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Author Topic: Léger Marketing Poll: C 41, L 27, N 14, G 6
rasmus
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posted 28 March 2007 11:04 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Les conservateurs pourraient former un gouvernement majoritaire

quote:
Après répartition proportionnelle des 12 % d'indécis, les conservateurs se retrouvent avec 41 % des appuis, les libéraux 27 %, le NPD 12 % et le Parti vert 5 %.

Au Québec, le Bloc québécois obtient 36 %, comparativement à 26 % pour les conservateurs, 25 % pour les libéraux et 10 % pour le NPD. Ces données sont toutefois moins fiables puisque l'échantillon n'est que de 353 personnes.

D'après Anne-Marie Marois, de Léger Marketing, c'est la première fois que les conservateurs franchissent la barre des 40 % dans le cadre du Baromètre électoral fédéral, qui est réalisé tous les mois.


[ 29 March 2007: Message edited by: rasmus ]


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 28 March 2007 11:08 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Anomaly?
From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
trippie
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posted 28 March 2007 11:12 PM      Profile for trippie        Edit/Delete Post
I guess the free ride that the media has been giveing thier star candidate is working ....

As much as this makes me sick ... in the end its for the best....

We can't keep going on supporting the capitalist social system that is not making our lives better....


From: essex county | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 29 March 2007 12:03 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's not how CTV reports it.

quote:
The latest poll, from Leger Marketing, put the Conservatives at 41 per cent support. The level generally considered needed to produce a majority is 40 per cent.

The Leger poll, released to The Canadian Press, put the Liberals at 27 per cent support and the NDP at 14 per cent. Bloc support was at nine per cent and the Greens at six per cent.


Also, this is right after the budget so...


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 29 March 2007 12:09 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
14 for the NDP and 6 for the Greens make more sense after the redistribution of the undecided vote.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 29 March 2007 01:54 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A somewhat different poll I posted yesterday on the other poll thread

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/567292.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
intelligent universe
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posted 29 March 2007 02:49 AM      Profile for intelligent universe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It seems the leger poll covers the initial budget reaction - at least it agrees with other budget polls from that time while the decima poll hits on the nedative reaction that came a few days later.
From: Drayton Valley | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 29 March 2007 06:02 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The original poster has taken the numbers for C and L AFTER redistributing the undecideds and the numbers for NDP and G from BEFORE redistributing the undecideds. Perhaps they should be consistent and either give the numbers for ALL parties from either BEFORE or AFTER instead of doing a mishmash of both.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 29 March 2007 07:43 AM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post
The error is in the original Le Devoir article.
From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 29 March 2007 08:02 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The regional breakdowns for Leger are here:

http://legermarketing.com/documents/pol/070329ENG.pdf

Basically the Conservatives are gaining some ground from all the parties, but the Liberals are being hit particularly hard in BC and in Ontario.

Of course, whatever goes up must come down, and by the time we get into an election campaign things could change fast. The NDP has a more popular leader and more money than the Liberals, so we may find that the current numbers represents a floor for the NDP but a ceiling for the Liberals.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Centrist
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posted 29 March 2007 09:02 AM      Profile for Centrist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

Basically the Conservatives are gaining some ground from all the parties, but the Liberals are being hit particularly hard in BC and in Ontario.

The Mustel Group released the polling results for BC today (federal):

Con: 40% (+6)
Lib: 29% (-6)
NDP: 20% (-3)
Grn: 9% (+2)

Sample Size: 750; Error Margin: 3.6%; Undecided: 15%;

http://www.mustelgroup.com/pdf/20070329.pdf


From: BC | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 29 March 2007 09:19 AM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So in BC both the change in the NDP and the Green party is less than the margin of error. Oh well polls are what they are.
From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 29 March 2007 09:22 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I noticed in the lead up to the 2004 election and also in between the 2004 and 2006 elections that the NDP often seems to drop in BC federally in between elections but gets back into the high 20s once we get into campaign mode.

