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Author Topic: Zimbabwe
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 23 May 2004 07:44 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll comment more on this story later but right now it's past 3:30 in the morning and I'm tired.

quote:

Zimbabwe MP defiant after brawl

A Zimbabwe opposition MP who assaulted a minister in parliament has said he will not be intimidated by the ruling Zanu-PF party.

"No amount of threats will intimate me, I have lived with them for four years," Roy Bennett told the BBC.

On Thursday Zanu-PF supporters attacked the Movement for Democratic Change party headquarters in Harare.


Continued atbbcnews


quote:

Zimbabwe MPs brawl in parliament

An opposition MP attacked a minister in Zimbabwe's parliament in retaliation for "personal and racist abuse".
Roy Bennett, one of three white MPs, assaulted Justice Minister Patrick Chinamasa, after the minister said Mr Bennett would never return to his farm.

The state-run Ziana news agency said Mr Bennett "grabbed Chinamasa by the throat, shook him violently and pushed him to the ground".

Mr Bennett has been chased off his land despite court orders in his favour.

continued atbbcnews


One thing I'll say in the story there's allegations of Zanu-PF (Mugabe's party) cheating in a bye-election if a specific link to that can be put on this thread that would be great


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 23 May 2004 02:41 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting fact:

Mugabe is Maoist scum, MFC is a social democratic party.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 23 May 2004 06:27 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
NDP Newbie I don't disagree with you, although to be exact it's the MDC.

The whole issue of Land Reform throughout Southern Africa, and to a lesser extent places like Kenya is very important (heck we need to properly settle with our indiginous people's something that hasn't been done well, especially in British Columbia). Mugabe though has used this as a crutch to hide from the fact that he's a power hungry dictator. The MDC as a Social Democratic party would move on this issue, after all social justice is important to Social Democratic parties the world over, Mugabe however has seen this as a perfect way to hide from his failings relating to the economy, hiv/aids and many other things.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Holy Holy Holy
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posted 24 May 2004 05:01 PM      Profile for Holy Holy Holy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mugabe doesn't plan to run for re-election. You probly haven't seen this, given that Mugabe's voluntary handover of power hinders the media's attempts to paint him as a "maoist thug" (?), but nonetheless I continue to believe that Mugabe's biggest sin has been taking on Bush and Blair. If he quietly toed the line no one would be talking about him.

And anyone who wants to claim otherwise can do so - once they name the "democratically elected" leader of Congo-Brazzaville.


From: Holy | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 25 May 2004 01:16 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's all well and good that Mugabe is going to retire. But it doesn't nessecarily improve the lives of the Zimbabwean people, and no not just the lives of the whites in the country, minority groups like the Ndebele will still be persecuted by the Zanu-PF gov't along with other people who have the audacity to critisize the gov't.

No offence but I don't think you were paying attention. It seems as if your just too angry at Bush & Blair, and their supporters, to recognize that Mugabe is a maoist thug. Heck he doesn't even have to be called a maoist thug, Ideology isn't important to him power is. But even if he does retire what needs to change is the obvious electoral fraud and and intimidation of the opposition. Just because Mugabe isn't nessecarily an ideological or strategic friend of Bush & Blair doesn't mean he's our Friend. Or that we should just say Bush & Blair don't like him so we progressives, social democrats, socialists and whatever shouldn't make his life more difficult than it already is. That sort of thinking financed people like Al-Qaeda, after all they were fighting those "commie's and ruskies" so they must be good.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 25 May 2004 09:04 AM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
His biggest blunder was the bizarre tirade about British gays ("lower than pigs and dogs") trying to export homosexuality to Africa, under the orders of "gay gangster" Tony Blair. Among progressives, it's pretty hard to knock an African revolutionary who led a former British colony to independence, but even the Guardian has dismissed him (“From freedom fighter to oppressor…”). Say what you like about the Guardian, but I wouldn’t exactly call them lackeys of Blair/ Bush. I suppose the apologists for Mugabe and his ilk would say that his words and deeds are just for “local consumption” and not indicative of his personal higher views. “He’s not really a nutcase racist homophobic tyrant; he just plays one on TV.”
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Vansterdam Kid
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posted 08 June 2004 03:22 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Zimbabwe ends private Land ownership.

quote:

Zimbabwe ends private land ownership
Last Updated Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:34:51

HARARE, ZIMBABWE - Zimbabwe will nationalize all farmland and abolish private land ownership, the country's land reforms minister said on Tuesday.

John Nkomo said all land will become the property of the state and property deeds will be replaced with state-issued 99-year leases.
"There shall be no such thing as private land," Nkomo said.

Under President Robert Mugabe's controversial land reform measures that began in 2000, almost 5,000 white-owned farms have been handed over to landless blacks. Mugabe had argued the seizures were necessary to resettle blacks kicked off their land during British colonization.

