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LOS ANGELES (WOMENSENEWS)--She was 20 years old and had never contemplated plastic surgery. But one day at the gym, the pretty, smooth-faced receptionist in a Los Angeles doctor's office looked at her vagina and noticed that her inner vaginal labia stuck out past her outer labia. She was horrified.

"I looked in like, those magazines, and saw that inner labia shouldn't stick out like mine did," said Crystal, who requested her last name be withheld. "So I had a labiaplasty and now I love the way I look; nice and neat and new. My vagina looks perfect."

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Apparently no part of our body is safe from standards of "perfection".

Fuck, Barbie didn't even have a vagina!

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: Debra ]

I can see it now.

Physio not covered by ohip
Chiro not covered by ohip
Optomitry not covered by ohip

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Originally posted by josh:
OT, but I wonder what exercise or routine the gym provided that would cause her to examine her labia.

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I was thinking the same thing! What the heck kind of gym IS that, anyhow?

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Got a loose labia....covered by ohip

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Anyway if you're NOT AT WORK, you can look at some before and after pictures, to see what the hell they're even talking about.

About the labiaplasty: How can it restore my self-image and self-esteem, as claimed, if I had no idea how "youthful and aesthetically pleasing" those structures were in the first place?

About the vaginoplasty: I haven't had children, so I wouldn't want to prejudge that decision -- maybe tightening stretched structures is a benefit.

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It makes me want to cry.

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Cry? You mean you haven't had your tear ducts removed yet?

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About the vaginoplasty: I haven't had children, so I wouldn't want to prejudge that decision -- maybe tightening stretched structures is a benefit.

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nope it isn't. And in fact in alot of ways isn't that much different than what some cultures do to women to make sure they don't enjoy sex.

It can leave painful scarring and restricts the vaginas natural stretching ability.

I've had six kids and well thanks to Kegel no problems with "roomy accomodation".

And as to have I ever considered any of these procedures? not on your life!!!

In fact I share Audra's reaction. they take perfectly normal beautiful women and make them plastic.

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: Debra ]

I have to wonder if some of these women will have excessive tearing to repair if they have a baby after one of these surgeries.

Finally got a look at the article... This just made me want to weep:

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Ileana Vasquez is a 29 year-old Southern California housewife with four children. She read about vaginal rejuvenation after she saw an ad in a magazine. Her marriage was in trouble and she noted that her husband wasn't happy with her sexually.

"One time he had a few beers and told me that because I had all our kids and was looser now he didn't want me as a woman anymore," Vasquez said. "He did say he was sorry later on but I knew he was telling the truth."

Vasquez had the surgery and she noted her marriage is back on track and her sex life is good again. "He's become my sweetheart again," she said. "He bought me a house and he wants me all the time."

Then she paused. "But there are times I still can't forgive him for how he made me feel," she said. "Sometimes I get so mad, so hurt. I mean I had the kids, he should have understood."

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Ya everything is great now.

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LABIAPLASTY will not only recreate more youthful and aesthetically pleasing external genital structures, but will also restore self-image and self-esteem!

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As an alternative, he could stimulate his prostate by continuing to jam his head up his ass. That, apparently, can make your member more memorable.

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]

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Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
Of course, give the fact that HE wasn't happy, he properly should have had a dick transplant and gotten a larger model.

As an alternative, he could stimulate his prostate by continuing to jam his head up his ass. That, apparently, can make your member more memorable.

[ 16 November 2004: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]

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Me, I don't like metal of any kind near my whistle. No cutting it, no implanting it, no piercing it, no tattooing it. I think mangling one's genitals for any purpose is a cri du coeur.*

* exceptions: trauma, sex reassignment surgery, vasectomy (with thanks to Zoot).

[ 17 November 2004: Message edited by: Mr. Magoo ]

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Me, I don't like metal of any kind near my whistle. No cutting it, no implanting it, no piercing it, no tattooing it. I think mangling one's genitals for any purpose is a cri du coeur.*

* exceptions: trauma, sex reassignment surgery.

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"I looked in like, those magazines, and saw that inner labia shouldn't stick out like mine did," said Crystal,

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The reason why inner labia do not stick out in those magazines is because they are tucked back and held in place for the pictures. A proceedure to make a vagina look like a "flower" for vaginal spread shots developed by Larry Flint and Hustler.

