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Author Topic: Disgruntled Tim Hortons employee facebook group makes the news
Michelle
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posted 12 January 2008 09:08 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Someone's gonna hear about this, I'll bet.

quote:
There seems to be more than coffee brewing at Tim Hortons.

Frustrated employees have banded together on the popular social networking site Facebook to give cranky customers the basic rules on how to order their daily fix if they want to get good service.

A trip to Tim Hortons is part of the daily routine for many Canadians, but it doesn't necessarily seem to be the warm and fuzzy experience the commercials make them out to be for people on both sides of the counter.


Here's the Facebook group (you have to be a member of Facebook to view it).

Seems to me like just your run-of-the-mill customer service venting places. Considering that Tim's isn't unionized, and customer service jobs aren't exactly the most secure employment in the world, it probably isn't the wisest idea to use your real name when doing stuff like this.

That said, I hope she doesn't get fired. As far as I'm concerned, fast food and customer service workers should get an hour a day paid for venting alone, just for mental health reasons.

P.S. Asshole Customers - love this thread on the group. Anyone who has worked customer service will recognize all of these customers!

[ 12 January 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Canadian Centrist
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posted 12 January 2008 09:41 AM      Profile for The Canadian Centrist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not to me disgruntled. Realistic, and needed to be said stuff. Also, is helpful for me as I am a customer and to know that stuff is good.
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Tommy_Paine
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posted 12 January 2008 10:01 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Although I've suffered at the hands of an erroneous order before, like getting a "double double" instead of my "large regular", by and large all my Tim horror stories and beefs are with the customers. People who spend five minutes in line and don't know what they want when it comes their turn, etc., or deliver their order in such a manner that it invites error, or place large orders in the drive through.

How hard can it be, really? I think maybe, if you can't get in and out of Tim's quickly without causing a fuss, then maybe it's clear demonstration that one should have one's driver's license taken away, any professional degrees or certificates expunged, fired from one's job and have one's kids made wards of the state.

'Cause if you can't handle a simple thing like getting in and out of Tim Horton's in the most efficient manner possible, then you can't be trusted to deal with these important things, either.

No soup for you.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 12 January 2008 10:20 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My son worked for Tims in grade 12 and the year after. I just showed him the site and he was howlling! And tell me all of his stories.

I think there are issues on both sides of the counter


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 12 January 2008 10:27 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hate Tim's coffee - always too strong - but their sandwiches are great.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
bruce_the_vii
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posted 12 January 2008 12:28 PM      Profile for bruce_the_vii     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
On another forum I posted I think two posters had information about their posts about the job passed back to the employer. Make it a rule, don't post anything about your employer that may compromise you.
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Boom Boom
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posted 13 January 2008 06:25 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More disgruntled Tim Hortons groups on Facebook:

Boycott Tim Hortons

excerpt:

6. Tim’s is not Canadian.
It sold out long ago. Don’t kid yourself if national pride plays into the equation.

Outraged Tim Horton's Staff Unite: We know how much it REALLY sucks.Global

excerpt:

This group is for anyone who used to work/currently works at Tim Horton's, and knows that it really is NOT something to be celebrated. We know the TRUTH about the Always Fresh "guarantee" and the intensive, borderline illegal labour forced on the workers. All this and more, at just the low, low price just over minimum wage!

TIM HORTON'S service sucks!!!!!!!!!

excerpt:

"Now, I still like the coffee and food but the atmosphere and attitude of Tim Hortons has changed....for the worse."

Service at Tim Horton Sucks 97% of the time

excerpt:

"Not once in the two years i've been in Canada have i drank such nasty coffee like they have at tim horton's. it's worse than airline coffee."

Tim Hortons sucks ass

excerpt:

"Remember when they used to make coffee & donuts? Now it seems they could care less about that. They'd sooner shove soup, Ice Caps & shitty sandwiches down your throat. They don't even make the food on site anymore. Those eggs in the breakfast sandwiches are frozen in Brantford Ont. and trucked all over North America. This goes for most of their food products. That chilli meat looks like something in a baby diaper.
"Always Fresh" my ass."


