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Originally posted by Big D:
Joe Volpe. Man, he's awesome.

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Originally posted by Aric H:
Marlene Jennings is someone I would add as well.

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Originally posted by Aric H:
Possibly Gilles Duceppe. I also like Richard Marceau. Marlene Jennings is someone I would add as well.

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Wooohhh, that's a very big stretch! We are talking about the man who isn't going to commit extra money to foreign aid when the Liberals have been talking about it since the days of Paul Martin, SENIOR! I know we are talking about different aspects of the word "progressive", but civil liberterian issues, he's not much of a progressive.

The Court basically dictates the terms of C-38 to the Liberals. The Liberals used it as a wedge to distance themselves from the Conservatives (other than the Liberals that are on the Cons side of the wedge...oops).

In this climate of ranting lunacism, these guys showed real guts. Martin took a tough stance and stuck to it. And Cottler has been outstanding in his role, he's definitely a progressive Minister.

Without their push, this thing was dead in the water. And I hope Canadians appreciate the courage it takes to make this change with the vulgar attacks and the massive pressures these guys withstood, and the 'morality' police trying to eclipse entire our human rights history!

Jennings is great. She always is.

Maria Minna is an absolute humanitarian, very progressive, and hasn't been given much attention, but great, really nice lady.

That Menard guy from the Bloq is also not as partisan, has a real fighting spirit.

I'm sick of the partisanship, what about doing what's best for the people, when did that go out of style?

And we should pass a law that outlaws the kind of hate rhetoric that pits one part of the country against another. This has been deliberately fostered, and people shouldn't fall for it.

We'll just bust into pieces like the former Soviet Union,

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Originally posted by equalizer:

In this climate of ranting lunacism, these guys showed real guts. Martin took a tough stance and stuck to it. And Cottler has been outstanding in his role, he's definitely a progressive Minister.

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Yes Cotler has been good over this past year, HOWEVER he had a lethargic start in his early months as Justice Minister and I disliked his delay of the Supreme Court reference to add an ambiguous and badly-worded 4th question which was not even answered and helped give ammunition to the Conservatives. In his early days as Justice Minister Cotler was not as effective as Martin Cauchon was during his time in the role. For a time I ranked Cauchon (a graduate of my law school ) well above Cotler. Cotler has now moved up considerably in my estimation.

[ 01 July 2005: Message edited by: Aric H ]

But don't you think sometimes we concentrate too much on what should have been, and don't celebrate enough what really is!

It's a good result, and we have to do our part, and fight the loonies to keep it.

If we just sit back, we can lose ground. I'm for justice, equality, and will fight the buggers on any turf to keep it! I hope every progressive will do the same!

Kick the loonies butts right out of town, and show them that Canadians are not fools, we're far too seasoned to fall for their insipid garbage.

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- Pierre Paquette: élu pour la première fois aux Communes en 2000, M. Paquette est critique de son parti en matière de commerce international. Ancien dirigeant de la CSN, M. Paquette a une formation en sciences économiques. Vu comme un candidat vedette aux élections de 2000, M. Paquette est perçu par certains comme étant trop à gauche pour diriger le Bloc. Président du comité de stratégie souverainiste du Bloc québécois, M. Paquette est âgé de 40 ans.

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First MP on public record in North America to oppose the Iraq war (beat EVERY member of the NDP)

Strong opponent of missile defence in Canada

Vocal supporter of SSM

Pro-choice

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Maria Minna is an absolute humanitarian, very progressive, and hasn't been given much attention, but great, really nice lady.

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Originally posted by Big D:
Joe Volpe. Man, he's awesome. I especially like his remarks about Inky Mark being low in the gene pool. With his give-em hell attitude, I'd swear he was a real new dem.

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
I like Cauchon too, Aric. (What is your law school, btw?)

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The University of Ottawa.

Some of our famous politican law graduates to date include:

After all I've got those two (2) great Canadian progressives -- Conrad Black (Carleton) and Brian Mulroney (Laval).

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
I hope they've left room on that list for "Aric H."

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Three midely progressive tories:
- Jim Prentice, Gerard Keddy & James Moore

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You've gotta be kidding!!!

Martin--reacts to court rulings, rather than actively promotes SSM (I cannot say I'm any different on this, but being dragged into action is not "very progressive"); Reduced program spending faster than any European countries were willing to do; refusal to set a time table on foreign aids commitments; to this date, has no plans on wind power investment (as per his own election promise).

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Originally posted by Al Creed:

Nah, I'ma have to go with Gilles Duceppe. The only thing (that I can think of) that I disagree with is separation.

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Martin--reacts to court rulings, rather than actively promotes SSM (I cannot say I'm any different on this, but being dragged into action is not "very progressive"); Reduced program spending faster than any European countries were willing to do; refusal to set a time table on foreign aids commitments; to this date, has no plans on wind power investment (as per his own election promise).

