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Author Topic: Canadian Action Party Comics- Should Canada adopt the US dollar?
C. Haught
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posted 31 January 2004 01:07 PM      Profile for C. Haught     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem with this comic book, despite being a great lesson on economics, is that only states a new system of printing money. It doesn't say how the Candian dollar would be specifically useful.

http://www.canadianactionparty.ca/MainPages/Comic.asp?Language=English

[ 31 January 2004: Message edited by: C. Haught ]


From: Grand Forks AFB, ND | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Kevin
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posted 31 January 2004 01:43 PM      Profile for Kevin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An interesting read, and because I'm only 17 and no one has ever explained economics to me, somewhat informational.

However, they didn't explain anything about adopting the US dollar.


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Stephen Gordon
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posted 31 January 2004 04:10 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, good grief. Please don't anyone pay attention to this; it looks like an updated version of Social Credit.

The policy proposal is to increase the reserve ratio to 50% or so. If the total money supply is supposed to stay the same in order to avoid inflation, the only way that banks could meet this ratio is to call in half of the loans they hold.

There are much less disruptive ways of getting an extra $15b in revenue.


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Kevin
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posted 31 January 2004 04:59 PM      Profile for Kevin   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay, still learning

I never take anything at face value, in fact, I've been reading up on other economic ideas, many of which DrConway has linked to in the forum.


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DrConway
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posted 31 January 2004 05:22 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bumping the reserve to 50% and printing the extra money and stuffing it into the banking system would obviate the necessity of calling the loans.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 31 January 2004 08:29 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, not quite.

To make thing simple, let's limit ourselves to the narrow definition of the money supply: M1 = currency plus demand deposits (i.e., chequing). For the purposes of the policy experiment, this number is supposed to be fixed throughout. People choose a mix of cash holdings and deposits depending on the frequency of their transactions and things like the rate of inflation and the interest rate. If M1 is supposed to be fixed to avoid inflation, none of these can change.

Let's look at a chartered bank's balance sheet. Assets = reserves held at the central bank + loans, and liabilities = deposits. Assets have to equal liabilities (another accounting identity). If M1 is to stay unchanged, the deposits have to stay constant. So if the bank has to increase reserves, the only way that can happen is by reducing loans.


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DrConway
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posted 31 January 2004 09:18 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure I'm convinced of the usefulness of your thought experiment.

A more practical way to flood the country with money is to spend it into existence by employing people on whatever projects need social utility. As a result, those newly employed people will need to deposit their money into banks. This swells the dollar value of deposits, and indirectly swells the dollar base of reserves, assuming loans don't change.

Ergo, calling loans is not necessary if it's not made a legal requirement instantly.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ReeferMadness
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posted 01 February 2004 05:48 AM      Profile for ReeferMadness     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let me see if I have this straight. The federal government could get an extra $15 billion per year by printing it itself instead of letting the banks create it? So when interest rates rise and the banks charge, say, 10% on a loan, this is on money they invented themselves??? What a scam!!

Little wonder the pseudo-science of economics is in such disrepute.

quote:
There are much less disruptive ways of getting an extra $15b in revenue.

Like what?

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Stephen Gordon
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posted 01 February 2004 09:05 AM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Doc: The thought experiment was based on pp 9-10. The point that prices depend on the total money supply and not its composition is correct. Since the policy proposal is to change the composition and not the total stock of the money supply, that's all I changed.

[LECTURE

The power to print money provides purchasing power for the government: it creates pieces of paper that can be exchanged for goods.

The revenue power is known as seigneurage. In the most recent annual report on the BoC's website, they made a profit (which was transferred to the federal govt) of just under $2b without even trying. I don't know where the $15b number came from, but it certainly seems plausible that they could make that kind of money without too much effort.

But this increased purchasing is not coming out of thin air. Since we have more money chasing the same number of goods, the purchasing power of the existing money supply goes down. This reduction in purchasing power works in exactly the same way as a tax, since it amounts to the transfer of purchasing power from the people to the government.

It's been established that the inflation tax is strongly regressive. The rich are able to protect themselves fairly easily against inflation, but anyone whose salaries are fixed by multi-year contracts, or who are living on incomes that are not continually indexed to inflation will see the purchasing power of their salaries decline.

\LECTURE]


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DrConway
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posted 01 February 2004 02:38 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Oliver Cromwell:
Doc: The thought experiment was based on pp 9-10. The point that prices depend on the total money supply and not its composition is correct. Since the policy proposal is to change the composition and not the total stock of the money supply, that's all I changed.

Sure, but you used M1. M2, though, includes savings accounts and some more monetary instruments. M3 (or M2+ in Canada) is the broadest measure and I suspect if you used this in your thought experiment, you would find the results to be less clear-cut.

Incidentally, on reading Paul Hellyer's books, I don't recall that he ever suggests instantly going from 0% reserve requirement to 50%.

Inflation's effects are not necessarily as clear-cut as you put them. The majority of government benefits are indexed except for welfare and EI, while the minimum wage sets the floor income for workers.

