I'm wondering how other folks manage their personal finances. Do you keep a strict budget? Are you more of a free-flow earner/spender? Do you have investments or major debts? How do you manage them?

And I'm also wondering about folks' philosophies about money and spending/saving etc. Do you aspire to acquire great wealth? Do you have any particular feelings about investments or the money market etc.

Me, somehow I've always managed to have enough money to pay my rent and keep myself healthy and happy. I haven't been particularly thoughtful about it, though, or intentional, and often I've been outright frivolous or stupid, but managed to not throw myself into destitution. I'm coming up to a time in my life now when I realize I should get more serious about my money, and should probably start saving for The Future, and dealing with my student debt, etc.

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I never have done well with a formal budget.

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Neither have I. To tell the truth, I've never even been able to figure out how to draw up a workable budget, never mind sticking to it. Any babblers out there have more success with this?? How did you set it up? How flexible is it?

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I make use of a savings plan at work that comes right off my pay before I see it.

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I'm also one of those odd people who, despite being solvent, pays bills late and incurs the service charges (or worse). I read a great essay in Utne a long time ago by a woman who was of similar mind. She likened paying bills late to being her last remaining piece of free will — she paid them late just to show that she could choose to. I suppose there's a bit of that going on with me. I don't like bills, and I don't like having to go run and grab my chequebook and a stamp every time one comes in.

I get paid once a month, which kind of demands good money managing. I hear a lot of people at work say that they have trouble making it last, but it's never been a problem for me.

I know ballpark what all my necessary expenses are going to be every month (rent, phone bill, etc.), so I subtract that in my mind from what I have, and the rest gets split mentally into four or five chunks (depending on how many weeks in the month) and that money has to take care of groceries and any luxuries we might want.

I haven't been able to put away as much money as I'd like over the last year or so, but now that my partner is working part-time, he gives me a chunk every month and it goes right into our savings account, since I don't need it to make the books balance. I take care of most of our money, since I'm better at it.

And I always have a good buffer in my account to take care of unexpected expenses if they arise.

I also find the online banking to be a great resource that I am only starting to tap into.

I have made up a budget in Excel that starts with hard costs: Things like mortgage, taxes, car loan, utilities, the things I can reliably predict. I then estimate an average month's grocery and incidentals spend. I divide a reasonable yearly amount for clothing by 12 and use that figure monthly, as well as the approximate amount we'll spend on maintenance for the house and car. If I spend this amount, okay. If not, it goes into savings at the end of the month, and if I spend a little more than budgeted in another month, it's okay because the money's there.

Anyway, I figure out how much we should need per month, some of it goes to buffer. There are times when we have a dry spell in the cash flow, so I use a year-to-date calculation as well to figure out where we're at.

What I do is work it like this:

As soon as the student loans come in, what comes straight off the top are four months' worth of bills. So bam, $300 to Telus. Bam, $300 to Hydro, and so on.

The rest of it is tuition, rent, and whatever else , though sometimes I even pay rent a few months in advance as well.

The one debt we did have was our first mortgage. We paid it off in seven years. How? We bought in a price range that we could afford. Our latest house we paid cash. (with the trade-in from the previous)

The second biggest thing I did to save money was buy a house with a rental suite. My mortgage payment is $600, minus $400 rent, and my monthly mortgage payment is only $200. Mind you, I do have some other montly expenses I didn't have as a renter: $200/month for oil (est) $120/mth taxes, $40/mth more home insurance. But even than its still only $560. The rent on my last apartment was $625/mth (heat incl). I am about $65/month ahead owning my own home.

The third biggest thing I did to save money was do direct debits every payday from my account. $25 twice a month to an RRSP, and $50 twice a month to a regular savings account. Both are earning 2.3% at Presidents Choice Financial, so I'm beating inflation while maintaining liquidity with the non-RSP savings. ING is even better at 2.5%.

Here's my method:

The shared expenses of my bf and me add up to $1000/mo, so we each contribute $500. For as many of my personal expenses as possible, I have direct debit, and make sure I have enough in my account to cover it. For other things - beauty treatments, clothes, dental, taxes, etc - I have envelopes that I keep at home, and I've figured out how much (approximately) I spend on each thing yearly, and dividing by 12, how much needs to go into each envelope each month.

