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Author Topic: Schroeder goes out with some flare/flair
Transplant
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posted 12 October 2005 04:12 PM      Profile for Transplant     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Schroeder quits government, blasts U.S., Britain

Reuters - Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, who has led Germany since 1998, said for the first time on Wednesday he would not play a role in the next government, in an emotional farewell including broadsides at the United States and Britain.

In an apparent reference to Hurricane Katrina, Schroeder castigated Washington for liberal, hands-off policies that left it exposed in times of crisis. The Bush administration was widely criticised for its response to the devastating storm.

"I do not want to name any catastrophes where you can see what happens if organised state action is absent. I could name countries, but the position I still hold forbids it, but everyone knows I mean America," he said to loud applause.

[ 12 October 2005: Message edited by: Transplant ]


From: Free North America | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 12 October 2005 04:22 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No great loss. He defended the "Franco-German" model only sporadically, and supported the European Constitution, which would have, to at least some extent, enshrined the "Anglo-Saxon" economic model he supposedly detests in law. The best evidence that his defense was only rhetorical can be seen in the formation of the Left Party.

And I liked this last paragraph:

quote:

Schroeder has not given any signs of what he could do next, although companies could be keen to make use of his connections and deal-making skills, which he used as chancellor to secure lucrative deals for German industry.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Vigilante
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posted 12 October 2005 07:17 PM      Profile for Vigilante        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The idea that the state is good for catastrophies is ridiculous. The best solution for these things has always been mutal aid. The Cuban state tries this propaganda, however if one looks closely you'll see that the communal aspect of Cuba is what it's all about.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
faith
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posted 12 October 2005 07:24 PM      Profile for faith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vigilante , I agree with what you say about the community but isn't the state part of that?
I mean there are states and then there are states, your Castro type state and your Margaret Thatcher kind of state.
It was the rise of the neo-lib type state in which Margaret Thatcher and Reagun dismantled and denied the feasability of the state and the community, (even the reality of community) to such a degree that their proclomations became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

From: vancouver | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 12 October 2005 09:55 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
No great loss. He defended the "Franco-German" model only sporadically, and supported the European Constitution

My understanding is that the European constitution was backed by left of centre types in Europe and that it was shot down by rightwing xenophobes - the usual source of opposition to European intergartion.


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Wilf Day
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posted 12 October 2005 11:44 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
it was shot down by rightwing xenophobes - the usual source of opposition to European integration.

And by the Trots, who oppose everything. Good thing Trotsky is dead, or they would denounce him as a sell-out.

(Mind you, I gather a few serious French leftists may have opposed it, but I'm no expert.)


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Rufus Polson
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posted 13 October 2005 08:19 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

My understanding is

Apparently quite different from mine.


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josh
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posted 13 October 2005 09:22 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And mine as well. The "few serious French leftists" apparently constituted 60% of the Socialist Party, and while there was division among the "left of center types," more than half voted against it.

http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/2091.cfm


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 13 October 2005 11:54 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But the real opposition was from the Jean Marie LePen crowd and my attitude is that if LePen says white I say Black. if he opposed the European consititution then it must have been a mighty good constitution - otherwise why was it opposed by the neo-fascist right?
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josh
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posted 14 October 2005 10:18 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What do you mean "the real opposition"? If you're saying that a higher percentage of the far right opposed the Constitution than the left, you may be right. But so what? I'd wager that more voters from the left voted against it than from the right.

So, you're saying that if le Pen came out in support of SSM, you'd oppose it?


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 15 October 2005 12:21 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
My understanding is that the European constitution was backed by left of centre types in Europe and that it was shot down by rightwing xenophobes - the usual source of opposition to European integration.

Well, this survey of 2,015 voters right after the vote says it's more complex.

At page 48 it seems that, of about 820 No voters, 527 were from the left or the Greens, 194 were from the right, 92 stated no party affiliation, and the other 7 are rounding errors.

The 527 break down as 324 Socialist Party (55% of SP voters), 76 Greens (50% of Green voters), 65 miscellanous left (81% of them), and 62 Communist Party voters (90% of them).

The 194 break down as 121 from the moderate right (only 24% of their voters), 48 from the hard right (81% of them), and 25 miscelleanous right (61% of them.)

So yes, more voters from the left voted against it than from the right. But still the SP voters and Green voters were pretty evenly split.

Curiously, on page 14 they have different figures. I haven't read all 89 pages. Maybe there's more to be learned.

Still, it's clear from the Conclusions on p. 31 that those voting No were mainly afraid the treaty would cost France jobs, sort of like the reason the left in Canada opposed NAFTA. So 55% of the Socialist Party voters are economic nationalists, maybe in favour of European construction, but not if it costs jobs. Hardly surprising.