Furthermore, high employment is somewhat more important to the majority of the population than stable prices, especially if stable prices happen to be achieved in the context of high persistent unemployment (for example, Europe; the only reason they haven't faced revolution by now is because governments there substitute a good safety net for full-employment policies).

Unanticipated inflation, in particular, does a funny thing: It drives down the value of assets and changes the distribution of wealth. In the mid-1970s, for example, the richest 1% in the USA held only 26% of the total wealth of that nation. This trend reversed itself by the 1980s, of course, as low inflation and speculative excess drove that percentage back up.

Further, the "inflation tax" is not as regressive as you make it out to be, because of the differential impact on workers and businesses; manufacturing tends to benefit well from inflationary increases in prices of their final products because of the ability to take advantage of productivity growth as well, while minimum wage workers are less protected than workers under a union agreement.

My macro text pointed out that the effects are somewhat randomly distributed and so the overall impact can be rather uneven.

[ 01 February 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DonnyBGood
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posted 01 February 2004 08:42 PM      Profile for DonnyBGood     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Let's look at a chartered bank's balance sheet. Assets = reserves held at the central bank + loans, and liabilities = deposits. Assets have to equal liabilities (another accounting identity).

I think you are simply accounting for this incorrectly. Loans are assets and deposits are liabilities. "Reserves" are simply owner's equity.

The equations is Assets = Liabilities + Owner's Equity. If you look at the math then what the bank does is run a deficit on the owner's equity side. But it is a deceptive deficit because it masks the return on investment. Using the age old "hank" principle all the bank has to do to account for its deposits is show that it has sufficient assets to match them. As banking regulations have relaxed (as this comic so interestingly illustrates) owner's equity accomodates for the imbalance. These assets can also take the form of ownership loans so that the amount of cash can actualy greatly excede what is required to be held on deposit even with the deposit/reserves ratio is 1!

You can imagine in days gone by when some unscrupulous banker convinced some regulator that he was just allowed 6 months at a .99:1 ratio he would quickly make up the difference through interest earned on the "missing" cash.


quote:
If M1 is to stay unchanged, the deposits have to stay constant. So if the bank has to increase reserves, the only way that can happen is by reducing loans.

...or decreasing owner's equity like this:

100,000,000 (loans)= 50,000,000 (costs+deposits) + 50,000,000 (owner's equity)

Now to increase loans by 100,000,000.00 you have to increase owner's equity by 100,000,000. How do you do that? You simply prorate the equity to accomodate or you "borrow" the money. So the accounting equation really becomes something like this:

Assets = Deposits + (Owner's Equity)*f, where f is some function or ratio that balances the equation - the "fudge factor". All the better if it is approved by regulators...


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Rufus Polson
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posted 02 February 2004 06:19 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Oliver Cromwell:
It's been established that the inflation tax is strongly regressive. The rich are able to protect themselves fairly easily against inflation, but anyone whose salaries are fixed by multi-year contracts, or who are living on incomes that are not continually indexed to inflation will see the purchasing power of their salaries decline.

I don't think it's been established at all. There's truth to some of what you say. But let's not forget that the poor tend to be debtors, these days quite heavy debtors. Inflation reduces the value of debts. Rich people tend to be creditors and/or heavy depositors. Inflation erodes the value of those holdings. Inflation is particularly bad for banks, not among the poorest institutions in the world.
And I've noticed that in practise, it seems to be more workable for the salaries of the poorer classes to be held to zero or near-zero raises when inflation is low, producing an erosion of paychecks that's too slow to really notice. My union in specific has been victimized by this phenomenon for the past fifteen years plus, and it's something that I've seen all over. The erosion of the buying power of minimum wage is a result of this effect--in any given year, inflation hasn't changed anything by very much, so any pressure to increase the minimum wage is weak. And governments are constantly lobbied by corporations *not* to increase the minimum wage, so they are unlikely ever to do so unless pressure is very strong. When inflation is higher, it's pretty much impossible to refuse to give any raise at all--the amount being lost isn't below that threshold of perception.

Meanwhile, it's been pretty clear over the last couple decades that huge raises for the rich don't require inflation.

There's some discussion in Shooting the Hippo, by Linda McQuaig, of the relative effects of inflation on the rich and not-so-rich. She strongly disagrees with your position. I think many other centre-left economic thinkers would agree with her. So I really don't think, whatever the merits of your position, that you can consider it "established".


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 02 February 2004 07:08 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
But this increased purchasing is not coming out of thin air. Since we have more money chasing the same number of goods, the purchasing power of the existing money supply goes down.

I may be missing nuances, but it seems to me that the increased money supply does not have to be chasing the same number of goods, depending on how the govt spends the new cash. If it is used to create new services that the public can purchase, then you have expanded your economy along with your money supply, and it need not have a detrimental effect.