When BF and I have something (expensive) we want to buy, we figure out how much we can afford to save towards it each month, and contribute equally until it's saved.

We're both financially ambitious, do the RRSPs etc, and what we're saving for right now is to buy an income suite, preferrably in our own building, that we can rent out.

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Originally posted by lagatta:
Cougyr, you are wise but please don't be judgemental. Many people who are poor or lack steady incomes fall into debt for reasons that are no fault of their own, and have nothing to do with discretionary purchases.

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Originally posted by Cougyr:

You are certainly right; some people do fall into debt for reasons that are no fault of their own. But, far more do so because they insist on buying things that they can't afford.

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1. Our high expectations of lifestyle. Somehow, as a culture, we have the idea (I don't mean everyone, obviously) that no matter what our financial circumstances, we *deserve* certain trappings of prosperity: cell phones, cars, cable TV, etc. These beliefs, needs, expectations, whatever, guide our spending habits and keep some people from living within their means.

2. The unprecedented opportunities that exist for people to get into debt. We've handed over the responsibility for how we conduct our fiscal lives to our banks - thereby fooling ourselves that if a financial institution thinks we can support a certain debt load, then we *must* be able to!!

It works well because she's a better shopper than I am, has the patience to find good deals and buy for next summer during late fall when stores are unloading their summer clothes and such. Whereas I'm quite good at simply not spending money. So she gets more for less than I would in her place. But I'm effective at setting money aside. We make a good team.

My problem, really, is that I make more than enough money to live on, and figure that since my tastes and diversions are so inexpensive (I like to shop thrift stores and I prefer indie and foreign movies to Hollywood blockbusters, for example), I figure I can afford to indulge myself. In reality, though, I should be saving money and paying down my debt instead of going out to dinner (even if it's just pizza or felafels...). I'm going back to school in the fall, after being out in the real world for four years...It's gonna be a bit of a shock to be living on a smaller, more fixed income (and to have most of it be borrowed money...).

I'm not sure what to do at this point, really. I know I should buckle down and start saving now, but it feels almost hopeless, and I have this feeling that I should enjoy my freedom while I can...Not very smart, I know.

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I'm not sure what to do at this point, really. I know I should buckle down and start saving now, but it feels almost hopeless, and I have this feeling that I should enjoy my freedom while I can...Not very smart, I know.

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Another thing is Bank fees. Believe it or not, if I am warned by an ATM that I will be charged an additional $1.50 convienience charge, In most cases I will cancel the transaction and move to another machine (I know doesn't charge), even if it's a couple of blocks away. They think think they got... well, hey, not me!

RRSP's, not a chance. I think the cons outweigh the pros. I'm pretty pessamistic on them. Why divert taxes, when I could pay them now, and not have tax shock in the future at tomorrows tax rate.

When I need something, I look to see if I can find a resonable used one first in the local papers or the regional Buy, Sell & Trade magazine. $300 power tool for $80 bucks sounds reasonable to me. If I'm not in a hurry, I place my own wanted ad for free.

Stocks. Never again, I lost big time a few years ago. But I bet the CEO's were still laughing. Had I not lost at that time, In the end I would have. I'd rather go to the casino, with the intention of losing money and having fun doing it. Which I do about once every 2 years.

Learn how to change your own oil and do simple maintenance on your vehicle. Do your own home improvements. Second hand clothing... heck, if the shoe fits.

I could go on and on about the little things every day that make a difference. I'll end on this note.

A person making $35,000 a year can make it seem like they are making $70,000.

Edited to add: Most Canadians are over insured. (Some of you won't believe this, but it's true.) One should only insure what you can't afford to lose. Carry high deductables if you can. Low deductables mean higher premiums.

Insurance agents, bankers, financial advisers, etc. These guys are not your friends. Etch this in your brain. They are not your friends. You can shop around. When looking for a mortgage, compare your options and tell the bankers. Really, go into the Royal and tell them what BNS is offering; then go to MB and do it again. It won't be long before someone offers a better rate. Do the same with Investors and Clarica, etc.