Tim Horton's Coffee sucks

excerpt:

"I am sorry, but Tim Horton's coffee sucks! Why is there always a line up at TH? Are people complete sheep or what? Anyone who actually enjoys coffee would know that it is crap there. Bitter, shite beans etc. The staff have to werar stupid uniforms, get paid shit, and they produce way too much of the litter I see on the landscape... Enough already!"

I had a ball reading all this stuff, because I thought I was alone in hating Tim's coffee!

[ 13 January 2008: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 13 January 2008 06:30 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bruce_the_vii:
Make it a rule, don't post anything about your employer that may compromise you.

That has always been my CARDINAL RULE on babble when it has come to my day jobs.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 13 January 2008 06:38 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the links, Boom Boom. I love the first one, "Outraged Tim Horton's Staff Unite". It seems to be made up of mostly former staff who hate it with a passion.

They don't even get free Timbits or coffee? What a crock. When I worked at a bakery, we could take as much bread and buns (baked onsite) as we could use, for free.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 13 January 2008 06:39 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As I said earlier, my son worked at Tim's for almost 2 years.

He got 40 or more a week, he got in BIG trouble for working 3 weeks straight, because people kept calling in sick and he'd cover their shift.

The stories he tells of his owner (perhaps I should have phrased that differently ...I'm his owner) and supervisor are full of respect and humour.

Yes he had co-worker issues, but what work place doesn't?

The most telling story was how his Tim's sent all their non-on shift staff over to another Tim's in a town 30 minutes away, and owned by another owner, so their staff could ALL go to the funeral of a worker. They car pooled over in mini vans, did a 4 hour shift and all came home.

If you don't like the coffee: don't drink it!

I gave up caffeine 4 years ago (aren't you glad???) and I was thrilled when they started stocking herbal teas.

I have food allergies and they can't guarantee their food is dairy free so the most they get out of me is my tea, and hot chocolate and chocolate glazed Tim Bits when my kids are with me.

Our local owner is a bit of a legend around here. She was recognized by the city a few years ago - this is from the website.

Fay Harshman

Born on a farm in northern Ontario, Fay Harshman made Tim Horton's history by becoming the first woman to own a Tim Horton's franchise.

Fay worked hard to achieve her dream of owning six Tim Horton's franchises. Today, Fay has 139 employees and operates a multi-million dollar business with plans to expand.

Fay moved to the Owen Sound area in 1973. In October 1976, she started serving coffee and donuts behind the counter of Tim Horton's on 10th Street West. When the owner announced to his staff he was going to sell the franchise in 1977, Fay asked if she could buy it, although she had no money to do so.

She approached Horton's Head Office with her plan. Head Office told her if she could successfully run the business for one year and could obtain financing, it was hers. And a success it was, but financing was a problem. Six financial institutions turned down Fay's request for borrowed funds. One local bank manager, however, took a leap of faith and arranged the loan that allowed Fay to buy the franchise. Fay has continued to work hard to maintain the success of her business.

Today, Fay owns and operates a number of Tim Horton franchises in Owen Sound, plus one in Hepworth.

Fay constantly shares her profits with the residents of Owen Sound and area through sponsoring events, projects and teams, reflecting her genuine concern for children, in particular, as well as for the people of the community at large.

Fay's success is a fine example of how hard work, persistence and resilience, combined with a determined single-mindedness, can result in huge financial and personal rewards.

She also ownes the only Tim Hortons in a Home Depot (the rest are Starbucks).

As I work with women in poverty, Faye remains proof that success can be achieved.

Now it's not without issue as TDL (who ownes Tims) has taken over the hospital cafateria and put high paying workers out of jobs for low paying workers. I've had many conversations with the president of the OPSUE local over this issue.


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 January 2008 06:52 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I leave the coast to go out to Sept-Iles for a weeke evrey year, sometimes longer, and I stopped going to Tim's about five years ago because their coffee blows. I used to like their sandwiches but I'm reading that the quality of these has gone downhill. I no longer have any reason to ever go to Tim's, so I don't. Screw 'em.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 13 January 2008 07:10 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Today, Fay owns and operates a number of Tim Horton franchises in Owen Sound, plus one in Hepworth.