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Fidel
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posted 15 October 2005 01:10 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Vigilante:
The idea that the state is good for catastrophies is ridiculous. The best solution for these things has always been mutal aid. The Cuban state tries this propaganda, however if one looks closely you'll see that the communal aspect of Cuba is what it's all about.

Do either you or Morpheus have a source on this, btw ?.

[ 15 October 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 15 October 2005 05:11 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, has Scroeder in fact resigned from the leadership of the SDP? If so, is there going to be a leadership race anytime soon, and is there any liklihood that a non-Schroederite leader could be chosen?
(You know, like someone who maybe supports Social Democracy or something wild and crazy like that...)

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Wilf Day
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posted 15 October 2005 03:34 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Franz Müntefering is to become vice-chancellor and labour minister.
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:
So, has Scroeder in fact resigned from the leadership of the SDP?

That happened in February, 2004, when he resigned as chair of the SPD to concentrate, as Chancellor, on German reform processes. Franz Müntefering succeeded him as chair. That's why on election night you saw them always side-by-side, the leader and the Chancellor, equals.

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Stockholm
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posted 15 October 2005 08:25 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess from a Canadian perspective it seems bizarre for the candidate for Chancellor not to be the same person as the party leader. It wouodl be like Paul Martin being PM but someone else being leader of the Liberal party???
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Ken Burch
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posted 17 October 2005 05:00 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So is Muntefering likely to be the next chancellor candidate for the SPD?

If not, who are others who might consider it, and where would they fit on a "right-left" spectrum by SPD standards.

Finally, has the strong showing by the Left Party led to more calls for the SPD to return to a left-of-centre position, rather than continuing to push for right-wing "reforms"?

[ 17 October 2005: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]


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Erik Redburn
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posted 01 November 2005 05:15 AM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good threads on subject I know too little about, but thought this was an interesting turn of events. Maybe they'll be forced to look at the Left Party possibility again(?) Even if no go, it's good to see a younger feistier generation coming up.


German Socialist to Quit; Coalition in Doubt
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/01/international/europe/01germany.html?th&emc=th

By MARK LANDLER
Published: November 1, 2005

FRANKFURT, Oct. 31 - Negotiations to form a new German government were thrown into jeopardy Monday when the leader of one of the two main parties said he would step down after losing an internal power struggle.

Arnd Wiegmann/Reuters

Franz Müntefering, leader of the Social Democrats, said on Monday that he would step down, throwing coalition talks into disarray.

The chairman of the Social Democratic Party, Franz Müntefering, said he would not run for re-election next month after the party's executive committee rejected his candidate for its No. 2 position.

Mr. Müntefering, 65, is representing the Social Democrats in delicate negotiations to form a coalition government with the Christian Democratic Union, led by Angela Merkel. The parties had hoped to wrap up the talks in time to elect Mrs. Merkel on Nov. 22 as the first woman to serve as German chancellor.

The turmoil in the Social Democratic Party, however, suggests that date could slip. Some political analysts here said it could unravel the coalition entirely, because Mr. Müntefering is viewed as one of the only figures in the party who can impose order on its bickering factions.

"This is a political earthquake, not only for the Social Democrats but for the coalition negotiations, too," said Uwe Andersen, a professor of political science at Ruhr University in Bochum.

Although Mr. Müntefering said he would continue to take part in the coalition talks, analysts said his weakened status would make an agreement more difficult to reach. A shrewd party operative well-respected by the opposition, Mr. Müntefering has played a central role in managing the transition from the center-left government of Gerhard Schröder to a so-called grand coalition of the two major parties. He helped broker the deal under which Mr. Schröder agreed to relinquish the chancellorship in return for his party's holding several powerful ministries.

Mr. Müntefering had been expected to become vice chancellor and labor minister in the new government, which would make him Germany's second-most powerful politician, after Mrs. Merkel.

His announcement, in a terse news conference, was the latest in a series of shocks for the Social Democrats, once one of Germany's most powerful political machines. Since it returned to power in 1998 under the leadership of Mr. Schröder, the party has struggled to reconcile its heritage as a workers' party with the urgent need to streamline Germany's economy.

Mr. Müntefering's decision to step down left politicians here baffled, because unlike Mr. Schröder, he is not known for gamesmanship.

The jolt reached other parties too. Edmund Stoiber, a leading conservative politician who has developed a good rapport with Mr. Müntefering, said the announcement had given him second thoughts about his own role in a grand coalition government.

Mr. Stoiber, the prime minister of Bavaria, is the designated economics minister under Mrs. Merkel, and he has been a constant presence at her side in the talks with Mr. Müntefering and Mr. Schröder. His defection would sting Mrs. Merkel, since he heads the sister party of the Christian Democrats.