Oh, and those guys that run those investment seminars; they're not your friends either.

[ 25 February 2004: Message edited by: Cougyr ]

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Originally posted by Cougyr:
It really helps to start saving when you are young. Bad times can come to anybody, at any time. It is really nice to have a cushion to fall back on.

Edited to add: Most Canadians are over insured. (Some of you won't believe this, but it's true.) One should only insure what you can't afford to lose. Carry high deductables if you can. Low deductables mean higher premiums.

Insurance agents, bankers, financial advisers, etc. These guys are not your friends. Etch this in your brain. They are not your friends. You can shop around. When looking for a mortgage, compare your options and tell the bankers. Really, go into the Royal and tell them what BNS is offering; then go to MB and do it again. It won't be long before someone offers a better rate. Do the same with Investors and Clarica, etc.

Oh, and those guys that run those investment seminars; they're not your friends either.

[ 25 February 2004: Message edited by: Cougyr ]

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I use Quickbooks for both business and personal accounting.

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Originally posted by dee:

How user-friendly is quickbooks for personal accounting?

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I'm not totally sure this is the right forum for this, but it used to be called "earning and spending", so maybe it's okay.

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[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: audra trower williams ]

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I don't think you'd need QuickBooks just for personal money management. That's what Quicken, from the same company (Intuit), is for. You'll save yourself a few bucks right there.

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I disgree. This thread isn't asking for help, it's a discussion about money management. If every thread that had babblers talking about their own personal experiences was moved to "babblers helping babblers", I think it'd be one seriously bloated forum.

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Well, I read this thread as a request for advice on money management - if not specifically for the first poster, then just as a general rule. See the following:

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To tell the truth, I've never even been able to figure out how to draw up a workable budget, never mind sticking to it. Any babblers out there have more success with this?? How did you set it up? How flexible is it?

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What's your personal stance on money? Do you have particular monetary goals?

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In the interest of keeping this thread out of the babblers helping babblers forum

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Just to be clear - I was only trying to be helpful. I certainly don't think "Babblers helping Babblers" should be some kind of "thread purgatory" or anything like that.

This is a really interesting topic, whether we discuss the personal or the philosophical.

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What's your personal stance on money? Do you have particular monetary goals?

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For me, I don't think having money is all that important. What I'm worried about, though, is not having money. Does that make sense?

That's why I find debt such a frightening concept.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

Here's a Financial Personality Quiz.

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Originally posted by audra trower williams:
I am awful with money. My solution to money problems is always "earn more" rather than "spend less". I am dumb.

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[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]

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Originally posted by audra trower williams:
It's just tricky to juggle contract work, you know?

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What this tells me is that I'm not contributing enough to the sales of major corporations and billion dollar profit banks, and I should be giving them more of my money.

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It's that old, 'if you're not moving forward you're moving backwards' mentality, hey? If you're not making money on your money, you're losing money...which always really confuses me.

So, do babblers have investments? What do you invest in? How do you feel about making money from just having money?

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Me, I think stock markets and money trading etc., is fairly unethical and problematic.

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Is savings interest any different? They're all the payoff for you gambling your money at the bank, rather than hiding it under the mattress. None of them is "work" in the physical or mental sense (although I'd argue that understanding investment does take a bit more effort than simply socking your cash into an RRSP or a savings account and watching your interest accrue).

It's an interesting question though. Many babblers have expressed their dislike of investment income or capital gains, but if you contribute to your own RRSP, then it's interest on your money that's going to provide for your retirement. If you're involved in a pension plan, same thing.

I often think, when I'm older and actually have money to do something with (rather than it automatically going to paying down debts and covering rent), I'll probably join a credit union or something like that. I also think that if I ever feel like I want to invest in something, it'll be an actual thing that grows over time, and that I can see and participate in in other ways. I can see the value of investing in a small mixed farm or some other grass-roots, environmentally and socially responsible business or venture of some kind.

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Many babblers have expressed their dislike of investment income or capital gains, but if you contribute to your own RRSP, then it's interest on your money that's going to provide for your retirement. If you're involved in a pension plan, same thing.

