femme fatale, you can't dress like a tomboy... It just isn't effective.

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And choosing how to dress is intimately connected with how we behave. If you play the part of the femme fatale, you can't dress like a tomboy... It just isn't effective.

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Trisha wrote -

"and I'm sorry if I didn't greet you on the other thread we shared. Welcome to Babble."

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NP, and thank you.

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Trisha wrote -

"We all have to live in the world and associate with other people."

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That's basically what it boils down to - as they say, no one is an island. Getting along with others requires a certain amount of compromise. It's as often about pragmatism as anything else.

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Trisha wrote -

"I was orphaned as a teen so have very few of the inhibitions that parents impose on their children."

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I'm sure you've heard this more than enough times to be sick of it, but my condolences.

The circumstances of my upbringing were also more than a tad unusual by any measure, as a consequence I've a very different view than most when it comes to family matters. I think I have some intellectual understanding of how other people feel and are around their parents, but I lack any degree of emotional understanding - I lack the emotional knowledge and, as with many things, the intellectual knowledge alone does not suffice. For the most part it doesn't matter, I've developed my own way of handling things. It is a bit of an issue as for many of the people I peer-counsel family issues are of great importance and I just can't fully grasp that. I think it's why the "parent mask" so many people wear around their parents seems so obvious to me but apparently isn't to them.

Years ago I discussed this idea I had with a therapist. Basically I posited that under extreme circumstances some basic concepts don't get a chance to form in children/teenagers that normally would for just about anyone else. They're left to form their own variant or, if they don't, won't, or can't, it ends up a kind of developmental null-space for them. She pooh-poohed the idea, I suspect mostly because she thought I was using it as an excuse for my "issues" (self-esteem, or lack thereof, was what we were talking about specifically), but I still think there's something there. And I expect it applies to "masks" as much as anything else.

The most uncomfortable affair I've been at lately was in early November of this year. I made the top 3% of my class last year in school, and they hold a "reception" at one of the nicest reception halls at Queen's for all the people who have done so. The first part of the evening was nice because we sat as an audience for a speaker - usually a professor who has done something interesting. And that part was interesting.

But the rest of the evening was basically a cocktail party, where you stand around with glasses of wine, eat little canapes, and make small talk with complete strangers (because of course, being the top 3% means that you probably won't see any of your classmates).

I was SO bored.

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Dawna Matrix wrote -

"Everyone was very 'with it',"

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"I said "For sure. That was really Farenheit 451." His girlfriend said "Yah. It's really hot in here.""

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Apparently the it they were with did not necessarily require many operable synapses - one could be with it just fine whilst operating solely on random electrical impulses. Which, I suppose, has certain advantages, though I'm not entirely sure for whom exactly.

I am near certain there's a good paper on chaos theory to be written from your experience someday, however. A new theory to be found that would be so hot it would burn...

In the words of Def Leppard - "It's better to burn out, than fade away!".

Or perhaps she was wearing a "bimbo mask", for want of a better term. It's not that unusual to see, though it's usually easy to spot if you're paying any attention at all. It perversely takes true genius to really fake being a bimbo.

"How're ya' doin'?"

"How'm I doin' what?"

Himbos and bimbos and parties, oh my!

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Michelle wrote -

"Actually, I've never read Farenheit 451. Does that make me a bimbo, Myria? I didn't "get it" either.

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You've not read the book, but you are aware that Dawna's comment referenced a book, if not the exact meaning of the referent in question. I would tend to assume you wouldn't mistake the reference for a comment about the ambient temperature of the room. Four hundred and fifty one degrees Fahrenheit would be, to put it mildly, a tad warm - sufficiently so for paper to ignite. If someone at a party says "That was really Fahrenheit 451", would you think they were talking about the weather?

I'm not a particularly bright person by any stretch of the imagination, and there are lots of books I've not read and works I've not seen. From context I can usually gather some idea of what is meant by a particular referent, even if I'm unsure of the source or all of the nuance. Even then, if I'm not absolutely sure I find it best to refrain from comment - better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Thus I refrain more often than not, except online where I do so far too much.

If you object to my use of the terms "Bimbo/Himbo" I can certainly understand, if not agree that they lack real-world utility. But, that issue aside, no, certainly not having read Fahrenheit 451, nor not "getting" the referent, does not make one a Bimbo nor say anything about their intellect whatsoever.

Making the mistake of thinking a reference to it to be a comment about the weather... That, in my opinion, does.

FWIW...

Surely if we are going to judge people on their knowledge of 'book learning' we are committing the offense of assuming that a person is something or not based solely upon on one aspect of their person.

Should we not instead assume nothing about her as a person (or bimbo) based upon one missed reference and give her the benefit of the doubt that she is an otherwise wonderful and delightful human being.

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earthmother wrote -

"I disagree. Not having been there I can't determine the events surrounding the incident,however, the remark could have been an off hand comment, a joke or anything else."

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I do make the possibly inaccurate assumption that the incident was accurately reported in its relevant entirety and that my interpretation of that report is as it was meant. Either or both assumptions could very well be wrong. And, to be sure, one such incident is not definitive, merely indicative, even if my assumptions are correct.

In my defense, I didn't actually call this woman a Bimbo and did point out that even if so it could be a mask. I suppose at best that's weak, but there the defense shall have to rest.

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earthmother wrote -

"Should we not instead assume nothing about her as a person (or bimbo) based upon one missed reference and give her the benefit of the doubt that she is an otherwise wonderful and delightful human being."

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Perhaps we've a different connotative understanding of the term? I don't see "Bimbo" and "wonderful and delightful human being" as being mutually exclusive by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the converse, actually, but then I grew up in Southern California where bimbohood/Himbohood was raised to a high artform. I certainly would not take any offense at being thought of or termed a "Bimbo", nor think it inherently denigrating - though I do make the effort not to confirm it one way or the other. It happens quite a bit as I am not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree and in the real world, unlike the online, I am an extremely quiet person not given to voicing much of any opinion when not surrounded only by those I know quite well - interpreted by many who don't know me well to mean I have no opinion to voice. That, and I've found that there are few faster ways to convince someone - surprisingly, at least to me, especially another woman - that you're mentally deficient than to answer the question "So, what do you do for a living?" with "I'm a housewife". Such is life, I don't give it any worry as it's unlikely that their opinion is any lower than my own and it wouldn't much matter if it was. Besides, it has its advantages, which is why it's sometimes attempted as a mask.

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earthmother wrote -

"Lets not judge a book by it's cover before we've even taken it off the shelf."

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Point taken.

Anyhow, it's all moot because we weren't there, so we have no idea what kind of yucky atmosphere Dawna was dealing with before that comment. I can just imagine it from her description though - all talk about yoga and nightclubs...hmm.

Dawna, all you needed to make the night complete was a rousing debate on whether chai lattes or mochaccinos are better. Heh. Not my idea of a good time either.

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I think it dangerous to feel that we have to present a substantially different self to the work world, than we would to our friends, family, and other associates.

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I'm not so sure about that. I am a completely different person at work than outside, as are many people I know.

At work I do what needs to be done and am fairly assertive when I need to be. I don't really feel like I have much in common with my co-workers either in a cultural or policical way and therefore tend to keep to myself. I have found myself to behave this way in most office-type jobs I have had. I don't however, feel that this behaviour is dangerous or even detrimental to me in any way. I like the people I work with but there is a choice that is made not to let the relationship get past a work one (for the most part, anyway).