When I go up to the Bruce, I pass through Hepworth ( of course...besides a few other bad roads, there is no other way) and in the years before the Tim Horton's there, I used to think, "Boy, I bet this would be a great place for a Tim Horton's".

I come up the less traveled county road 10, which I pick up much further south at Clifford. (where there is a very nice and always busy family restaurant) It's a nicer way to go... when the road from Scone to Hwy 21 is open...


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 13 January 2008 07:45 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:

When I go up to the Bruce, I pass through Hepworth ( of course...besides a few other bad roads, there is no other way) and in the years before the Tim Horton's there, I used to think, "Boy, I bet this would be a great place for a Tim Horton's".

I come up the less traveled county road 10, which I pick up much further south at Clifford. (where there is a very nice and always busy family restaurant) It's a nicer way to go... when the road from Scone to Hwy 21 is open...


It's OPEN!! For now anyway.

It took Faye 5 years to convince them to put the Hepworth Tims in, it's in the middle of 'nowhere'. It is not consistently, in the summer, in the top 5 busiest Tim Hortons in CANADA!!!

Us locals avoid it June through September, as it's just minutes away from Sauble Beach


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
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posted 13 January 2008 08:34 AM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Fay's success is a fine example of how hard work, persistence and resilience, combined with a determined single-mindedness, can result in huge financial and personal rewards.

She also ownes the only Tim Hortons in a Home Depot (the rest are Starbucks).

As I work with women in poverty, Faye remains proof that success can be achieved.


Sorry but there appears to be a number of problematic assumptions in both the piece your quoting and your response.

Fay's hardwork, resilience etc. is also combined with a large stroke of pure luck,being at the right place at the right time. It would be impossible to predict at the time that Tim Horton's would become the phenomena it is today, it seems as though she got in at the right time and took advantage of a rare opportunity.

There is also the fact that making money through the ownership of fast food franchise is still built around exploitive labour practices that are deeply embedded in both the industry and our social economic system at large.

The main assumption being made and the myth promoted is that all you need to "suceed" is hardwork, persistence, single-mindedness" etc. This of course is the biggest lie that capitalism is built upon the reality is the majority of people throughout this world demonstrate these qualities and remain in grinding poverty.

I'm not suggesting that Fay is an "evil" woman but to promote her as a role model for women experiencing poverty just perpetuates capitalisms cruelest joke.


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 13 January 2008 08:36 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, since I'm on my way up to either Cypress Lake, or the Tub, it's a good place to grab a coffee for the rest of the drive. And a good place for a pee.

I know it gets "busy", but never so much that I can't make the left out of Tim's to go north on 6. It's funny how relative things like that are.

Another Tim's Gold Mine seems to be the one at Arthur, on Hwy 6 and the road that takes you eventually to Orangeville. I usually make a stop there on my way to or from Dundalk. It's always packed.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 13 January 2008 08:41 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
[QB]Well, since I'm on my way up to either Cypress Lake, or the Tub, it's a good place to grab a coffee for the rest of the drive. And a good place for a pee.
QB]

Cyprus!!

Indian Head Cove is one of my 'happy' places


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 13 January 2008 09:20 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Typo, sorry. The whole park is one of my "happy places" too, has been since I first visited back in the mid 70's.

Ever since then, I go up and spend a good time, part of which always involves trying to figure out how I could scratch a living there so I could become a full time resident instead of a tourist.

Maybe I should have followed my "gut" way back when, and tried for that Tim's franchise at Hepworth-- though that's a little south on the Bruce for my liking.

Then it opens up the whole can of worms about employing people at such low wages. Midnight shift, customer abuse, for minimum wage. I wouldn't do it myself, so I don't know how I could ask anyone else to.

I've had some small business ideas over the years, but trying to do something that can survive over the winter months seems daunting.