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These aren't necessarily inconsistent, though.

First, because I believe that labour is the ultimate source of all wealth, I take issue with the fact that most capitalists reap such large rewards from the idle act of ownership, while the people doing the productive toil take home so little. Further, the privilege of ownership itself has often been bestowed in a fundamentally inequal way, based largely on inheritance from past injustices, or the perpetration of current ones, rather than, say, individual merit and rewards for an individual's own hard work.

Finally, I also take issue with the fact that contribution of capital becomes the basis for control of the overall production process, rather than, say, contribution of labour.

This being said, when a worker socks away his own wages into an RRSP (or an IRA or 401K here in the US), or her employer agrees to defer paying her current wages by paying into a pension plan instead, they money involved is in fact that workers' own earnings from past or present labour. Now, I may have some problems with the means by which that sum accumulates further interest, but all-in-all, since the system already exists, I don't have a problem with the worker taking a little piece out of it where the capitalist is taking out returns in spades.

Here's the rub, though. As a result of various class compromises that emerged from the Post-Depression, Post-War era, while individual workers' sums might still be relatively small, the aggregation of them has become quite large. The total value of "traditional" defined-benefit pension plans in the United States, the kind which most unions have, is estimated at upwards of 5 TRILLION DOLLARS. So while unionized workers are a relatively small minority of the total US labor force, they indirectly own a huge portion of that country's economy. Further, across the world, workers pension funds are estimated to be worth around $13 trillion, compared to a total global GNP of about $28 trillion, and a global stock market valuation of about $23 trillion (1998 figures). These are simply massive sums of wealth.

That brings me back to my "control" point, though. While all this wealth is indirectly owned by workers, through their retirement savings, by and large they have no effective control over that money. Rather, because of the legal and social structure of the pension system, management of these large funds is almost always in the hands of the financial services industry, which has little or no obligation to even consult the ultimate worker-owners. So even when the financial capitalists don't have actual ownership, they still retain effective power and control. And the investment strategies they follow largely prop up and reproduce the inequities of the existing capitalist system, which continues to reward those financial capitalists and their brethren so well.

I believe that if workers could just attain real democratic control over THEIR OWN accumulated savings, they could redirect the the way those savings are invested in more ethical ways, and help transform the entire capitalist accumulation system at the same time.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

1. You invest money when you put it into savings, RRSPs, GICs, or pensions

2. You earn money on that money, for no other reason than the fact that you own that money and are willing to risk it

3. You typically even earn money on the money you earned on your money. This is not money that was the result of your labour, it's money that you earned with the ownership of money

4. "Capitalists" do more of this, but anyone with any amount of money can do it too. Most do, one way or another

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Originally posted by Lizard Breath:
Well, socking it away, in a more literal sense, seems to be the only alternative to reaping gains for nothing more than giving your money to a bank. I haven't gone that route, even though I'm none too fond of big banks at all.

I often think, when I'm older and actually have money to do something with (rather than it automatically going to paying down debts and covering rent), I'll probably join a credit union or something like that. I also think that if I ever feel like I want to invest in something, it'll be an actual thing that grows over time, and that I can see and participate in in other ways. I can see the value of investing in a small mixed farm or some other grass-roots, environmentally and socially responsible business or venture of some kind.

But profiting off of profits just seems so parasitic and greedy that I don't want any part of it.

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Robbie Dee, you really have me thinking.... about the allocation of the wealth and who really owns it. It started to make me think of inflation and what fundemantally triggers it. Is it greed or wants?

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]

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So all you've really given us are arbitrary differences of scale. Ethically, unless you keep your money under the mattress, you're doing the same as any stock speculator, except on a smaller scale.

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There are funds out there that specialize in "ethical" or "socially responsible" investment.

The problems are twofold.

One is that there is not a great, easy system for differentiating the good ones from the bad ones (I am thinking, for example, of the proliferation of Labor Sponsored Investment Funds put forward by "fake" unions with few real ethical investment criteria). Really, though, this just means you have to do your research.