"Ultimately all land shall be resettled as state property," said Nkomo.

Critics say much of the best farmland is not being used because the resettled farmers are too poor to afford equipment, supplies and seed. Production of two of the country's biggest money earners – food and tobacco – has dropped dramatically.

Humanitarian groups have warned that the country is facing a food shortage. The United Nations estimates Zimbabwe will produce half the food it needs for this year.


source cbc

I believe in private property (so long as things like water sheds, public parks, important heritage & cultural sites etc. aren't privatized) -- so I'm not fan of this move. Although I'm more worried about the people that are facing starvation because the country isn't self-sufficient in food production anymore and the economy is in the tanks so therefore the people can't even afford to buy food!


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 08 June 2004 03:36 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ending private land ownership, in principle, isn't all that radical an idea. For example, it creates a level playing field for competing businesses. And when there is a shortage of land that isn't such a bad thing. But in this case it looks like a way for Mugabe to give himself more flexibility in public policy.

So when is he leaving office?


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Rufus Polson
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posted 08 June 2004 07:59 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Seems to me the real problem here is a matter of new farmers without skills or equipment.
I'm not convinced that it would be best for them to be using the *same* kinds of skills and equipment the white farmers used. But they need something to work with, and it seems as if many of them don't have the knowledge or the stuff they need.
The whole no-private-ownership thing I think is mainly orthogonal to that. People working farms they don't own can work if the leases are long enough and the expectation of re-leasing solid. They need to have confidence that it's worth putting effort into improvement because the family will be there for a while.

Given the actual situation, I'm not sure it's likely to work. I can envision a lot of parcels going to fat-assed party cronies, a lot of leases determined based on connections. I suppose it's better if they only have it for 99 years than if they actually get to own the land as such, but for practical purposes it's not much different. The change in type of land tenure may just be to enable lots of land to be forced to change hands so that corrupt power brokers can make it stick to their fingers as it passes through them.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 09 June 2004 07:34 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well N.Beltsov we can respectfully disagree about private property. Other than that I agree with both of of the last two posts regarding this move.
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 01 April 2005 06:18 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not very surprising

quote:
Rivals cry foul as Mugabe wins poll

Zimbabwe's opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, accused Robert Mugabe of stealing parliamentary elections yesterday as the president's party was declared the winner.

With results declared for 98 of the 120 constituencies being contested, the ruling Zanu-PF had taken 62 seats - enough for a majority in the 150-member parliament, where 30 MPs are appointed by Mr Mugabe.

Mr Tsvangirai's Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) had won 35 seats.

[snip]

Before the voting, Mr Mugabe changed electoral law to allow army officers, largely loyal to the ruling party, to serve as election officials.


And so on...


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 01 April 2005 07:12 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CBC did a segment on Mugabe giving a speech yesterday; the nutjob was wearing a brightly festooned shirt with photos of Mugabe himself sewn all over. He looked and sounded like an escapee from the loony bin. Mugabe is the best argument for outside intervention I've seen in many years.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
NDP Newbie
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posted 01 April 2005 09:54 PM      Profile for NDP Newbie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hate Mugabe.

One second he demeans all things European, the next he uses the Bible, introduced to Africa by European colonialists, as justification for his regime's persecution of homosexuals.

This in spite of the fact that homosexuals, being more left-wing than the average, were more likely than most Whites to back Mugabe in the civil war he led against neo-Nazi White supremacist Ian Smith.

When I see what the American religious reich has done to Africa, I am sickened. Even Mbeki was under their fascist spell at one point, judging by his unwillingness to accept that HIV is the cause of AIDS, which he has since accepted.


From: Cornwall, ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
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posted 01 April 2005 11:36 PM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I continue to believe that Mugabe's biggest sin has been taking on Bush and Blair. If he quietly toed the line no one would be talking about him.

No one, that is, except for all the trade unionists, intellectuals, artists, gay activists, journalists, and just plain ordinary Zimbabweans who hate Mugabe's guts for reasons totally unrelated to his alleged battles against Anglo-American imperialism.


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Cueball
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posted 02 April 2005 12:35 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by voice of the damned:

No one, that is, except for all the trade unionists, intellectuals, artists, gay activists, journalists, and just plain ordinary Zimbabweans who hate Mugabe's guts for reasons totally unrelated to his alleged battles against Anglo-American imperialism.


