There were three, I believe, Chinese pairs skating, and I noticed that two of the women in the pairs were *really, really* skinny. Like, concernedly so. When I saw the first pair, I thought to myself "Hey, that girl looks a bit unhealthy." But because we all come in so many shapes and sizes, I dismissed it. But the next pair had another *really* skinny girl skating. (I only point out that they were Chinese for identification purposes, and would like to note that the third Chinese female skater looked to be in good health.)

These two girls looked really sickly skinny, and the fact that there were *two* of them I found very troubling. I mean, obviously as skating athletes they'll be mindful of their weight in order to be able to compete and facilitate doing lifts and things like that. But these girls looked absolutely anorexic, to the point where I was wondering why the commentators weren't pointing it out. They weren't just petite, or naturally skinny and therefore proportionate... they looked like there was something wrong.

I wonder if there is pressure, especially in sports which require the lifting of a partner (who would be female, usually) to keep the weight extremely low? Are eating disorders common in "the world of sports"? I would think if one was making oneself as skinny as these two skaters were, it would affect their ability to perform in that they'd be sick?

That said, though, I think it is important to remember that a lot of athletes are not in especially good health at all. There's a reason sports medicine has become a specialty. Many athletes develop repetitive-motion injuries, eg, because, as a physio once said to me, no one's mechanics are perfect and sports require extreme repetition of a small number of movements, so damage is almost inevitable. And many athletes are eating specialized diets that are massively unbalanced in one direction or another, which is often not good for general health.

In gymnasts, I've seen the emaciated look (exaggerated muscle definition on a very thin frame, thin face - but what defines it is an obvious and recent change in the person's physionomy) - it's alarming, because there is a very delicate balance between being optimally skinny but strong and weak and emaciated. It's especially delicate because the anorexic look usually coincides with post-puberty. Very intense training in ballet and gymnastics can often (normally, in my experience) delay puberty by at least a couple of years, and sometimes all it takes for puberty to happen is a few weeks break due to an injury or holidays - the body rushes to catch up, and once it has, there's no stopping it. So, it's not that unusual that the grils will react either on their own or by coaches' urging to severely restrict their calorie intake and train harder to get their weight back down.

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After years of lifting, twisting, throwing and spinning Brasseur in amateur and pro ranks, Eisler needs surgery to correct a torn rotator cuff in his right shoulder.

The injury isn't why the two are retiring -- they made that joint decision a long time ago -- but it couldn't have come at a better time.

"I've got surgery scheduled for Nov. 1, the injury is a buildup of lifting for all those years," the four-time Olympian said after a pre-show practice in Kitchener yesterday.

"It hasn't affected just skating. I can't swing a golf club, I can't shoot a hockey puck. My (four-month-old) son Ethan weighs 17 pounds and I can only hold him for a short period of time.

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When you're watching the olympics, you're watching incredibly gifted and well trained athletes making extremely hard activities seem easy. I sometimes think they should take people out of the audience and let them try, just so show how difficult what the athletes are doing is. They're fit and strong (though as Skdadl points out, they often have a lot of nagging injuries ... though statistically quite a bit less than the general public, as several studies have shown - with the caveate that given the nature of their activities a small problem hampers them more than a larger problem effects a couch potato).

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Female gymnasts (even the ones that look skinny) are very strong. Some of them have low body fat, but none of them are anorexic ... you can't maintain muscle while starving (as a hundred studies have shown, muscle is the first thing a starving body begins to canabolize). Same with figure skaters. Different people need different amounts of body fat to remain healthy - sometimes it makes you look fat, sometimes it makes you look skinny. But you can't perform at the olympic level unless you're close to your optimum level.

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Not entirely true.

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Anorexia often strikes young women who try to evade the natural process of becoming adults and who use excessive measures to maintain a thin and girlish figure--the exact description of what today's female gymnast must accomplish to stay competitive at its highest levels. For these athletes, the onset of womenhood is their biggest fear because it means developing hips or breasts that might hinder their performance. Thus, starving themselves offers the most convenient solution to their problem. In addition, many of these girls begin training specifically for this sport since the time they are toddlers. Engaging in such targeted training before the body matures could prevent them from choosing a sport that best suits their adult body type. As a result, "this could provoke a conflict in which the athlete struggles to prevent or counter the natural physical changes precipitated by growth and maturity" (Sundgot-Borgen 1994).