The bigger problem is that individual savings by individual workers is such a small and inefficient part of the overall retirement and pension system. The real wealth and power rests in large, usually emploment-tied and employer or bank-controlled funds. That, and government funds. It is difficult to opt out of these and you face tax penalties if you do. Plus, it's not really a good idea to opt out of them because as an individual with a relatively small amount of money, you just can't manage it as well individually as you would be able if you lumped it together with a bunch of other people's and took advantage of the economies of scale.

My point is that, rather than opting out and either "keeping your money under the mattress," or finding a socially responsible investment fund you agree with and turning it over to them, we should be fighting through politics and collective bargaining to take control of the pension funds that already exist.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

I guess it would only count as investment if you somehow get returns on it. I think, though, that there's something about having an actual investment in something that is not purely financial, that makes the financial investment more legitimate. But this is not a very well-formed stance, I'll admit.

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I'm thinking about more direct investment, like giving someone some of your money so that they can get their farm up and running

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I believe this to be the roots of our current system of capital gain. If you invest in a buddy's farm, you're taking a chance. If his farm fails, he's not out the money: you are. You've risked your money, for his gain. If he's your best pal, go right ahead, but if everything fails, you'll probably never see your money again.

In order that prospective farmers have the opportunity to get a loan, we need to offer some incentive for people to take risks with their money. We can't expect them to gamble losing all of it if there's no gain for them, right? So we offer interest.

The borrower pays for the privelege of being able to use a pool of money to purchase the means of their production.

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But doesn't even an ethical fund suffer from the same moral problem? Namely: they use money to generate more money? Isn't that what most people consider illegitimate, rather than exactly what the money is invested in?

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Well, from a Marxian perspective, the basic problem with "using money to generate more money" is that the source of the "more money" is expropriation of surplus value created by another worker's productive labor.

For me, though, I don't believe that each worker is entitled to all and only the value of what she herself produces. I would think that might be feasible in a society of smallholding farmers, assuming that arable land was itself distributed relatively equal between them and you had some kind of insurance scheme for individual or group disasters. But in a modern industrial economy, the relationships between workers in a large-scale, social production process is much more complicated.

I believe in a system that would pool the value produced by the sum total of our labors, and distribute it among laborers on some kind of fair and equitable basis. This is the premise: "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

The problem I have with capitalism right now is that it doesn't do this. Rather, what it primarily does is facilitate a transfer of a large portion of the wealth we produce as a society, from the masses of laborers who do the producing, to a much smaller, parasitic class of rentier-capitalists. It also also externalizes much of the costs of production onto the environment and public health, which is disproportionately borne by those same masses of laborers, while the capitalists are largely able to insulate themselves.

I think if we had a social system of large, worker-owned and worker-controlled funds that aggregated and managed capital investment, and then fairly redistributed the returns of that investment to the worker-owners, that would be ethically acceptable to me.

You are right that an individual, simply investing in The Body Shop or in organic farming, doesn't accomplish my large scale goals. Rather, they are simply engaging in "kinder, gentler" capitalism. That being said, as long as we are stuck in a capitalist system, I'd much rather have the kind and gentle version than the mean and brutal one. As an individual, I will never be able to end capitalism simply by withdrawing my own financial stake from it and hiding it under my mattress. So instead I will try to direct the portion of my financial savings I have control over in ways that I think make the best out of the given situation. Meanwhile, I will keep waging the workplace and political fight to build and take control over the kinds of institutions I think could actually transform things.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

A lot of my mom's friends are from the West Indies and they have this neat system called 'Hands'. A group of 10 or more people get together and contribute a portion of their income to a designated member of the group, each week for 10 weeks. You can decide how much you want to contribute, be it $20.00 or $50.00 or whatever, but it has to be consistent throughout the ten weeks.

During this time, if a certain member really needs money, be it to fund a trip back home, or any other financial emergency they can ask for a loan(interest-free) of however much money they may need from the fund.

I liked this idea when I heard about it, because it gives people, especially working people, access to a sum of money, that they otherwise wouldn't have access to. At the end of the ten weeks, each member receives the money back that they contributed. I guess the thought is that you save more when someone else is holding it for you, than if you had it yourself. I know that my mom has saved a lot this way in the past.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Skye ]

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Skye ]

So I've been forced to be extremely frugal, and it's amazing how much I've come to resent everything to do with investment, banks, credit cards, etc.