It drives me nuts to hear tales such as this. It never even entered my mind that my labia might be too long or too short or too ... anything! Gah.

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Originally posted by Hailey:
Why is a heterosexual woman viewing the vaginas of other women in magazines? That's more baffling to me than her awareness that her body is different from the cultural ideals portrayed.

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Will we be seeing procedures to smooth out excessively wrinkled intestines? To fix improperly shaped gall bladders? To remove unsightly discolorations on the surface of the liver?

http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3067907/graphic1.swf

[ 17 November 2004: Message edited by: yankcanuck ]

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"So I had a labiaplasty and now I love the way I look; nice and neat and new. My vagina looks perfect."

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Q’uQ!! I certainly agree she has the right to change herself around as she sees fit. But yIDoghQo'!!! Given how sensitive those areas are on a women, don't that kinda, like, hurt big time!? Must have been expensive too.

Seems to me there's a fine line between genital 'enhancement" and genital mutilation.

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I seem to recall reading, many years ago, about a groundbreaking procedure by which an artificial hymen could be "re-created" for women. Presumably, it was "buy one, and we'll throw in the white wedding dress for free!"

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Mr Magoo, that site also offers reconstructions of the hymen.

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Originally posted by Zoot:
Goddam right he should! Self-absorbed fuck!

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Yeah, the only thing that'll fix that marriage is a big fat DIVORCE. There's no way he will ever be able to take something like that back, she'll always know that he doesn't really love her, and he's obviously a great big asshole anyhow.

[ 17 November 2004: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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Originally posted by Michelle:

Yeah, the only thing that'll fix that marriage is a big fat DIVORCE. There's no way he will ever be able to take something like that back, she'll always know that he doesn't really love her, and he's obviously a great big asshole anyhow.

If you're going to have surgery, honey, have a rectumectomy - get rid of the 190 lb asshole you're dragging around.

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Originally posted by skdadl:

Mr Magoo, that site also offers reconstructions of the hymen.
We do it mainly for our annual midsummer's night festival of the renewing of our virginity.

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Another cosmetic surgery--vaginal rejuvenation--is also rising. It entails tightening the vaginal and perineum area, often stretched during childbirth. Some doctors also claim it increases sexual pleasure for both partners.

"I've had women who come in and say to me, 'He's small can you tighten me up'" said Matlock, who said he performed between 40 to 60 vaginal cosmetic surgeries a month in his Beverly Hills practice, charging around $5,000 for a labiaplasty. He said he grosses $250,000 a month performing these surgeries and noted he has had women come in from all over the world for vaginal cosmetic surgery.

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Originally posted by Carla:

I read this and it made me furious!

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he's obviously a great big asshole anyhow.

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Originally posted by Zoot:
I hope you reported him to the College of Physicians and Surgeons... Not that they'd actually DO anything about it.

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I don't know about that...

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Dr. Kernerman repeatedly behaved in an inappropriate and/or sexually suggestive manner to female staff and visitors at hospitals and a clinic where he worked. The Committee revoked Dr. Kernerman's certificate of registration.

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LAMBERT, David S., Scarborough. In September 1991, the Discipline Committee found Dr. Lambert guilty of professional misconduct, in that he engaged in disgraceful, dishonourable or unprofessional conduct for having made a series of derogatory and demeaning comments of a sexual nature to patients. The Committee ordered a recorded reprimand and a six-month suspension of Dr. Lambert's certificate of registration.

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Dr. Leatherdale made inappropriate comments to one patient to whom he had been providing counselling, and he treated her in an unprofessional manner causing her to terminate the doctor-patient relationship. With respect to a second patient, he used improper language in her presence, and made inappropriate comments during the course of an appointment. The Committee ordered a recorded reprimand, and a three-month suspension of Dr. Leatherdale’s certificate of registration, one month of which will be suspended provided he meets specified conditions. Dr. Leatherdale is also to pay the College’s costs fixed in the amount of $2,500.

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A ton more of them here.

[ 22 November 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]

The doctor told me he would sew me up nice and tight and make me like a virgin agian.

( I was a single mom )

Turns out he botched it royally and I had to have two surgeries afterward to fix the problem.

I'm not saying that this isn't ridiculous and sad...but its not surprising. The male equivalent (penis enlargements) is widely advertised all the time.