"Angela Merkel's position is not shattered, but it is undermined," said Jürgen Falter, a professor of political science at Mainz University. "We are a step closer to new elections."

There is little appetite for a new election. Another alternative - cobbling together coalitions with Germany's smaller parties - is no more likely to succeed now than it was after the election.

Germany's two top leaders tried to sound confident, though both appeared shaken by the sudden developments. Mrs. Merkel insisted there was a strong will on both sides to form a grand coalition.

Mr. Schröder expressed anguish at the defeat of Mr. Müntefering, one of his closest allies, but predicted the coalition talks would be brought to a successful resolution. "There mustn't be any impact on the creation of a stable government," he said to reporters in Berlin.

Mr. Schröder may not have much influence over the outcome, analysts said. His power within the Social Democratic Party has waned since he announced he would not serve in the next government.

Like Mr. Müntefering, Mr. Schröder, 61, represents an older generation of Social Democrats that is increasingly at odds with younger party members. Some of these up-and-comers are staunchly leftist and opposed Mr. Schröder's efforts to overhaul the German economy.

The tension finally erupted at the recent party meeting, when Mr. Müntefering backed a longtime aide, Kajo Wasserhövel, to be general secretary. Political analysts said some of the younger members were antagonized by what they viewed as Mr. Müntefering's high-handed style.

......................

Mr. Müntefering, a Catholic from a working-class family, has used populist language to appeal to his party's faithful. He famously labeled foreign investors "locusts" intent on devouring German assets. But he also helped Mr. Schröder push through his economic reforms.

"Müntefering was the person who held things together," Professor Andersen said. "It will be much more difficult for the negotiations if he is in a weak position, and if the left wing becomes stronger."


[I deleted a couple nonessential paragraphs to put this within copyrites, but no more as I don't like the NYT's tightened subscription policies. Another unhealthy trend]

[ 01 November 2005: Message edited by: Erik the Red ]


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 01 November 2005 07:51 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fascinating report, that.

So, if Germany if forced into new elections, anyone want to go out on a limb and guess how they might go?


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Rufus Polson
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posted 02 November 2005 02:00 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, if the more leftish faction of the SDP gain control, couldn't they still just say to hell with the right and form a ruling coalition with the Greens and the Left party?
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 17 November 2005 04:16 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
With barely a whimper, the SPD approves the coalition agreement:
quote:
During the two and a half hours of discussion, the delegates expressed little criticism, demonstrating a nearly united front of approval for the coalition. In the open ballot, 518 delegates backed the deal, 15 voted no and five abstained. The Social Democrats also overwhelmingly put their weight behind outgoing party chairman Franz Müntefering becoming Merkel's deputy and approved the remaining eight SPD cabinet designates.

In a largely symbolic move aimed at promoting "social justice", the Social Democrats also managed to box through an income tax surplus, a so-called "rich tax" for high earners (more than 250,000 euros a year) in the face of strong conservative opposition.

Brandenburg Premier Matthias Platzeck was elected party chairman Tuesday, by 512 of the 515 delegates' votes at the SPD party conference in Karlsruhe. Two party members voted no and one abstained. "Party chairman is an honorary post, and I’m not going to neglect my main job as state premier of Brandenburg,” he said.

It is also hard to imagine the SPD's powerful left wing will remain docile when the pain levels for SPD voters start to rise:

quote:
"Its success is going to hinge on whether we are the motor or the trailer," SPD left leader Michael Mueller told Reuters. "If we're the motor, I think it can work out well even though we had our reservations about it at first."

Mueller predicted the SPD, which will send eight ministers into the 16-seat cabinet after narrowly losing the September 18 election by less than one percentage point, has already gained the upper hand on the CDU by rejuvenating its leadership.

"I think we can emerge as the strongest party in the coalition because we have already gone through a renewal of our leadership and our programmes," Mueller said.



From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 22 November 2005 09:50 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Merkel takes over and faces instant rebellion:
quote:
Some 51 MPs from the two coalition parties failed to vote for Ms Merkel, with most of the rebels almost certainly coming from within the SPD. A few of Ms Merkel's fellow conservatives may also have put the knife in.

"The fact that dozens of SPD MPs failed to vote for her is a sign of how fragile this government is. It's a wobbly coalition," said Guido Westerwelle, the leader of the opposition Free Liberals. "There's now a possibility that the government will collapse before the end of its [four-year] legislature period."

"It's important to have the first woman leader in Germany. But ultimately it's not the woman that counts but the politics," said Claudia Roth, the Green party leader, complaining that the new government had said little about climate change.



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