I have a bank account. And the only reason I have a bank account is because I don't get paid in cash. I'm so resentful of banks and service charges and the money they make from giving too easy credit to people who are increasingly financially unstable, that I would much rather stick my money under my mattress than to have a bank account.

Every mid-month payday, I go to the credit union and take out, in cash, all the money I will need for groceries for the month, metropass, child support, and one of the bills I pay in person. Then I go home and pay my phone and cable by internet banking.

I go straight to Canada Post to buy the child support money order (I would rather pay slightly more for a money order, because in order to get a chequing account where you get your cheques back, you have to pay through the nose).

I separate all my cash into three change purses and an envelope. That's how I budget - with three change purses. Never mind lists and accounting programs and spreadsheets - I can't be bothered with that. The hundred bucks for the metropass stays at home in an envelope. The grocery money goes with me in my purse and when it's gone, it's gone. It's so much easier to budget that way - if I'm halfway through the month, and I've got about half the money left in the change purse, I know I'm doing all right. When I'm tempted to buy lunch at work, it comes out of the grocery changepurse, which always makes me think twice because I can see the actual dent it is making in the grocery money. I pay for everything in cash. I use my bank card maybe twice a month - once to pay the rent (that's what the end-of-month paycheque goes to) and once to take out the cash I need for other expenses.

I have gone as low tech as humanly possible in my finances. Every modern "banking convenience" has just made it that much more difficult for me to keep track of my money. But with the budgeted amount of cash in my envelopes and change purses, dwindling as the month goes on, I can keep perfect track of my spending.

I also have a couple of hundred bucks that I have received over a couple of special occasions as gifts, squirreled away at home. I'm almost religious about that money - I feel physically sick at the thought of spending it. It's my only cushion and it's for dire emergencies. Last summer, I had a previous couple of hundred dollars saved. I had it for months, and then in October or so, I had a totally necessary, totally unexpected expense come up, and I was so relieved to have that money there. The couple of hundred I have now is from birthday/Christmas gifts since then. And there it sits, and will sit until my fear of spending it is overcome by such a dire emergency that instead of feeling indecisive about spending it, I feel relief that it's there.

It's quite a turnaround for a gril who used to be a spendthrift. I go into a store now, and feel no desire to be sucked in by the pretty stuff that used to tempt me. In fact, I have occasionally found myself looking at a display of flibbertygibbets and getting actually angry at how unnecessary they are, and at the attempt to manipulate me into wanting one. I've become a radical!

And frankly, I don't want to have anything to do with financial institutions again beyond what I absolutely have to have (like a basic bank account). If that means never buying a house or a car, so be it. I have no desire to find out about investment or insurance plans. It's bullshit, it's exploitative, and I refuse to participate in it.

[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]

So I got a thermos. Now I make my chocolate milk at home from four-litre jugs that cost $3.30, or less than 45 cents a half-litre, plus chocolate milk powder stuff. Say 50 cents/half litre all told, or roughly twenty bucks a month. Saving sixty dollars a month just by carrying a thermos, plus I don't have to wait in line at the convenience store and I like the chocolate milk better.

BALLS!

It doesn't cost the bank 30 cents a transaction to process your Interac debit swipes, and it sure as hell doesn't cost the banking system $2.50 to reconcile the Interac machine when you take money out on a bank machine that isn't your own bank's.

Bastards.

Onto investing:

The paper economy has nothing to do with the real economy.

Buying stocks might as well be going in for the gambling chips at the casino for all the connection it has to the real assets underlying those numbers in a computer.

GICs and money market funds and bonds are far more "tangible" by this standard than the paper glitz of the stock market.

This is why my ethical objections are muted when placing monies in an RRSP backed by a GIC, or by long-term government bonds.

Bonds, unlike stocks, vary in value in an absolutely predictable way based on interest rates and there's even a mathematical formula you can use to figure out what the discount or surcharge is you need to pay when you buy in the secondary market.

