Words fail me - how to describe what we saw? I was just sick at the destruction - the entire area had been churned up, destroyed, ruined and there were dozens of assholes in ATVs and with 4X4's deliberately spinning their wheels in the creek bed, throwing up gravel and mud - the lake shore was just a mess, nothing but a churned up mud bog for as far as you could see - trees were knocked down, the area was denuded of all the little poplars and other bushes and trees. In fact the creek had been so wrecked that it wasnt sure where its channel was anymore.

I almost cired. Drunk idiots everywhere chugging down beer with their baby rednecks screaming around on baby ATVs. Total devestation of what was a beautiful tranquil area -

I got so mad I went home and called Conservation hot line guys and they went out with the RCMP who took their breathalizer and they nailed a whole lot of those jerks - they just called me to tell me.

The Conservation officer said he was as shocked and horrified as I was and he too almost cried when he saw the ruination. Also said it would take years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to restore the beach and creek to its natural state.

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Nothing you couldn't fix with a little piano wire stretched between two trees

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The river, creek and lakes are lower than they have ever been before which makes the fish habitat and eco system especially vulnerable this year anyhow.

When the water comes up the bottom along there will be nothing but silt this year, no fish food. My husband and I were thinking maybe some of these redneck assholes would like to make up the short fall and become fish food. It DOES male a good argument for guns but given their attitude I am sure they would all have them and there would be a lot of dead critters out there too if that was the case.

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As well we currently have at least six snowmobile accident victims in our hospital tying up beds.

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"Renegade skiers denude slopes running into and uprooting trees, laying waste to hundreds of acres of pristine wilderness." "Cross country skiers terrorize wild life and destroy natural habitat."

Seems a little wonky to me,

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Should we ban skiing too?

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Hmm never heard of skiers terrorizing people or creating mass destruction of nature

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Most avalanche accidents happen when people ignore these basic rules. The majority of avalanche deaths among skiers and snowboarders are caused by the skier or snowboarder themselves or somoeone in their group

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source

The disrespect these "enthusiasts" show for the forest and wildlife is the same disrespect they show for the real power of their "toys". They like to think that it's actually them who are all powerful, when really, it's a piece of machinery with great big tires and a big motor that gives them the power to destroy not only ecosystems and lovely vistas, but also themselves.

It's just plain stupid and arrogant, and the casualties associated with the sport should be warning enough to all involved that this is not something to take lightly.

[ 17 February 2003: Message edited by: Lima Bean ]

I also can't figure out how you enjoy the great outdoors by ridding something so loud you can't hear yourself think, but then that's me.

Most snowmobiler's like what they do and therefore aren't the kind of nusiance that would end up bringing upon them the wrath of society. At least around here there are marked trails that people stick to. When I was a kid it was a bit more wide open, but I don't think it's like that anymore-- because people got pissed off.

Thing is, there should be room enough for off roaders to have their patch to screw around in where they aren't bothering anyone. Old landfills?

I think in the case Kindred mentioned, an effort should be made to require restitution-- the cost of restoring the habitat-- from the people who caused the damage.

One can protect sensitive areas without having to resort to life and limb threatening booby traps-- tempting though they might be. Large rocks and other visible obstructions can take the fun out of off roading with ATV's bikes etc.

But at the same time, lets remember that there should be room enough for all in this, the second largest nation on earth.

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Thing is, there should be room enough for off roaders to have their patch to screw around in where they aren't bothering anyone. Old landfills?

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It makes it hard on legitimate responsible people who enjoy off roading or snow mobiling or whatever! I know some who wouldnt dream of littering an area with broken beer bottles or ripping it up like this - and then you have these jack asses .....

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They HAVE been given an area here, and what is their response? "No one is going to tell us where we can and cant go or what to do"

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That's pretty ignorant, and about the only way to deal with it is to get together with the conservation authority and figure out a way to make the area unwelcoming to those kinds of vandals.

And I don't mean to negate the emotional end of this. I think most of us have natural areas that for one reason or another are special to us. I know when mine suffers, I suffer too.

[ 19 February 2003: Message edited by: TommyPaineatWork ]

Tommy suggests that there's enough room for all of us to have our section of the wilderness to do with what we please, but I really don't think that's the case. IF we are prepared to leave none of the forests and mountains and rivers and lakes properly alone, pristine and free, then maybe there's enough space for every person to have their reign. But I for one am saddened at how quickly we humans are taking over the planet, filling all the space with our noise, litter, destruction, and exhaust fumes (in the cases of the jerks with the ATVs, helicopter drop offs, or motorboats etc.).