But, obviously, some manage.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Canadian Centrist
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posted 13 January 2008 09:31 AM      Profile for The Canadian Centrist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:

How hard can it be, really? I think maybe, if you can't get in and out of Tim's quickly without causing a fuss, then maybe it's clear demonstration that one should have one's driver's license taken away, any professional degrees or certificates expunged, fired from one's job and have one's kids made wards of the state.


Be more calm man this is crazy what you are saying. Relax okay.


From: The NDP: Parliament's Whitest Party | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 13 January 2008 09:45 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
Typo, sorry. The whole park is one of my "happy places" too, has been since I first visited back in the mid 70's.

Ever since then, I go up and spend a good time, part of which always involves trying to figure out how I could scratch a living there so I could become a full time resident instead of a tourist.

Maybe I should have followed my "gut" way back when, and tried for that Tim's franchise at Hepworth-- though that's a little south on the Bruce for my liking.

Then it opens up the whole can of worms about employing people at such low wages. Midnight shift, customer abuse, for minimum wage. I wouldn't do it myself, so I don't know how I could ask anyone else to.

I've had some small business ideas over the years, but trying to do something that can survive over the winter months seems daunting.

But, obviously, some manage.


Oh come on - Tobermory in February...what's not to love???

Us 'locals' love to watch the newbies try and get through a winter here. The summer allue of peace and tranquility doesn't translate into the darkest mornings in February.

I have spent the years since 1992 eeking out a living here, living anywhere from Cape Croker to Wiarton to Owen Sound. It would take something major for me to leave this area, but it's tough sometimes to make a living and keep a decent paying job.


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 13 January 2008 10:06 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Canadian Centrist:

Be more calm man this is crazy what you are saying. Relax okay.


I put the emoticon and the "Seinfeld" reference to indicate that I was being tongue in cheek.

Mostly.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 13 January 2008 10:19 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Us 'locals' love to watch the newbies try and get through a winter here. The summer allue of peace and tranquility doesn't translate into the darkest mornings in February.

Last June, I talked with a woman who runs one of the shops around the harbour at Tobermory. She was from London, and took over the shop when her parents retired. When I asked about the winter, she confessed that the first one was almost unbearable. I suspect there were money concerns-- I mean, even the hunters and snowmobilers probably don't go as far as Tobermory when the ferry shuts down for the winter. But there is also the isolation. It doesn't make the news here, but I gather Hwy 6 is closed quite often, and for long periods, from the way she talked.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
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posted 13 January 2008 06:18 PM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Last time we went camping, we woke to find everything soaking from the all-night rain. I said to my husband, I could test my wilderness skills (finely honed from living in Toronto most of my life) and stoke a fire to make coffee, or I could find a Tim's.

I hopped in the car and was back in the park fifteen minutes later with two Tim's coffees. Kind of spoiled the whole wilderness illusion for the kids.

As far as the whole retail thing goes, I imagine Tim's is no worse than any of the big retailers. Front-line retail for a large corporation sucks, whoever they are.

When I'm at home, I buy fair-trade coffee from a locally-owned business and generally recommend this if possible. But if you're in a rural area, you don't have the options we have here in downtown centre-of-the-universe, and I think we city slickers sometimes need to work at avoiding excessive smugness at the expense of rural Canadians.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 January 2008 06:24 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sineed:

When I'm at home, I buy fair-trade coffee from a locally-owned business and generally recommend this if possible. But if you're in a rural area, you don't have the options we have here in downtown centre-of-the-universe, and I think we city slickers sometimes need to work at avoiding excessive smugness at the expense of rural Canadians.


I'm a rural resident, no TH's here, thank goodness. But everywhere I've travelled, and that's all across Canada except the far north, if there's a Tim Horton's, then there's other places you can get coffee as well. I look for small, vintage restaurants, the older the better, because generally, in my experience, they make better coffee than TH's.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 13 January 2008 06:45 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tommy

I do not recall Hwy 6 being closed that often.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 13 January 2008 07:48 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Frustrated employees have banded together on the popular social networking site Facebook to give cranky customers the basic rules on how to order their daily fix if they want to get good service

I have read this and I would rather redo my Calculus SAT exam than try to memorize that routine. There is no reason why staff and patrons should have to memorize such a grueling drill just to save the corporation a few seconds!