Men are disuaded and rightly so from the surgical technique and pills and creams don't generally result in disfigurement or loss of feeling.

Also men are not told their penis doesn't look right or that it should be different.

Funny how all "enhancement" surgeries result in a loss of feeling and often pain for the woman and yet there is great encouragement to have it done.

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Also men are not told their penis doesn't look right or that it should be different.

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Actually, that's not true at all.

I've been actively engaged in peer sex education on campus (this is my second year volonteering), and the judging by the questions from dozens of young men I've spoken to (not to even getting into personal experience and circles of friends) -they certainly feel as if it should look a certain way, be certain size, be circumsized...etc.

Now the difference here is that because I'd run into this (health services is a very female dominanted and almostly entierly oriented towards questions regarding women) - we have added a section on "penis particulars" to address these types of questions.

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Originally posted by Debra:
Also men are not told their penis doesn't look right or that it should be different.

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It can become a fine line. We all want to look at least "normal", and I think there's a role for cosmetic surgery to play here. There's always going to be a grey area about what surgery is "cosmetic" as apposed to theraputic, but clearly we are way beyond that line.

One aspect of this that is never touched on are the medical ethics. For example, in the case of breast implants, since when is it in keeping with medical ethics to slice open a perfectly healthy breast and shove in a plastic bag full of chemicals? Why are doctors who do this still licenced. The same can be said for penis extentions, and this labia surgery.

It's classic unneccessary surgery, and it is geared to take advantage of people's insecurities. These surgeons are little different than door to door home repair guys who scare the elderly into doing uneccessary-- and expensive repairs.

Doubly, in Canada, there is another ethical breach in this kind of surgery. Let's not forget that a doctor's education is heavily subsidized by the public.

And to the other guys sure maybe there is some insecurity but where does it come from?

Usually other guys!

Women aren't half as concerned about penis size as men are.

Most women orgasm from clitoral stimulation and penis size doesn\t make much difference there.

And trying to be big red and last a long long time also has little to do with what women want.

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Originally posted by Debra:

And to the other guys sure maybe there is some insecurity but where does it come from?

Usually other guys!

Women aren't half as concerned about penis size as men are.

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Again, wrong and you're missing the point.

1) guys put pressure on themselves; due to porn, the media "size matters" jokes, what lovers have said to them, embarassing moments in adolescence....etc.

2) While women aren't half as concerned about a guys penis size, that doesnt stop a GUY from feeling insecure about himself, and resorting to drastic measures to rectify the situation.

Ultimately the point is that there are cultural misconceptions, and lots of insecure people out there who will seek to "perfect" anything, and people who are more then happy to "help them out" and make a buck while theyre at it.

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Originally posted by josh:
How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis?

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No shit eh?

edited to add:
I totally missed your joke on the first read, or is that just my own dirty mind kicking in?

and Guepe what vagina particulars are you looking for?

Google is a wonderful thing.

[ 22 November 2004: Message edited by: Debra ]

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Originally posted by josh:
How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis?

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Originally posted by josh:
How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis?

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Waaay too obvious.

Whether or not size matters is a matter of opinion, and can differ from one woman, or for that matter one man, to another. Do gay men argue about this, or do they all agree?

(side long glance)

But anyways, I've gone through this with all three of my daughters and I know the pressure about physical appearance is absolutely huge at one time or another.

It's a very difficult thing, getting them through this stuff.

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Do gay men argue about this, or do they all agree?

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
Penis enlargement is much more about the guys in the locker room than the woman in the bedroom. I don't believe it has much effect on erect size.

Of course. Millions of gay men, with different cultural standards, living all around the world and each having different experiences and a penis of his own, all agree. It was settled at the first international homo convention in 1937, and hasn't come up for discussion since. Gay boys have to sign a pledge of agreement before they're allowed to lose their Virginity.

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quote:

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Originally posted by josh:
How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis?

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and Guepe what vagina particulars are you looking for?

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I'm well versed in google and research tools.

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
Of course. Millions of gay men, with different cultural standards, living all around the world and each having different experiences and a penis of his own, all agree. It was settled at the first international homo convention in 1937, and hasn't come up for discussion since. Gay boys have to sign a pledge of agreement before they're allowed to lose their Virginity.