Since when did the "trade unionists, intellectuals, artists, gay activists, journalists, and just plain ordinary" folks not hate the goverment. It is our sacred obligation, que no?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 02 April 2005 01:08 AM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm having a difficult time determining what's what in Zimbabwe. I agree with some here that attention is only being paid to Mugabe because he pissed off Blair and Bush and because he's kicking white farmers off the land. The main characters commenting on Zimbabwe in the UK seem to be the types who insist on calling it Rhodesia and living in a narrative of white man's burden gone wrong. That alone makes me very reluctant to blame everything on Mugabe the way they are here. Mugabe was key in overcoming British occupation if I'm remembering my history right. But there's also been many stories of intimidation of minorities other than the white farmers. I don't care if white farmers are forced off the land - they didn't own it legitimately anyway and their protestation of "we're not like those afrikaans" rings wholly false to me. As if colonialism is so much better when it speaks English rather than Dutch. They shouldn't face violence, however. I'm suspicious of these election results just as many others are. But I'm even more wary of the complete blindness many in the north seem to have to the colonial legacy and how it's shaped political culture in Africa.
From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 02 April 2005 03:03 PM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm well aware of the importance of Colonialism in determining the development of the country. I just think it's quite sad and un-excusable that Robert Mugabe is 'whoring out' his status as someone who liberated the country from colonial rule to cement his grip on power. Frankly he could've personally fed little children and liberated the country himself, it still wouldn't excuse his human rights record and pure incomptence.
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
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posted 02 April 2005 05:13 PM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I just think it's quite sad and un-excusable that Robert Mugabe is 'whoring out' his status as someone who liberated the country from colonial rule to cement his grip on power.

Well, yeah. Let's say you work for an asshole boss who owes all his employees a few months back pay. One day, a particulary heroic co-worker leads you all into the boss's office to demand the pay. After the pay is handed to him in an envelope, he takes it down to the local pub and starts ordering round after round for himself and a few select friends. When you approach him to ask for your share, he snaps back "Shut the fuck up!! If it wasn't for me, we wouldn't have this pay in the first place! You're just sucking up to the boss, aren't you?" Then he wacks you one accross the face to make sure you understand. At this point, are you really gonna care how much of a hero he was earlier in the afternoon?


From: Asia | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
tommie
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posted 16 April 2005 06:38 AM      Profile for tommie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mugabe is a great man and a true progressive leader. Shame on any "progressive" who doesn't stick up for a visionary like Mugabe who is constantly attacked in a racist manner by the media.


From: Canada? | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 16 April 2005 09:51 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From a friend in South Africa not too long ago:

(edited to remove personal references)

"I no longer subscribe to the "Mugabe's lost it" school of thought. He is certainly paranoid and
that has made him insular. He's a bitter man with several imaginary enemies, most notably "British Colonialism" which can mean anything he wants it to. But I believe he knows what goes on, stays on top of the game, and out-manoevres his rivals and opponents at every turn.

No, Mugabe's not mad. He's evil which is a different thing altogether.

About the elections: these are Parliamentary
elections. The last ones were fought in 2000, amid bitter violence, and the opposition MDC which at the time was only 7 months old,
managed to wipe out Mugabe's big majority (though he still won, he did not have power to mess with the Constitution). That gave him a big
fright and ever since he's been destroying political and civil rights that make opposition possible. It's in character; though Mugabe was a
freedom fighter, he was never a Democrat."

(this letter was sent prior to last month's elections)


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rand McNally
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posted 16 April 2005 10:08 AM      Profile for Rand McNally     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Atlantic did a interesting article on Zimbabwe in their Dec 2003 issue, called "How To Kill A Country: Turning a breadbasket into a basket case in ten easy steps—the Robert Mugabe way".

quote:
although Zimbabwe is as broken as any country on the planet, it offers a testament not to some inherent African inability to govern but to a minority rule as oppressive and inconsiderate of the welfare of citizens as its ignominious white predecessor. The country's economy in 1997 was the fastest growing in all of Africa; now it is the fastest shrinking. A onetime net exporter of maize, cotton, beef, tobacco, roses, and sugarcane now exports only its educated professionals, who are fleeing by the tens of thousands. Although Zimbabwe has some of the richest farmland in Africa, children with distended bellies have begun arriving at school looking like miniature pregnant women.

Did Tommie forget sarcasm tags? If not, I would be curious to see his definition of progressive.


From: Manitoba | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 16 April 2005 12:56 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Progressive" = opposed to the US government. There are only two sides to all questions. US = bad, therefore Mugabe = good. Didn't you get the memo?
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 16 April 2005 01:06 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bobolink
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posted 16 April 2005 02:11 PM      Profile for Bobolink   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One must remember that Mugabe is a Marxist which means that his contempt for the working class knows no bounds.

[ 16 April 2005: Message edited by: Bobolink ]


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tommie
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posted 16 April 2005 02:30 PM      Profile for tommie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The entire "Mugabe turned Zimbabwe from breadbasket to emptybasket" is a racist argument. It implies that blacks are completely unable to do anything right and that the former apartheid regime was so wonderful and benevolent for having the compassion to let all those silly blacks live.