From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 13 January 2008 09:34 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
I do not recall Hwy 6 being closed that often.

Right. It's Highway 21, between Southampton and Kincardine, that seems to get closed down the most.


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 14 January 2008 04:05 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

When I'm at home, I buy fair-trade coffee from a locally-owned business and generally recommend this if possible. But if you're in a rural area, you don't have the options we have here in downtown centre-of-the-universe, and I think we city slickers sometimes need to work at avoiding excessive smugness at the expense of rural Canadians.[/QB]

Actually my friend's cafe has fair trade coffee and the local Farmers Market has a vendor with fair trade coffee.

We're rural, not isolated


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 14 January 2008 12:28 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
Tommy

I do not recall Hwy 6 being closed that often.



From talking to people at Tobermory, I think the Bruce section of it is, but it would hardly be news worthy.

Even in the summer, there are freaky twilight zone like areas of local weather phenomena on hwy 6, approaching Tobermory.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 14 January 2008 12:56 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:

Sorry but there appears to be a number of problematic assumptions in both the piece your quoting and your response.

Fay's hardwork, resilience etc. is also combined with a large stroke of pure luck,being at the right place at the right time. It would be impossible to predict at the time that Tim Horton's would become the phenomena it is today, it seems as though she got in at the right time and took advantage of a rare opportunity.

There is also the fact that making money through the ownership of fast food franchise is still built around exploitive labour practices that are deeply embedded in both the industry and our social economic system at large.

The main assumption being made and the myth promoted is that all you need to "suceed" is hardwork, persistence, single-mindedness" etc. This of course is the biggest lie that capitalism is built upon the reality is the majority of people throughout this world demonstrate these qualities and remain in grinding poverty.

I'm not suggesting that Fay is an "evil" woman but to promote her as a role model for women experiencing poverty just perpetuates capitalisms cruelest joke.


I don't think the intention was to say that the route out of poverty is hard work and the waiting for a business opportunity. Instead it read to me that this women has shown that she (and others like her) are just as capable as any businessman and that by confining much of our population to a life of poverty and exclusion we are abandoning a great resource.


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 15 January 2008 04:57 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:

Fay's hard work, resilience etc. is also combined with a large stroke of pure luck, being at the right place at the right time.


Claiming this woman's success is due to luck, negates her accomplishments.

I am personal often congratulated for being able to see the opportunity and leap, before others become aware, this doesn't make me lucky, this makes me aware.

Faye also contributes greatly to our community through donations and sponsorships.

There is a local urban legend where she went to purchase a high end car, and was wearing her Tim's uniform. The salesman told her that she wouldn't be able to afford the car because she worked at Tim's. She walked out, drove to another dealership, paid cash for her car, and drove back to the ordinal dealership to point out the error of his assumption.

While there are issues of judgement of Faye in buying such a car, the story inspires women in our community by recognizing that even the richest woman in town gets stereotyped - so it's not just them, and that revenge is a dish best served by proving everyone wrong!


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 15 January 2008 09:17 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tim Horton's has always intrigued me as a pan-Canadian backlash against presumed values of diversity and multiculturalism. Frozen donuts and terrible coffee sold by identically beige and plastic outlets with humiliated and underpaid employees. Oh yes, we love our tossed salad, don't we? Just make sure it's the same goddamn tossed salad all the way across the country: bland, sickly sweet and in a disposable cup.
From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 15 January 2008 09:43 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't understand at all why TH's is so popular. I much rather prefer to frequent small restaurants where not only the coffee and snacks are better, but the service comes with a smile.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 15 January 2008 10:07 PM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I prefer Starbucks (runs for cover)...
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 15 January 2008 11:01 PM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
excerpt
6. Tim’s is not Canadian.
It sold out long ago.