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First of all Martin and Liberal government and the Liberal Party for the most party has supported same-sex marriage quite vocally, besides a couple of rogue MPs. This has been a difficult issue for Canadians on both sides of the debate and we may not always agree with the other side, but their voice is valid and so is their opinion. Just because people don't support equal marriage, and I do, doesn't mean that they are any less Canadian. Though that what governing is all about consultation and building consensus. Not just demanding that everyone respects one view. This is a huge issue for many Canadians and the Prime Minister was right to ensure that he took the necessary steps to ensure the legislation would be fair, equitable and would stand up in the courts, hence the supreme court reference. Not all Canadians understand law, rights or the Charter (which was developed by a great Liberal Pierre Trudeau). The reference assisted with educating Canadians on the rights of equality for gays and lesbians, as well as the right for religious protection for group that choose to or not to marry same-gendered couples.

Secondly, it was absolutely necessary for the Paul Martin and the Liberals to reduce program spending across the board. When Chretien/Martin inherited the government and economy from Brian Mulroney's Conservatives, the economy and federal finances were in major disarray. Canada's was plagued with debt and deficit and we were beginning to decline as a nation with a high standing of living and quality of life. Martin made the necessary leadership decision and now Canada is better for it. We can now afford to be even having this dicussion on what we spend surpluses on and how to invest in our society.

Thirdly, Canada is already a leader in investment in foreign aid and foreign assistance and has been for a long time. Martin as finance minister and Ralph Goodale has championed cancellation of debt to poorer nations. Though the PM isn't going to make some off-the-cuff decision because some idealistic musicians who have no expereince in government financing tells them to. They are going to make decisions based on Canada's ability and commitments already made to date. Article in Globe and Mail

Lastly in terms of our investments in Wind Energy, I am not sure if you have read the budget or if you have did any research on wind energy associations, but they seem to think that the Prime Minister and the Governemnt of Canada has made significant investments in Wind Energy. In fact a non-partisan national Wind Energy association, or the Canada Wind Energy Association has praised the government's actions on wind energy. See there press release: February 23, 2005 - Federal Budget Provides A Significant Boost To Canada’s Rapidly Expanding Wind Energy Industry
ACTION WILL STIMULATE $6 BILLION IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY AND SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT OF DOMESTIC MANUFACTURING CAPACITY
Ottawa – The Canadian Wind Energy Association (CanWEA) applauds the Government of Canada for its announcement in today’s federal budget that it will support the development of 4,000 MW of wind energy in Canada by quadrupling the federal Wind Power Production Incentive’s (WPPI) original 1,000 MW target.

Just south of my city, I see 5 "rogue", Liberal MPs, all pretty unanimous in being anti SSM. Just west of it, another anti-SSM, "rogue", Liberal. That's 6 MPs out of 32 Liberals who opposed. In any case, did I say anything against the Liberal caucus?

Didn't think so. I thought my point was about Martin being anything but "progressive". I take that your failure to provide any counter-claim is a silent admission of my evaluation of him.

I never questioned anyone's "Canadian-ness". But then, it's not a socialist thing to do (nor is it a Conservative thing to do, it seems to me).

I said, "Reduced program spending FASTER than any European countries were willing to do" (added the stress now).

You said, "it was absolutely necessary for the Paul Martin and the Liberals to reduce program spending across the board."

The fact that I'm arguing about the PACE of reduction, and you're supporting the NEED for reduction means that we're in more agreement than you're trying to portrait.

"When Chretien/Martin inherited the government and economy from Brian Mulroney's Conservatives"

Giving credit where it's due, it was Trudeau who drove us into a deficit situation; it was Mulroney who left the Liberals an operational surplus (i.e.: a surplus before they tacked on the interests on debt), despite being charged an arm and a leg on interests during the high interest rates in the 80's (the federal gov't borrowing from private banks and paying high interests, rather than from Bank of Canada and paying negligible interests, happens to be a product of Trudeau). Program reduction was only one factor in balancing the books--low interest rates in the 90's made debt management much easier for the Liberals. Before a Liberal claims any credit, interest rates are determined by non-political bodies.

I said, "refusal to set a time table on foreign aids commitments"--note that Geldof, 0.7%, 2015 were deliberated avoided.

you said, "some idealistic musicians who have no expereince in government financing tells them to"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid

The figure shows that some countries are already ahead of some "idealistic musicians"; and that Canada isn't the leader that you think we are.

Although, thanks for reminding me of the wind energy bit--I withdraw my case on that.

"Though I think this is the big challenge with idealistic socialists, they have big thoughts and dreams. But no pratical plans on how they will impliment their dreams. They also don't get that a good economy and good government finances are essential to supporting Canada's social safety system."

The rest of it was questionable at best.

Someone who tries to pass corporate tax cuts when cities are dying in this country, when students are going into massive debt, and we lack an cohesive and effective kyoto plan (amongst a list of many other things) is not progressive. They are very conservative.

And Paulie only latched onto the SSM debate when he found out that foaming conservative bigotry won Liberals more seats. Before that? No comment at best (don't want to cost the Liberal's their mythology).

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Originally posted by jfras:
Just because people don't support equal marriage, and I do, doesn't mean that they are any less Canadian.

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No. It DOES mean they're bigoted pieces of shit though.

Period.

Lots of Canadians are Holocaust deniers too. It doesn't make them any less Canadian.

Lots of Canadians hate women. It doesn't make them any less Canadian.