The Liberals and Greens tend to over-perform in the non-campaign period. Of course we are in uncharted waters now with having a federal Conservative government as the incumbent.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 29 March 2007 10:06 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
So in BC both the change in the NDP and the Green party is less than the margin of error. Oh well polls are what they are.

The margin of error reported is only for the value 50%. The margin of error diminishes the further you are from 50%. So, if you are polling at 20%, and the sample size is 750, the margin of error is about 1.5% for the 95% confidence interval. Which means a change of 3% is significant.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 29 March 2007 10:13 AM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post
I wonder why that point isn't made more often - or indeed ever - in the discussion of poll results. It's a good one, and worth remembering.
From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Parkdale High Park
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posted 29 March 2007 01:38 PM      Profile for Parkdale High Park     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wouldn't necessarily call this one an anomaly - two other post-budget polls had the Tories at 39% and 40%.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Parkdale High Park
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posted 29 March 2007 01:39 PM      Profile for Parkdale High Park     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh and according to Bourque there is a poll that has things CPC: 39 LPC: 22! NDP: 17 Green 10 or 11
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 29 March 2007 02:14 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yup, its right here:

http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/uploads/pages/pdfs/2007.03.29%20Pol%20Package.pdf

It's an online poll - but then again, the Angus Reid on-line poll was the most accurate in the Quebec election.

It even has the federal Liberals falling behind the NDP in Quebec!!


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 29 March 2007 02:19 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, conservatives at 40% I can buy as plausible, but the Liberals at 22? Come on...

The only reason the Angus reid poll was accurate for the Quebec election was because the ADQ got the ballot box bump instead of the Liberals


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 29 March 2007 02:24 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Or, maybe there is no "ballot box bump" when you poll on-line?

If this poll is to be believed it looks like the Liberals are getting hoisted on their own petard. They were all set to use the Green Party as a vehicle to take votes from the NDP, but instead the NDP vote looks very stable and if the Greens are taking votes from anyone it is from the Liberals!


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 29 March 2007 02:38 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
Or, maybe there is no "ballot box bump" when you poll on-line?

That might in fact be the case. People might be shy about telling a real live person about an upopular preference, but less so if it's a computer who is recording the answer.


From: . | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Red Partisan
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posted 29 March 2007 03:43 PM      Profile for Red Partisan        Edit/Delete Post
Starting to look like a mirror of the old days when Chretien managed to split the Tory and Reform vote, and win with 36%.

Looks like we are in for a long period of Tory government.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 29 March 2007 03:50 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Except that the NDP and Liberals where never the same party, so it's not at all clear that they're "splitting" the vote. In some places, current or historical NDP voters would sooner vote Tory than they would Liberal.
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 29 March 2007 03:51 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes Red Partisan, it's the fault of the NDP and the Greens.
From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 29 March 2007 04:01 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Liberals more or less run the Green party and May does what the Liberals tell her. How many days before the Libs. call up May and say "cut out you're through. We need to save the furniture"
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Red Partisan
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posted 29 March 2007 05:14 PM      Profile for Red Partisan        Edit/Delete Post
I'm not sure if it is anyone's fault. One has to let the cards fall as they may, and accept the will of the people. If you lose, well, there will always be another day.

True enough, the NDP and the Liberals did not come from the same original party. However the effect of the vote-splitting is the same. The big party (in this case the Conservatives) will be able to rack up a big majority of seats without even having a 'mandate' (if you define a 'mandate' as 40%+).

I am not necessarily saying this should happen, but in the days of Mackenzie King, the Liberals did deals with the Progressives to win power. It revitalized the Liberal Party at the time. Liberals these days will talk about the need for party renewal.

Some of us will do just fine under a Tory government. We will get to keep (or spend) more of our own money, and business opportunities will probably increase. The Liberals offer an alternative. If the people want it, fine. If not, oh well. Perhaps there are better things to do.

Divide and Rule seems to be working very well for Mr. Harper as it worked for Mr. Chretien.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 29 March 2007 06:59 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
True enough, the NDP and the Liberals did not come from the same original party. However the effect of the vote-splitting is the same. The big party (in this case the Conservatives) will be able to rack up a big majority of seats without even having a 'mandate' (if you define a 'mandate' as 40%+).