Tim Horton's head offices are in Canada. As for who owns Tim Horton's, it's publically traded, and has owners from around the world. As of September 30, 2007, the fifteen top shareholders were all investment companines (see http://moneycentral.msn.com/ownership?Symbol=THI.) The list is given below: I've marked shareholders with head offices in Canada with a capital C. Note that among the top fifteen shareholders, ten are investment companies headquartered in Canada.

AIM Trimark Investments, 8.5% C
Fidelity Management & Research, 7.8%
RBC Asset Management, Inc., 4.7% C
Mackenzie Financial Corporation, 4.0% C
Jarislowsky Fraser, Ltd., 3.2% C
Phillips, Hager & North Investment Management Ltd., 2.7% C
Vanguard Group, Inc., 2.2%
Harris Investment Management, Inc., 1.9% *
T. Rowe Price Associates, Inc., 1.8%
GWL Investment Management Ltd., 1.6% C
Pyramis Global Advisors, LLC, 1.4%
I. G. Investment Management, Ltd., 1.4% C
Burgundy Asset Management Ltd., 1.2% C
Goodman & Company, Investment Counsel 1.2% C
Barclays Global Investors Canada Limited, 1.1% C **

* Though Harris Investment Management is headquartered in the US, it is owned by BMO.
** Though Barclays Global Investors Canada Limited is headquartered in Canada, it is owned by HSBC, which is headquartered in the UK.

All of this information is highly volatile: On Jan. 15, for example, over one million Tim Horton's shares changed hands (out of a total 187 million shares). Also, an investment company can be headquartered in Canada and yet itself be mostly non-Canadian owned, and vice versa.

[ 15 January 2008: Message edited by: Martha (but not Stewart) ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 16 January 2008 12:05 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're right, Martha, Tim Hortons is now a publicly traded company, and its head offices have always been in Canada (why wouldn't they be? Wouldn't make much sense having them in Illinois...) What that doubtless heavily researched top ten list is referring to, I imagine, is when Dave Thomas of Wendy's Restaurants bought Tim Horton's in 1995 (this is why in service stations and the like their "restaurants" are packaged together. Eventually, the American burger chain spun off Tim Horton's shares to reach their current ownership. As for the vitriol levelled at Timmy's for this crime, I'm not sure if selling shares to a burger chain is worse than switching from fresh to frozen donuts, providing identical decor to a thousand Canadian corners, and wallpapering the country with billboards, storefronts and discarded paper cups (double cup please!)

As for your preference for Starbucks...ick!


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
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posted 16 January 2008 05:39 AM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Claiming this woman's success is due to luck, negates her accomplishments.

No it's placing her accomplishments in a context without dismissing the reality that many people work hard, demononstrate persistence, initiaitive, creativity etc. and end up with FA, to privilege this woman's position it is implied that others have not demonstrated said characteristics, attributes, qualities. The message than becomes the familiar one that is given to impoverished people if you only worked harder, were more creative and showed more initiative than you too could be "successful" The reality is that her success is also due to the exploitive labour practices of the fast food industry.


quote:
Faye also contributes greatly to our community through donations and sponsorships.

This is another familiar message from the dominant ideology, the contribution of the business owner is celebrated and privileged. If someone with lesser means gives the same percentage of time or income they are unlikely to be acknowledged. Charitable giving is also tax deductable and also a wise marketing strategy and source of advertising. Faye would contribute much more if she paid an approximation of a living wage.

[ 16 January 2008: Message edited by: N.R.KISSED ]


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 16 January 2008 05:56 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
If someone with lesser means gives the same percentage of time or income they are unlikely to be acknowledged.

Very true. It's always the "big" gifts that get publicity, meanwhile those lower on the pay scale who give an equal or greater percentage of their time and treasure to charity get ignored.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 January 2008 05:58 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
There is a local urban legend where she went to purchase a high end car, and was wearing her Tim's uniform. The salesman told her that she wouldn't be able to afford the car because she worked at Tim's. She walked out, drove to another dealership, paid cash for her car, and drove back to the ordinal dealership to point out the error of his assumption.