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Originally posted by andrean:
I mean really, who looks that closely, at their own or someone else's? During intercourse, you can't really see it (unless there's some position that I don't know about) and if you are close enough to be seeing it, hopefully you've got your eyes closed while concentrating on more important and more pleasurable matters. It's not like you're wearing a miner's helmet to better illuminate the situation! Who cares what it looks like, as long as it works?

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The guy may like the lights on and a clear view of what he's working his tongue into, since men tend to enjoy visual stimulation.

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Originally posted by Budd Campbell:

The guy may like the lights on and a clear view of what he's working his tongue into, since men tend to enjoy visual stimulation.

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That is not true, some men may enjoy visual stimulation, as you apparently do, or you would not have said it. Other men depending upon neural centre usage enjoy other sense pleasures more than "seeing".

Napolean for example enjoyed smelling, and entreated Josephine not to bath before he came home from military campaigns. Other men, prefer touch, may it be hard or soft. While still others enjoy sounds, or a combination of sense triggering pleasures. Indeed apparently some like nothing better than a good spank me scenario.

Apparently though some males, and in the case of women who think genital mutilation makes them prettier, have been brainwashed by Larry Flint's personal preference in vagina viewing.

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What bother me is that it really underscores, some men wanting women's vaginas to look like that of a little girl.

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Originally posted by shaolin:

I hope this isn't an attempt to justify this outrageous surgery.

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Hardly. I can't imagine why anyone would think the results of such an operation would make a woman more attractive, the opposite in fact.

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What bother me is that it really underscores, some men wanting women's vaginas to look like that of a little girl.

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Imagine how his wife felt.

[ 23 November 2004: Message edited by: skdadl ]

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I always thought that was why the pubic hair is often airbrushed out in porn magazines..

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It may be, but there could be a less creepy explanation. I suspect that when hardcore porn, with its penetration shots, became way more popular (i.e., widely accepted), the makers simply figured that shaved genitals would make it easier to see what was going on.

This would explain why male porn actors shave their pubic hair too. In gym change rooms, I'm amazed by how many guys have picked up on this fashion. I assume most of them aren't porn stars.

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Originally posted by remind:

... What bother me is that it really underscores, some men wanting women's vaginas to look like that of a little girl.

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Originally posted by James:

Being very careful here not to step where Budd did, but why then do so many women (icluding some quite feminist) find it erotic to shave, wax, or otherwise defoliate ? I find plush carpeting or hardwood floors equally appealing, (each having certain advantages) but certainly have never thought of the latter as having any "pre-pubescent" connotations. Heaven forbid.

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Are these women you know, James? I don't know a single woman who likes to shave. Some do, but it's because their partners want them to. They HATE it. My ex wanted me to shave, and I *almost* did it just to please him although I really didn't want to.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Victorian art critic John Ruskin was so horrified to discover on his wedding night that his wife had pubic hair that he had the marriage annulled?

Imagine how his wife felt.

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Hairy, I imagine.

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist a straight line like that.)

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Originally posted by Anchoress:

Are these women you know, James?

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And now, while my skin is still intact, I'm gettin' out of this thread

[ 23 November 2004: Message edited by: James ]

Most of the women I know or have met, including the lesbian and bi-sexual ones, are feminine oriented and practice the body maintenance that most women usually do (legs, underarms, bikini wax, etc.).

The ones I have spoken with about these things usually say it's part of what gives them a sense of identity, self-esteem, good health and person power and confidence. Doing this for their partner's benefit, if they have one, is not the main consideration, although many say that is important as well.

But it seems shaving their intimate parts, at least totally, is more the exception than the rule. It seems to be a mood thing, from what I have been told. My spouse trims herself there, but has never totally remove all the hair. She says doing it the way she does is more comfortable, sanitary and make things more "sensitive."

Regarding shaving vs. natural the main issue, to me, is what makes the wearer, so-to-speak, the most comfortable and confident in her skin, which in turn is damn sexy. So I can see the appeal of both. And of course choosing ones path for ones self is the real turn-on.

Long, long ago, I had a brief fling with, to my mind at the time, was the quintessential Queen St. artsy type. Well, in the course of fumbling around one night, I discovered she neglected to shave her underarms. Now it was March and it wasn’t like she had Buckwheat in a headlock. On her, because it seemed so much part of the package, it was quite exciting for an impressionable youngster.