The second reason for gymnasts' greater drive for thinness and body dissatisfaction is the subjectivity of their judging system. A runner's achievement, for example, relies completely on speed and endurance. Even though a lean physique is important for performance in this sport, it does not determine which person is awarded first or second place. Instead, the winner is chosen according to the exact time they reach the finish line. Judging a gymnastics routine, however, is not as objective. Each judge assigns a score according to his or her own beliefs. Thus, the appearance of the performer may actually influence their perceptions and affect their ultimate decision. A tragic example of the judges' power over these athletes is an incident with gymnast Christy Henrich--a top competitor of the late 1980's who died of a multiple organ failure due to her battle with bulimia and anorexia nervosa. At a meet in Budapest, a U.S. judge commented that Henrich would have to lose weight if she wanted to make the Olympic team. Upon returning to the states, her mother recalls the first words out of her daughter's mouth: she was fat and she would have to lose weight--that was the only way she would reach her dreams.

A third reason for the greater prevalence of eating disorders among these gymnasts is their authoritarian coaches. A large percentage of coaches are constantly instructing the girls on "how to count calories, how to act, what to wear, [and] what to say in public" ("Dying to win" 1994). As a result, the only aspect of their lives they can truly control is the food they put into their bodies. Furthermore, as role models to these girls, any comment made by their coaches is taken very seriously. The reason so many of them even begin dieting is because their coach recommends that they lose weight. These athletes are so young and impressionable that such a recommendation may be seen as a requirement for improved performance. One gymnast recalls how her club coach would punish team members if they exceeded their assigned weight by "abusing them verbally, withholding meals, and confining them to a 'fat room'" ("Dying to win" 1994). This gymnast remembers vomiting 12 times a day before she finally quit the team.

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Link.

Edited to add: Another link specifically regarding figure skaters and eating disorders.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Zoot ]

I mean, these two girls are skinny. Compared to the other female skaters, as well, and to their female Chinese counterpart. I would think that one girl so skinny would be less eyebrow-raising than two on the same team. I wish I had a link to the pairs I mean...

Body types have typically been classified into three categories: ectomorph (very thin, like a dancer), mesomorph (average), and endomorph (broader in shape.) These body types have got sub categories and additional classifications that would take pages to list, but these three have been a mainstay of ye olde body classification.

Ectomorphs tend to have a hard time adding padding, be it fat or be it muscle. If you've ever hung around an ectomorph, they're kind of like stick figures that do nothing but digest food. Their metabolisms are impressively fast and when you add some exercise to an ectomorph, they practically disappear when they turn sideways. While you can fatten up an ectomorph, you really have to work at it because by the time you're done cooking some high fat food, they've already digested it and they're hungry again. (Think of Jughead in the Archie comics.)

Mesomorphs are good athletes. They pack on muscle easily. Their build is pretty average with nothing outstanding. They have a good core strength and can add weight pretty easily. Thanks to their muscle-building body type, they can usually take it off or turn it to muscle without any real visits to Jenny Craig. (Think of Reggie or Archie.)

Endomorphs are not natural athletes or natural dancers. They pack on weight by wandering past a bakery and sniffing the air. They are rounder, even when they are at their best possible weight. Endomorphs get the societal double-whammy because they first don't have the ideal body shape (the ectomorph shape) that we all want AND they tend to have to really work at being active, which means that they pack on the pounds fast and then all the ectomorphs and mesomorphs make judgements about el blobbo. Many ectomorphs lead active lives, play tennis and do aerobics in the pool and still weigh in more than the ectomorph who eats cheesedoodles on the couch all day. (Think Roseanne Barr.)

SO... what's this all mean?

It's likely that the athlete in question was an endomorph. While most of us have combinations of these body types, some people are truly only of one body type. It's possible, even probable, that to be a skater who is going to be flung into the air several times per day, she's already on a highly restrictive diet, but when you add that fast endomorph metabolism on top of that diet of grass and water AND pre-olympic nerves, you get an endomorph who should carry a pole into the shower lest she slip down the drain.

I'm not saying she didn't starve herself to a stick-figure condition, I'm just saying she may have started there and has a metabolism that keeps her there a tad more effectively than say, Ms. Harding's.

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Originally posted by eaucanada:
Unhealthily skinny clothing models, looking both heroin chic and anorexic turned up in a "health" magazine called Viva (Canadian) I scanned through yesterday. Fit and healthy people do not look pallid and skinny...healthy people glow...all ages. Its not as much about the weight..as about the overall look of well being. IMHO.

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I'd wholly agree.

You can get an ectomorph who weighs diddly, but has clearly been living on 7-11 Big Slurpees in the basement. One look at that pallid face and you want to start pumping multivitamins into them before Sally Struthers shows up their front lawn with a TV crew.