For the folks that use the ATVs for real, necessary transportation, or as a tool of utility around their farm or ranch or whatever, I'm sure that they're responsible and stuff, and they make a legitimate claim to using such vehicles. I know a fellow who lives in the suburbs, though, and has a great big truck, an ATV, a motor boat, and a trans am. In cases like his, it's nothing but greedy, redneck arrogance that allows him to go out and destroy the landscape in his loudmouthed drunken stupor.

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How about if people are just not allowed to buy these things unless they can prove that they've got X acres of property to traverse bringing in the cattle or something?

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I am as some of you know, partially disabled, and walking any long distance is difficult for me, so accessing most pristine "special" areas is just not possible. This was my one area where I could go, to walk along the beach, walk up the creek a little ways, sit and zone out - hunt for the odd gem stone brought down by high water - I have photos from the time my kids were toddlers to just a few years ago taken out there -

It was quiet, the only people I ever saw were people like me, we didnt even build fires because we didnt want to burn the trees or leave the charcoal behind - there was never a trace of garbage left behind after the few people had left.

The odd salmon strayed up stream to spawn rather than making the trek through to Adams River, the school kids released the fingerlings they had raised there every spring -

They are supposed to do that soon - within a week or two .

Another Conservation officer phoned me today and asked me if I had seen the news and seen it from the air and he said he isnt sure they can go ahead with the school program this year. He also said his little girl has been raising this fish which she has named Charlie and was so excited at releasing him next week --

They're going to gate it now, shut off access, they said they have no choice given the amount of restoration needed on such a huge area -- no access to the public. And of course that means me and other disabled people. There are so few places for partially disabled or disabled people to go to get out into the still undeveloped areas - to be outdoors like that -- and now this, the only one I know of in our immediate area is being closed.

I am telling myself its a small price for me to pay as one individual but it makes me so damn mad that it had to come to this !!

Those bloody idiots have destroyed so much in the name of stupidity and asshole behavior - a lake shore, a creek, all that fish habitat, valuable wet land where the swans and snow geese winter over, all the little trees, the soil integrity of the banks and beaches, the enjoyment of all those people who did respect that place - seniors, disabled people - responsible fishermen who launched their boats there. There is no other area for them to do that without having to travel several miles down river to the lake --

They willfully and ignorantly destroyed a very important part of our community and history.

The advertisers for these kind of vehicles tell us it's our gawd-given right to trample over all the earth's beauty, and to do it with a seriously powerful and expensive, state of the art "recreational vehicle".

It's a relatively un-tapped market, it would seem. Maybe they're shifting focus from street speedsters to forest-demolishers since the advent of photo radar or something.

They were rescued.

If the average citizen says something to one of the ATV crowd he or she is usually the target of verbal abuse; on occasion, he or she becomes the victim of an out and out assault. It is largely about attitude. These jerks carry an attitude that they have a God-given right to practice their environmental carnage (hey, it's just a beach,afterall). It is the attitude that makes this monster so difficult to deal with.

I would love to be involved with the restoration work and it could develop into something they get school kids to assist with as well.

Also, tomorrow (March 12th) there's a public forum with the Treehouse Players (highly recommended!) and several speakers talking about the issue. Info below:

Public Forum on the Fate of Ontario's Parks

Ontario Provincial Parks:
Wilderness Sanctuaries or Disneylands?

Wednesday, March 12
7 - 9 pm
Room 308, Metro Hall
55 John Street
Toronto

Speakers include:
Elizabeth Tanner, Chair of the Local Stakeholders Committee for the Kawartha Highlands
Mike Colle, Liberal MPP, Eglinton-Lawrence
Earl Manners, NDP candidate for the riding of Haliburton-Victoria-Brock (Kawartha Highlands site)
Melissa Tkachyk, Earthroots Wilderness Campaigner
Evan Ferrari, Wildlands League, Director of Parks and Protected Areas
Barry Kent MacKay, Animal Protection Institute, Toronto Star Columnist

Plus a special theatre performance by the Tree House Players, a collective of professional actors and musicians that use the performing arts to raise ecological awareness.

Come join a public forum to find out more about the threats to Ontario's Parks and Protected Areas and what you can do to help protect Ontario's wilderness.

The Kawartha Highlands and other wilderness areas across Ontario are threatened by Bill 239 "The Recreation Reserves Act", which puts commercial development and high-impact recreation ahead of conservation.