If it had been one of her employees that she was paying minimum wage to that had walked in, that car dealer would've been right.

It's all fine and dandy to get on your high horse about "stereotyping" Tim's employees as poor. Well, guess what? Tim's employees ARE poor. And she's the reason why.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 16 January 2008 06:05 AM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Very true. It's always the "big" gifts that get publicity, meanwhile those lower on the pay scale who give an equal or greater percentage of their time and treasure to charity get ignored.

Let's not forget the widow's mite ....


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 16 January 2008 06:22 AM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
... that doubtless heavily researched top ten list ...

Nah, not heavily researched: I just went to all those investment companies' web pages to find out where they are headquartered. I was frankly surprised to find that so many of Tim Hortons's top shareholders are headquartered in Canada. (Note on the possessive "Tim Hortons's": I just realized that Tim Hortons spells their name without the apostrophe, i.e., as "Tim Hortons". I would guess, then, that the possessive is "Tim Hortons's".)

You're right that Tim Hortons was, for about eleven years, owned (for most of that period, wholly owned) by Wendy's. I gather that Wendy's and Tim Hortons still have a friendly relationship.

Catchfire: " Frozen donuts and terrible coffee sold by identically beige and plastic outlets with humiliated and underpaid employees."

But you like their coffee better than Starbucks coffee? Hmmm. You must really hate Starbucks coffee. I will grant that Tim's coffee beats Coffee Time's, but that isn't saying much. (Coffee Time trivia: there are three Coffee Times in China, twelve in Greece, one in Qatar, and two in California. There used to be one in Wroclaw, Poland, but I guess it closed. All the young Polish hipsters are now in the UK.)


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 16 January 2008 07:18 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry! My mute snark was directed at the original top ten list, not your clarification, which was characteristically concise. I just meant that whomever started the facebook group likely did not concern themselves with details.
From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 16 January 2008 08:07 AM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I misread your post.

What I think we really should be debating is, who makes the best coffee anyway? My favourite place to get coffee is at Louie's at the corner of Augusta and Baldwin, in Kensington Market. I'm not saying that they make the best coffee: it's the best coffee experience all things considered (i.e., coffee, service, view, interesting eavesdropping potential...)

And more thread drift: for anyone fascinated by Coffee Time, I suggest
the Cloney Time webpage, which has 22 wonderful photos of coffee places and other eateries that do their best to look sort of like Coffee Time.

From the web page:

You wouldn't expect a humble donut franchise with a simple and fairly unattractive look to have these sorts of problems, yet Coffee Time knockoffs seem to be everywhere.

Sure, you can see someone taking advantage of someone else's promotional and design efforts and opening a 7-10.998 convenience store, a Backskin Robbins ice cream shop, or that kind of thing. But why is plain old Coffee Time so plagued by rip-offs? It has no advertising, no upscale image, no loyal customer base. Its name is neither catchy nor clever. It has no real logo or slogan worth speaking of, just its very plain name written in yellow Goudy Handtooled against a maroon background.

What special magic does Coffee Time have that makes every other donut and coffee store in Canada strive to imitate it? I still don't know, but here I present the photographic evidence I have collected over the last several years, so that you too can ponder the mystery of this rampant cloning.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 16 January 2008 09:14 AM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

If it had been one of her employees that she was paying minimum wage to that had walked in, that car dealer would've been right.

It's all fine and dandy to get on your high horse about "stereotyping" Tim's employees as poor. Well, guess what? Tim's employees ARE poor. And she's the reason why.



She WAS one of the minimum wage employees - she just worked a deal with TDL when the Tim's she was working at went up for sale.


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 16 January 2008 09:33 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That Cloney Time webpage is hilarious. I often wondered that myself. I mean, I guess Coffee Time doesn't have the corporate clout to hammer down ripoffs--the same way that Tims or Starbucks doubtless would--but is the CT name really that much of a draw? And are those for whom it would be a draw so stupid as to not notice the difference? How bizarre.