On the other hand, you can get a round, glowing endomorph who could run rings around the ectomorph, who clearly spends the day eating well, climbing the stairs and generally being healthy.

Compare the two body types and you might think at a glace that the ectomorph is healthier, but look at their comparative health and you wonder how much longer the endomorph has.

Health is truly more than what you weigh.

Mesomorphs are not "natural athletes", and ectomorphs are not "natural dancers". That's thoroughly ridiculous.

There is no one body type that make one a "natural athlete". I'm an ectomorph. Not so good at playing football, for example. On the other hand, I can run long distance and cross country ski exceptionally well -- long legs, low weight -- and lots of people who are good at other sports that I don't play at all well may have a hard time keeping up with me. Mesomorphs may have a good body type for certain sports, but endomorphs often make better body builders/weight lifters, as they have a greater ability to put on bulkier muscle.

In fact, all body types put on muscle at the same rate. The difference is that ectomorphs, at the extreme end, start with smaller, longer muscle, while endomorphs, at the opposite end of the scale, have shorter but larger musculature to begin with.

There are certain body types in certain sports/arts that are idealized, certainly. Ballet masters prefer taller ballerinas, although too tall is also not okay (and ectomorph ballerinas also blow a hole in the ectomorphs not being muscular or athletic -- what do you think dance is if not athletic?!), but Paula Abdul puts the "ectomorph = dancer" idea to the lie. So does Margie Gillis, for that matter.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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Originally posted by Zoot:
I think, Charlotte, that your analysis of body types is extremely oversimplified.

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Yeah... But for the more detailed version, you have to take my course. (Just $19.95, and if you call now, you'll get a free gift.)

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Originally posted by Zoot:

There is no one body type that make one a "natural athlete". I'm an ectomorph. Not so good at playing football, for example. On the other hand, I can run long distance and cross country ski exceptionally well.
[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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And the plural of anecdote is not data... but this isn't news.

I don't make the categories, I just buy into them. You, however, don't have to agree with them at all, but if you want to sway me away from all the reading and research that's been done on body types, you're going to need to tell me more than how fast you can run.

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Originally posted by fern hill:
Psst, Charlotte, it is babble convention not to sign one's posts since each is clearly marked with one's handle. Just to let you know. . .

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You're right, I provided an anecdotal example to illustrate my point. However, I don't see much supporting data in your post -- so I suppose it's entirely possible that you "know" the truth of what you post as much as I "know" the truth of what I post. I've done a fair bit of reading on the subject myself, and while I'm not a perinatal educator, I've been involved in athletics and the performing arts for a number of years, hence exposing myself to the issues of body type relating to activities/performance.

Now, if you don't want to post anything corroborating some of these sweeping generalities you've made, fine. However, you can't just advertise a class you're giving and expect me to just accept what you've said as an *expert* without creating any sort of supporting argument. So far, you've only given an opinion, which I am free to disagree with, given my own research and experience.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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Endomorphs get the societal double-whammy because they first don't have the ideal body shape (the ectomorph shape) that we all want

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Its interesting you say the ectomorph shape is the 'ideal' ... I always thought it was mesomorph? Or is that a difference in our culture's ideals for men and women?

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Originally posted by Zoot:
However, you can't just advertise a class you're giving and expect me to just accept what you've said as an *expert* without creating any sort of supporting argument. So far, you've only given an opinion, which I am free to disagree with, given my own research and experience.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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Err... ummm... Just so you know... there's no class for $19.95. Alas, there's not even a free gift.

As for supporting my sweeping generalizations, in the interests of supporting my claims, I typed "ectomorph" into Google. It came up with
this. I can repeat this for mesomorph and endomorph as needed. I am highly skilled with Google.

With the exception of the first hit, they all seem to support my sweeping generalizations. But then, since my intention in discussing ye olde basic body classifications was to toss more info into the thread, not write a dissertation on body types, I feel pretty safe with the handful of paragraphs I first wrote.

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Originally posted by retread:

Its interesting you say the ectomorph shape is the 'ideal' ... I always thought it was mesomorph? Or is that a difference in our culture's ideals for men and women?

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Originally posted by Zoot:
In fact, all body types put on muscle at the same rate. The difference is that ectomorphs, at the extreme end, start with smaller, longer muscle, while endomorphs, at the opposite end of the scale, have shorter but larger musculature to begin with.
[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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Actually, if you waste time reading sports physiology journals you'll find that ectomorphs tend (but only tend ... nothing is absolute in the human body it seems) to have higher percentages of slow twitch muscle - good for marathons, bad for sprinting. Mesomorphs tend to have a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle (the reverse). Fast twitch muscle is bulkier than slow twitch, hence the difference in build between sprinters and marathon runners. Everybody has some of both, and are useful for different things. But some people have extremes of one or another ... these are the kinds of folks winning in the olympics. If your genetics say you're a marathon runner no training will ever let you win a medal in the 100m, and vice versa.