There are problems in Zimbabwe but most of those are results of external actions. The IMF imposed devastating structural readjustment programmes on the country in the early nineties and Mugabe has just recently managed to get out of them and re-nationalize aspects of the economy. After the just land reforms of 2000 the international community failed to provide training and support to peasants who had reclaimed the farmlands. Thus, many farms turned into wastelands because they didn’t know what they were doing.

Things are improving, however. Unemployment was reduced by about 20% last year and some parts of the country are actually starting to export food again. The fact of the manner is that Mugabe has made some mistakes, but as a progressive I certainly support the ZANU-PF in it’s struggle to take Zimbabwe down an independent socio-economic path.


From: Canada? | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rand McNally
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posted 16 April 2005 04:34 PM      Profile for Rand McNally     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Mugabe turned Zimbabwe from breadbasket to emptybasket" is a racist argument. It implies that blacks are completely unable to do anything right and that the former apartheid regime was so wonderful and benevolent for having the compassion to let all those silly blacks live.

I have to disagree; one can oppose the policies of Mugabe, without pining for the days of white rule. I think I can criticize one man, without criticizing his people.

quote:
as a progressive I certainly support the ZANU-PF in it’s struggle to take Zimbabwe down an independent socio-economic path.

So you support such “progressive” policies as:

Race-based politics, I am not just talking about the white farmers here, but the ~25,000 Ndebele who were killed by Mugabe's troops;

State controlled media, clamp downs on foreign reporters, and human rights groups operating inside the country.

Election tampering, repression of rival political parties, manipulation of food distribution by the government-controlled Grain Marketing Board, denying opposition supporters access staple foods;

Use of torture and political violence, such as the burning of homes to quell political dissent;

His stated “progressive” views on homosexuality.

If that is a progressive socio-economic path then I guess I am a regressive. I have stated on this site before that my political principles are liberal democratic; what is happening currently in Zimbabwe falls far short of those principles.

For more information http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-zwe/index

[ 16 April 2005: Message edited by: Rand McNally ]


From: Manitoba | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 17 April 2005 02:24 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I have to disagree; one can oppose the policies of Mugabe, without pining for the days of white rule. I think I can criticize one man, without criticizing his people.

Oh Rand, you missed another memo. To criticize one African despot is to criticize all Africans. Like Tommie says, Mugabe is African, therefore progressive. He is in power, therefore he is the legitimate voice of African people. (Geez, talk about racist!)

To me Mugabe's story is a great tragedy. He was a genuine popular revolutionary leader. He has betrayed those who supported him and become a common thug. And now he's the single greatest obstacle to Zimbabweans liberating themselves.


From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
FabFabian
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posted 18 April 2005 01:31 AM      Profile for FabFabian        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I once sent a letter to then foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy, regarding Mugambe and Zimbabwe and what the Canadian government's stand was. The reply was a basic we are concerned, we believe in the land distribution, there are no plans for sanctions line. That was what? 7 or 8 years ago? The situation went from bad to worse.

How can a once envied part of Africa, a success story be so pathetic? Two words, Robert Mugambe. The man is evil personified, pitting citizens against each other, rewarding cronies and making the public starved and afraid. The sooner this ass buys the farm the better.


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 18 April 2005 03:07 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While I'm not convinced by Tommie's optimism, I'm not necessarily convinced by the media's demonization either. No matter what Mugabe's actually like, I think we can all figure that his policies of nationalization and of taking land away from rich whites are going to make the media say lots and lots of nasty things about him.

After all, the media say lots of nasty things about Hugo Chavez as well, and when one gets the fact it turns out that in his case they're about as wrong as you can be. Yet for some time leftists were lukewarm and defensive in their support for Chavez because of those reports--it was all, "Yes I expect he's authoritarian, but . . . " We had internalized the media's reports, concluded no smoke without fire. Only gradually did the truth begin to come out.

Now, I'm not saying Mugabe's a Hugo Chavez. I really don't think he is. But then, it might be dashed hard to be a Hugo Chavez without oil. And however bad he may be, he also seems to have recently been re-elected again, in elections that international observers concluded were free and fair.

So I think maybe we need some nuance in how we look at Zimbabwe and Mugabe, and to pay attention to how discussions of them are framed, and certainly question the depictions we get from the mainstream media. They may be telling the truth, but on the other hand we know that if Mugabe were the second coming of Christ they'd still be saying what they're saying.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 08 May 2005 04:20 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Saw another article on Zimbabwe.
It seems quite positive about the land reform thing, and gives some background on just how the whites got all those huge farms, and how recently blacks were still being forcibly shoved off their land and herded into overcrowded barely-arable areas.
What the west doesn't want to know

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 08 May 2005 05:01 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The key indicator that'll tell us that Zimbabwe has gone to hell in a handbasket is how high the inflation rate is. Governments like Mugabe's tend to have a habit of printing money to cover their expenses which nobody will rein in because the head honcho is an autocrat who already has it made.

Keep an eye out.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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