The report suggests the external world engage thru diplomacy and exchanges to help the reformers and anti-Ahmadinejad political forces gain more space within Iran.

The kooky Holocaust-denier President is much less powerful than often reported in the media, his base being the hardline fundmanentalist groups and paramilitaries who can offer the burgeoning population little in terms of wanted freedoms, economic gains or stability.

WHat he said (depending on the translator's interpretation) is that the existance of the holocause is being used 'mythically' by Israel as justification for criminal acts. That's an absolutely correct observation.

In english, the word myth has a technical as well as a vernacular definition. To scholars, the term means something like 'potent story', while often in common use it means "false story'.

Its a lost nation with captive citizens

Iran is funding massive research to debunk the Holacaust, there is no defending their leaders intent by playing with semantics...

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Originally posted by GT Snowracer:
S1m0n.... really lets be honest.

Iran is funding massive research to debunk the Holacaust, there is no defending their leaders intent by playing with semantics...

Be real
GT

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
No, he actually came right out and denied the Holocaust happened. That is pretty much established. It was at a public conference covered in all the major local and European press - I read the statements in British, French, German and other media.

Many Iranians, for this and other reasons, economic and political, think he is not good for their country.

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The comments are on the record, done and done. Many Iranians internally aren't nearly as delusional as you are sounding. They can at least admit that there is a huge problem with their leaders motives.

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Originally posted by GT Snowracer:
S1mon.... drop it and deal with some reality.

The comments are on the record, done and done.

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The Holocaust denial by the current Iranian President on a number of occasions is just one element in the overal picture, revealing though it may be.

Iran doesn't have freedom of press so what would you expect them to produce?

I think I would ask you to support your assertions before I waste anymore time on you thanks.

I have no use for theocratic backward regimes of any stripe. But you know, I didn't see a convincing report quoting the Iranian president denying that Jews were butchered by the Nazis and their collaborators in obscene numbers.

What I did see and hear was a lot of anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist rhetoric. That's very different, except for those who like to invoke the Holocaust as moral and emotional blackmail against critics of Israel and Zionism.

OK, I'm out of here.

[ 21 April 2006: Message edited by: Critical Mass2 ]

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, has again caused international outcry by repeating his view that the Holocaust was a myth.

In a speech broadcast live on state television on Wednesday, Ahmadinejad told a crowd in the southern city of Zahedan: "They have fabricated a legend under the name Massacre of the Jews, and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves.

"If somebody in their country questions God, nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream."

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Originally posted by GT Snowracer:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/60AE1720-F333-4869-974D-3B69283105BF.htm

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, has again caused international outcry by repeating his view that the Holocaust was a myth.

In a speech broadcast live on state television on Wednesday, Ahmadinejad told a crowd in the southern city of Zahedan: "They have fabricated a legend under the name Massacre of the Jews, and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves.

"If somebody in their country questions God, nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream."

Try reading Al Jazeera or Iran Focus.. (I'm not slamming ya, just look into it)
GT

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Yup, the massacre of the jews gets used mythically to attack zionism's enemies, and no one is allowed to deny this use.

You'll note that he is specifically comparing two myths--the Holocaust, and the existance of God, and contrasting the degree of respect each is accorded in western society.

In order to assert that he denies the holocaust, the parallel structure of these statements would force you to also assert that he is also denying the existance of Allah, a thing that--as a religious muslim--would constitue the sin of apostacy. We can be confident that this isn't what he's doing.

[ 21 April 2006: Message edited by: S1m0n ]

These attempts to argue that Holocaust denial is not really Holocaust denial are creeping me out.

P.S. I have asked the moderator to make a ruling about this thread. I now regret having tried to make a serious contribution to the debate.

[ 21 April 2006: Message edited by: Critical Mass2 ]

It isn't Israelis dying, after all.

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
Could you discuss the article and its proposals for diplomatic solutions?

These attempts to argue that Holocaust denial is not really Holocaust denial are creeping me out.

P.S. I have asked the moderator to make a ruling about this thread. I now regret having tried to make a serious contribution to the debate.

[ 21 April 2006: Message edited by: Critical Mass2 ]

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CM, I don't see any Holocaust denial going on here, which would be my main concern. There is a debate on whether the President of Iran is a Holocaust denier, which seems to be hinging on some pretty fine points. I'm not offering an opinion on that.

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So what's Israel ever done to Iran anyways? They certainly didn't invade or occupy any Iranian land.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:

You're right - that was Saddam Hussein.

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What, for that matter, has Iran ever done to Israel?

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Someone more knowledgable than me can correct me, but I'd imagine that some of the cost differences are due to transportation and 'projecting' power. Iran doesn't have an army that can be projected much beyond their current borders. Canada can't drive their army from one end of the country to the other, let along across the ocean. A navy would also up the cost considerably.

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both the US and Israel are nuklar powers; Iran isn't....also, it seems that the US sold Iran, under the shah, a bunch of the nuclear reactors (20 some(?)) that Iran didn't need or want- there seems to be hypocrisy here.

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You're right, there is. I don't want to see Iran get nuclear weapons but we may be reaping what we've sown by allowing any country to possess them.