As for muscle length, that's fixed by attaching points of tendons on bones and tendon length, neither of which change in an individual (short of surgery. Muscle length and thickness are independent, you get long thick, short thin, long thin, short thick and just about every possible flavor in between.

She looks unhealthily thin for the sport she's doing, but not for an average Asian woman of her age to me personally.

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Originally posted by Zoot:
Mesomorphs may have a good body type for certain sports, but endomorphs often make better body builders/weight lifters, as they have a greater ability to put on bulkier muscle.

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Frank Zane, former Mr Olympia and ectomorph

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In fact, all body types put on muscle at the same rate. The difference is that ectomorphs, at the extreme end, start with smaller, longer muscle, while endomorphs, at the opposite end of the scale, have shorter but larger musculature to begin with.

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Oooh, I think I should add to that. I think the largest difference is between what's called red muscle fiber, intermediate and white muscle fiber. I believe ectomorphs tend to have more red than white with white MF being described in medical journals as "fast twitch muscle fiber", which means that fast twitch mf tends to repair itself more easily than red, slow twitch mf. Ectomorphs have to train a different way to what meso and endo's do or they will become run-down, become discouraged and quit exercising because their immune systems are taxed-out from over-training. Overtraining is bad and causes stress to the body and immune system. Your immune system is said to be integral to repairing/building muscle and therefore sleep is crucial to proper immune function. Working out with weights or resistance training in general tends to breakdown muscle tissues and fibers. Muscle is repaired/built during the deepest phase of sleep. Consuming carbohydrates w protein is especially important for the ectomorph, and especially in the 1 hour time frame immed. after exercising. Exercise causes stress to the body, and you have to rest and eat properly to counter the effects of stress.

Another way to cause a body stress is to not eat enough and not often enough. Some people I know who are very muscley eat something as often as every hour and no more than two hours apart when they're trying to gain muscle and strength, and they're not ectomorphs. Ectomorphs I know tend to go hours without eating so much as a carrot stick. Ectomorphs tend to be very cerebral people, I've found. They'd rather read a book than eat. They often forget what time it is they're so involved in whatever it is they do. Prolonged exercise tends to cause the body to produce destructive hormones at about the one to one and half hour mark of intense exercise. Prolonged hunger also causes a body to produce the hormone cortisol. Cortisol is what's secreted into the bloodstream as a response to stress and causes lean muscle tissue to breakdown. Not eating, not enough rest and working out too long causes stress to the ectomorph's body. Not eating, not enough rest and ...

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

I don't think world class athletics has anything to do with health. If it did, there would be no need for drug testing.

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[Kreskin]You're a pharmacist who works at a Zeller's dept. store[/kreskinoff]

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I used to work for Shoppers Drug Mart, and that was bad enough.

I live very close to a Zellers that's probably the shittiest one in Canada. But like the next-door neighbour says, "Is there a good one?"

Edited to add something that's actually on topic:

We learned in gymnastics that strength and flexibility work against each other. Muscles get shorter when they get stronger, and then you have to stretch them. Male gymnasts can be very flexible, but they're not the contortionists the girls are.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Sineed ]

ETA: Contortionists? Do they paint with a brush and easel?.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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We learned in gymnastics that strength and flexibility work against each other. Muscles get shorter when they get stronger, and then you have to stretch them. Male gymnasts can be very flexible, but they're not the contortionists the girls are.

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Actually they've learned alot about the physiology of muscle the last decade or so. Muscles don't get shorter when they get stronger, you just have to stretch. There are plenty of pictures of olympic weightlifters (the lighter ones can lift up to 3 times their body weight over their head if you can believe that) who can do full splits ... these guys and gals are as muscular as anyone on the planet, and more flexible than 99% of it. Male gymnasts don't do the same contortions as females, but thats because they don't have to for their routines, they're still in the 99th percentile of flexibility, which should be impossible if muscle and flexibility were inversely related ... ie you'd expect them to be the least flexible people on the planet.

Improper training can lead to reduced flexibility. But so can just sitting around watching TV all day. Go to a weightroom, watch people warming up. You'll find the heavily muscled men and women are in general much more flexible than the lightly muscled people just learning to lift.