This is part of the problem with global capitalism, as some have seen it: final demand. Meaning, no matter how productive society gets, there are only so many gee-gaws and doohickeys that anyone cares to buy. The market is saturated with consumer goods, most of which have little appeal, even if you can afford them. But if we look on the side of public services and infrastructure, then we see that there is still a huge area for growth. Therefore, to get around the problem of final demand we just need to stop relying so heavily on private goods to feed the economy.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 02 February 2004 09:59 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Many posts in the interval, and several different points have been raised.

I'm going to have to look up some studies about the redistributive effects of inflation. My original claim was based on comments by people whose opinions I respect, but I'm going to double-check. Several good points have been made, but I'd like to add a couple more to the stew:

- Most indexing is done once a year, so aside from the actual month when the indexing is done, the real value of an indexed income declines over the year. The higher the inflation rate, the steeper the decline.

- Inflation does erode real debt burdens, but the rich gain even more than the poor do there. For one thing, the poor don't have much debt to erode, since no-one will lend them very much (another reason why I don't see why increasing reserve ratios is a good idea). On the other hand, people who have multi-hundred-million-dollar mortgages to finance their property holdings end up becoming very wealthy indeed, since the inflation-fueled value of their assets goes up, while the debt stays the same. (My own personal hate figure is Donald Trump. He got wealthy by having the amazingly good luck of inheriting real estate just before the inflationary period of the 70's and 80's.)

A couple of other posts made reference to the tradeoff between inflation and unemployment, otherwise known as the Phillips curve. That tradeoff does exist, although it's only a short-run effect that lasts for about 18 months or so.

I'm generally bemused by the fact that left-leaning commentators will advocate a looser monetary policy in order to increase employment. The reason why increasing inflation increases employment is that increased inflation reduces real wages. Firms react to those lower wages by hiring more workers. The reason why the effect is only a temporary one is that when workers get a chance to renegociate their contracts, they will insist on recovering their lost buying power. And when real wages go back up to their original level, employment goes back down. Since the inflation-unemployment tradeoff is based on tricking workers into accepting decreases in their real wages that they wouldn't have freely agreed to, I have a hard time understanding why anyone who cares for the welfare of workers would advocate using such a policy instrument.

I hasten to add that this is the traditional Keynesian story of the Phillips curve. The only difference between this story and the neo-classical model developed in the 1970's is the speed of adjustment; the neo-classical model predicts an even faster adjustment of wages, so the boost to employment has has an even shorter life-span. But both models agree on the basic mechanics of how inflation increases employment.


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DrConway
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posted 02 February 2004 10:07 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Oliver Cromwell:
- Inflation does erode real debt burdens, but the rich gain even more than the poor do there. For one thing, the poor don't have much debt to erode, since no-one will lend them very much (another reason why I don't see why increasing reserve ratios is a good idea).

Well, the middle class stands to gain a fair bit even so, if one considers that the single biggest debt incurred by working-age people tends to be their house.

quote:
Since the inflation-unemployment tradeoff is based on tricking workers into accepting decreases in their real wages that they wouldn't have freely agreed to, I have a hard time understanding why anyone who cares for the welfare of workers would advocate using such a policy instrument.

Although you attribute this to Keynes, it reads a bit suspiciously like Robert Lucas's "rational expectations" model.

Further, I might ask why, in the low-inflation era of the 1990s, it took forever for unemployment to come down, if you believe in the idea that a "credible" monetary policy and all the other bafflegab I get off the BoC's website will somehow magically spur production and employment, even though such aspects are investment-sensitive, which in turn happens to be interest-rate-sensitive, and with real rates higher than they have been since the 1960s and 1970s, it is not surprising that the BoC is basically blowing so much hot air.

[ 02 February 2004: Message edited by: DrConway ]


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DonnyBGood
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posted 05 February 2004 07:50 PM      Profile for DonnyBGood     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the discussion is really defusing the simple novelty of the idea in the comic. The point is if lending large amounts of money doesn't create inflation why would printing it?

But more subtle in the suggestion is the idea that it is within the public's power to do that or anything else for that matter that would improve our general welfare, without violence or appropriation. But the economic othodoxy says that it all must be done throught the market mechanism guided by the profit motive.

This is held up as not only the best way to do things but the only "intelligent" way to do things.

[ 05 February 2004: Message edited by: DonnyBGood ]


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Stephen Gordon
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posted 05 February 2004 10:23 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DonnyBGood:
The point is if lending large amounts of money doesn't create inflation why would printing it?


Bank lending is constrained by how much people are willing to save; someone, somewhere has to provide the money before the bank can distribute it as a loan. And banks have to make sure that they're able to able to provide enough liquidity in case someone decides to withdraw their savings. Even though there's no reserve requirement, banks find it prudent to keep some reserves on hand, just in case.

The only real discretionary power lies with the authority to print money, so ultimately, the supply of money in Canada is determined by the Bank of Canada. Their control is not absolutely precise, but if they want to engineer an increase or a decrease in the money supply, they can do it.

This proposal does not make everyone better off; it's the equivalent of a tax on
loans. Existing spending power is shuffled around; nothing new is created.

[ 05 February 2004: Message edited by: Oliver Cromwell ]


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