Can’t say I seek that out now, but the not-giving-a-damn, I’m-comfortable-with-me part has stuck.

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They pulled it out after the Amway sheow

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i find the topic very disturbing, but tis the world we live in. it is i guess similar to the men who get their penises enlarged, testicles implanted etc. so it is not only the women who are getting the rough side of the deal. i think that ultimately if this procedure makes the individual feel better, more confident about themselves then, while still psychotic, we should not completely disregard the validity of it.

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Originally posted by remind:

The one time I saw a porn flick, after an Amway party that friends had suckered us into going to during a snow storm. They pulled it out after the Amway sheow, I too was struck by the close up shots. Not by the actors actions or the sex components, but by the pimples on the asses of the actors, I simply could not get beyond them and see anything else going on. yuk!

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Originally posted by shaolin:
Do most women actually bikini wax? Is this one of the practices MOST women partake in?

I find it very interesting that so many males seem to know women who was/shave/remove hair for them and their enjoyment while the females seem to have quite different experiences.

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I think this new generation of females ain't standin' for the hairy balls no more.
Hint for busy guys, dousing the fluff with lighter fluid and using a match provides for a quick, practically painless solution.

edited to add: As long as i'm making an ass of myself, i should mention that there are some pornstars who are famous for their long, stretchable labia (labias? labiai? laboolums?). I never gave the matter all that much thought, though i read about this type of surgery in Zmag's "Hotel Satire" a couple of years ago.

[ 24 November 2004: Message edited by: thwap ]

B.C., Alberta crack down on cosmetic surgery prizes

WebPosted Nov 24 2004 10:49 AM PST VANCOUVER -

Cosmetic surgeons in Alberta and British Columbia are no longer allowed to offer their services as contest prizes.

The colleges of physicians and surgeons in both provinces recently introduced new guidelines to prohibit discount coupons, gift certificates or giveaways for medical surgeons.

The decision came partly in response to makeover contests that offer various surgical procedures as a prize.

For the rest go to:

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Everyone who watches Seinfeld knows the three main parts are the Mulva, the Regina and the Dolores!

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You forgot the Mom's venomous.

[ 24 November 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]

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I have always been bothered by the tendency for people ,even educators to describe everything below a woman's waist as the vagina.

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Similarly, I tend to bristle a bit when someone refers to everything below their own waist as "down there" (often whispered...)

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Similarly, I tend to bristle a bit when someone refers to everything below their own waist as "down there" (often whispered...)

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Fortunately, I don't think many of todays cohort of women have time for such nonsense, what with reclaiming the c-word and all.

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Friendship ended that night for 2 reasons, the Amyway sneaky gig and the videos.

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Originally posted by Tommy Shanks:

You say the husband did this?

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Feministing posted this on the weekend:

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Finally. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists have released a public warning against vaginal rejuvenation surgery, saying that not only is there no proof of the surgery being effective, but that it can be severely damaging to, well, your vag:

According to ACOG, the procedures are unproven and the potential risks -- including infection, scarring, nerve damage and loss of sensation -- outweigh the potential benefits (Zimmerman, Wall Street Journal, 8/31). ACOG in a statement said it is 'deceptive' for physicians to 'give the impression' that such procedures are 'accepted and routine surgical practices.' ACOG's Committee on Gynecologic Practice in a statement published in the September issue of the group's magazine said the '[a]bsence of data supporting the safety and efficacy of these procedures makes their recommendation untenable.'
And remember that not only are they giving the impression that these procedures are routine, but that they're also empowering. And while there's been a "doubling" in the number of labiaplasties in the UK over the last five years (compared to a reported 30 percent rise by the American Society of Plastic Surgery), they're making attempts to warn women of the negative mental effects:

The British Medical Journal weighed in on the topic with a May article calling cosmetic genital surgeries an 'extreme and unproved intervention' that 'could undermine the development of other ways to help women and girls to deal with concerns about their appearance.'
Most women don't understand that the size and shape of genitalia vary greatly, leading to 'misguided assumptions' about what is normal, said the authors, a clinical psychologist and a gynecologist.

Amen. Hopefully more women will begin to get the hint, especially since they're doctors and all.

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