Bill 239...
> reverses protection legislation for Ontario's Park system, setting a dangerous precedent for the future of wilderness preservation in Ontario
> strips away protection for the wildlife and natural environment and replaces it with increased access and privileges for all-terrain vehicles, snowmobiles, sport hunters and commercial hunt camps.
> does not state how the natural environment and wildlife will be protected; in fact, those words are not even mentioned.

Co-sponsored by Sierra Club Eastern Canada Chapter, Earthroots and the Peaceful Parks Coalition

Furthermore, what is so great about going out and chewing up the ground, creating havoc, destroying spawning streams, etc. with these machines? Especially when they know it is wrong, or even illegal.

Well, this person believes that on some level humans are beginning to sense that our world and our society is rapidly collapsing, and that, come hell or high water, they (at least some of them) are entitled to have some fun before it does.

I am an outdoors enthusiast who fishes, hunts, camps, and goes 4X4ing in the wilderness.I have been going out in there wilderness since I was born.I respect the wilderness and like the rest of you, get extremely pissed off when idiots and morons are running loose tearing up the forest.My favorite campsite at Chehalis Lake in B.C. was burned down a few years back by some stupid fucks.These irresponsible people give the rest of us a bad name.More then once I have been confronted by drunk assholes after telling them that it is illegal to drive through a spawning creek/river, or to turn their music down at 3:00am, or not to race around the campsite on their dirt bikes.Usually myself and my "persuader" convince them in the error of their ways of threatening myself and companions.

There is nothing wrong with owning and using off-road vehicles, as long as they are used responsibily.Perhaps ATV and dirtbike owners should be licensed, like they are doing to boat owners.

The wilderness is a wonderful place to escape the rat race of everyday life.everyone should have access to it, providing they treat it with respect.

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Usually myself and my "persuader" convince them in the error of their ways of threatening myself and companions

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I assume we are to take it that your "persuader" is in fact your gun. I have never had problems with asking people to turn down their music or in suggesting that they respect nature and all its glory. Perhaps you're going about it the wrong way if it results in you having to pull a gun to remain safe. Try wearing a smile when you say it.

I would also like to point out that you might consider allowing these remarkable spots that are inaccessible by normal means to remain inaccessible. Just because you can get "off-road" and believe yourself to be responsible about it, doesn't mean it should be done.

Upon return home, I phoned the wildlife branch to report the events with the bird and the asshole.Got thanked for reporting the incident, but never found out what became of it.My buddy reported the incident the next day and was told there were several reports of said incident.

I don't look for trouble when I'm out in the woods.I'd rather be left alone with my group of friends.But I'm also not going to be intimidated or chased off by drunken assholes.

In regards to access to remote areas,I hear what you are saying Dale,but we all in the province should be able to go anywhere we want in the woods, as long as we respect the enviroment.If the enviroment is not being respected, then the areas should be closed.Actually, there are a lot of wilderness areas that are closed to motorvehicles, and bicycles because of abuse and concern for the well being of the animals and land.

But it is not all ATV types that destroy the forest.I see lots of hikers who leave their litter everywhere, cut new trails, and tromp through sensitive areas.I always come back from camping/hunting with a garbage bag full of someone elses garbage collected over my stay.And it is ALWAYS mostly empty beer cans.

I

[ 19 March 2003: Message edited by: Skullboy ]

[ 19 March 2003: Message edited by: mighty brutus ]

Skullboy, I apppreciate your efforts to keep things clean. I'm shocked at the mess people are willing to leave behind themselves. I am also shocked that people feel the need to go out to the wilderness to shake it up when the effects of passing out at 9:00pm are exactly the same in a camp ground as they are in a house.

Not wanting to spark a new rash of gun debates, I would like to make one side comment. I think the pro-gun folk do themselves a great dis-service when making comments like

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Usually myself and my "persuader" convince them in the error of their ways of threatening myself and companions.

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I don't mean to harp on this and be an asshole, but it sounds like a very trigger-happy thing to say. I can appreciate, Skullboy, that you were in a difficult situation, and what you did was a reasonable response. And having explained it, you sound like a perfectly sane individual. However, the above-mentioned quote makes it sound like you're ready to square off against anybody who looks at you the wrong way.

The 4X4 associations that I used to belong to adhered to the "Tread Lightly" program.Stick to existing trails/roads, don't go off and make your own way.Don't uneccessarily chew up the enviroment, and respect private and public lands.