I understand what you're trying to say, but it is inaccurate to call this "vote-splitting" because that implies a single voting block to be split. There are a number of voters who might be either NDP or Liberal, but overall the two parties attract two entirely different kinds of voters. If we were to "unify" these voting blocks, we would quickly see how little basis there is to lump them together. The NDP voters, I suspect, would abandon this unified force with no delay. If they wanted to vote Liberal, they would do it.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Red Partisan
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posted 29 March 2007 08:00 PM      Profile for Red Partisan        Edit/Delete Post
I am getting a strange sense of deja vu. The argument is that the two parties are like oil and water, voters are different, etc. Exactly the same thing was being said about the PCs and the Alliance before their merger. Yet they found it necessary to get together to beat the Liberals. As well, there was a lot of bad blood between those parties, as there is now between the Liberals and the NDP.

Now, people are going to want to figure out how to beat the Tories. At least now the Greens, Liberals, and NDP agree we should have cap and trade on carbon emissions.

It will be interesting to see the parliamentary manouevers over the revamped Clean Air Act.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 29 March 2007 08:06 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Red Partisan:
At least now the Greens, Liberals, and NDP agree we should have cap and trade on carbon emissions.

Yes, finally the NDP and the Greens have come around to the Liberals' way of thinking on this important matter! Except, of course, while the Liberals were in power for 13 years it was they who did absolutely nothing to curb carbon emissions. So, we're supposed to believe that they're onside now?


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Charles
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posted 30 March 2007 09:15 AM      Profile for Charles   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Red Partisan:
[QB]I am getting a strange sense of deja vu. The argument is that the two parties are like oil and water, voters are different, etc. Exactly the same thing was being said about the PCs and the Alliance before their merger. Yet they found it necessary to get together to beat the Liberals. As well, there was a lot of bad blood between those parties, as there is now between the Liberals and the NDP.

Now, people are going to want to figure out how to beat the Tories.
QB]


I want to figure out how to beat the Tories and the Liberals. They are a common political enemy whose records in government have not embodied my values (unless under minority duress). This "my enemy's enemy is my friend" bullshit holds no water. I'm not a Liberal because a corporate party does not represent my interests. Because a party with no principles or values whatsoever can't be counted on to stand up for anything unless it happens to be in vogue politically on a given day. When deficit cutting is popular the corporate elites in the Liberal Party push that to be at the forefront of what it means to be a Liberal. When social attitudes are more conservative, so will the Liberals be (does anyone think if it weren't for new societal attitudes making it suddenly politically expedient and the pushing of the NDP on gay marriage the Liberals would ever have changed their minds on the issue so quickly and enacted the legislation?). When the mood of the country starts to move toward environmental issues suddenly the Liberals, despite their record, are an environmental party. No values. Not one. Except pursuit of power and using that power to reward their friends. I am not in common cause with any Liberal - I may want the Tories gone but I have no interest in replacing them with their slightly more maliable cousins in the Liberal Party.

As to your first point, it isn't about bad blood, it's about two parts of a single party/movement splitting apart and then finding a way to come back together. That is not the case for the Liberal Party and the NDP. There's nothing to "put back together" because they are and have always been entirely different entities with entirely different agendas. You may as well ask the NDP and Tories to come together to make sure the corruption inherent in the Liberal Party never returns to power, or the ADP and the Quebec Liberals to come together to make sure the seperatists are kept at bay. Common enemies don't mean you have enough in common to actually find common cause.


From: Halifax, NS | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Parkdale High Park
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posted 31 March 2007 09:17 AM      Profile for Parkdale High Park     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Red Partisan:
Starting to look like a mirror of the old days when Chretien managed to split the Tory and Reform vote, and win with 36%.

Looks like we are in for a long period of Tory government.


Chretien won in 1997 with 39.5% of the vote - that was his worst result in terms of the popular vote (and seats).


From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged

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