Don't know if I'm a bit too late to teh conversation, but I have what I consider a theoretical budget. It's an excel spreadsheet that totals up every bill over the month. The ones I know the numbers for (student loans, car loan, etc.) are there and the ones that fluctuate (gas, groceries, etc.) have a monthly average. This number is totalled up and subtracted from the average monthly pay (two paycheques). What is left over I consider free spending. I keep track of what I spend on this category in my head. As long as I don't spend more than this in a month, I know that I will make my financial obligations.

I have automatic transfers to a savings account, to an account to pay the property tax, to my RRSP (ethical funds through a credit union), and I treat these transfers as bills, so I don't need to account for them at any point during the month. They take care of themselves.

The rest of my bills are paid either by direct payment from my chequing account or on my Mastercard (the only credit card I have, and it's a free one--and I NEVER carry a balance) so I don't ahve to worry about making payments on time. The only bill I have to consciously pay is the mastercard, and I set that up the day I receive the bill in advance. And every month I tally up my free spending (which all goes on the credit card, so I can keep track) to make sure I didn't spend over the limit.

And then two months a year you have a glorious three-paycheque month. This money goes to larger bills--tuition, usually.

My goal for donations is to give 5% of my after-tax income away. I have some regular donations that come off my paycheque or onto my Mastercard every month. The other ones are annual memberships that I spend every year. I know what 5% of my monthly after-tax income is and I aim to spend that much--rabble is one, of course. Others are local food banks, shelters, a ferret shelter I used to volunteer for (and now can't because my allergies got too bad), the NDP, CCPA, NAPO, the CDA, and a few others. I find by having a conscious goal of a particular dollar figure I'm more likely to meet it and lessl ikely to blow it on books and magazines.

I have a bank account that doesn't charge me anything as long as I keep a minimum balance. I know that's cold comfort to those who are just getting by but for people with the extra cash I'd recommend it. If you can save $10 in fees for keeping a minimum balance of $1000 then it's like earning 12% tax free. Plus, you have a cushion in case of emergency.

I use credit cards for pretty much everything but I don't carry a balance. Once in a while, I'll do up a budget to figure out how much I should be able to put into savings but I never actually track to it. There are too many variables.

I've always lived below my means, even in the bad old days in Alberta when I made not much more than mimimum wage. When I was going to school, I saved spare nickels and dimes to make up an emergency fund. By time I graduated, I had $200 in "found" money. I've only ever borrowed money for my education and my condominium.

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Originally posted by Doug:
So, did anyone else remember at the last moment that it was the RRSP deadline today and go all nuts trying to make a contribution?

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Both graduate from university at age 22, one sister is able to put away $2,000/year for the first 10 years but then falls on some hard times. The other sister struggles through the first 10 years but is able to put away $2,000/year from age 33-65. When they reach 65 the sister who invested from 33-65 offers to help her sister since she had a hard time, however the sister who invested from 22-32 actually has more money saved due to the compounding of interest.

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Originally posted by Doug:
So, did anyone else remember at the last moment that it was the RRSP deadline today and go all nuts trying to make a contribution?

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Originally posted by Lizard Breath:
I'm not totally sure this is the right forum for this, but it used to be called "earning and spending", so maybe it's okay.

I'm wondering how other folks manage their personal finances. Do you keep a strict budget? Are you more of a free-flow earner/spender? Do you have investments or major debts? How do you manage them?

And I'm also wondering about folks' philosophies about money and spending/saving etc. Do you aspire to acquire great wealth? Do you have any particular feelings about investments or the money market etc.

Me, somehow I've always managed to have enough money to pay my rent and keep myself healthy and happy. I haven't been particularly thoughtful about it, though, or intentional, and often I've been outright frivolous or stupid, but managed to not throw myself into destitution. I'm coming up to a time in my life now when I realize I should get more serious about my money, and should probably start saving for The Future, and dealing with my student debt, etc.

Just wondering how other people deal with this and just generally interested in how others think about money etc.

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As a federal civil servant , it is getting harder because the federal government, in spite of seeming to pay attention to matters bureaucratic, is trying to make sure its lower level employees get less than the rise in the cost of living.