I can't speak for coffee in Toronto, although I have had a few good cups in Kensington. In Montreal the two best cafes, bar none, are Cafe Olympico in Mile End and Cafe Italia in Little Italy. God I miss that stuff. Sadly, I currently live in Scotland where the coffee is universally (and criminally) terrible. I can't touch the stuff. I was recently spoiled by a trip to Italy where the best espresso or cappuccino you ever tasted in your life would run you 0.80 Euros. And you could get it anywhere.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
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posted 16 January 2008 10:25 AM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Sadly, I currently live in Scotland where the coffee is universally (and criminally) terrible.

Do they still make capaino's with instant coffee? that was the standard for Scotland and England when I lived there in the 90's


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 January 2008 10:43 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rural - Francesca:
She WAS one of the minimum wage employees - she just worked a deal with TDL when the Tim's she was working at went up for sale.

She was a minimum wage employee when she went to buy that car? You mean, her minimum wage employees can afford to buy that car?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
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posted 16 January 2008 10:46 AM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
She WAS one of the minimum wage employees - she just worked a deal with TDL when the Tim's she was working at went up for sale.

Let me be clear I'm not trying to get on your case but I don't think you're understanding the point that some of us are making.

Faye's story, is a classic "rags to riches" tale and this tale is the backbone of any right-wing ideology the underlying message of this story is anyone can make it if only they try hard enough or are smart enough, ambitious enough, creative enough etc.

These stories are held up as inspirations to the poor but the reality is that they send an implicit message of blame, shame and inadequacy. The message is that if you do not achieve success it is your fault due to a lack of abilities or efforts. THe amount of shame and blame experienced by those living in poverty in rural or small town, city environments is substantial and the classic capitalist cultural myths create this.

What these stories leave out is what some of us have been talking about.

Faye managed to get in at the right time, a time before Tim's was the booming franchise it is now, I doubt head office would be making deals with cashiers now and the amount to buy a franchise has gone through the roof. The fact that Faye got in at the right time before the franchise boomed is luck.

The other point is that Faye's success is still built upon the exploitive employment practices of the fast food industry. The fact that her labour was exploited at some point doesn't make her exploitation of labour any more palatable.


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
rural - Francesca
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posted 16 January 2008 12:05 PM      Profile for rural - Francesca   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I do get it. I really do.

My concern is that we should then view every CEO in the same light.

Did the CEO of our hospital corporation get ahead on the backs of the nurses that bore the brunt of hospital restructuring? Possibly. But does that mean that we don't celebrate the fact that the CEO of our hospital is a woman?

Are we holding women to a standard that exceeds the standard for men?

We have a Tim's owner that does nothing in the region, won't partner, wont' donate, nothing. so in comparison....

Is my own volunteer board of directors irresponsible because I work 60 hour weeks, never take a lunch or coffee break and therefore our success is based on exploitation of me?

(edited because "should" and "could" are two different words)

[ 16 January 2008: Message edited by: rural - Francesca ]


From: the backyard | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
torontoprofessor
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posted 16 January 2008 12:07 PM      Profile for torontoprofessor     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Catchfire:
In Montreal the two best cafes, bar none, are Cafe Olympico in Mile End and Cafe Italia in Little Italy.

Hey, I have been to Cafe Olympico. Nice place with good coffee. One very nice thing they have is ice made from coffee (rather than from plain water) for their iced coffee. This way, the coffee doesn't get diluted as the ice melts.

[ 16 January 2008: Message edited by: torontoprofessor ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 16 January 2008 01:21 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Do they still make capaino's with instant coffee? that was the standard for Scotland and England when I lived there in the 90's

I am despondent to say that this abominable practice is still carried out by the natives. "White or black coffee?" What? Oh my poor unspeakable nerves.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 16 January 2008 03:12 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was trying to remember the coffee I frequented when I lived in northern Ontario - it was Country Style. Their coffee wasn't great, but it was better than Tim's bitter brew.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
bliter
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posted 16 January 2008 04:49 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll sit and drink with the common people. I don't want to learn a whole new language to get a cup of coffee. Am sticking with my MacDonald's brew.
From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged

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