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While you get the convenience of 4 periods a year, you are also more likely to have spotting and breakthrough bleeding (which varies from slight spotting to a flow much like a regular period) than with a monthly birth control pill. This is common and should decrease over time. View additional important safety information.

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I cannot stand pill culture. I can understand the desire for some women who have suffered from irregular periods for most of their lives, but more and more we are relying on pills to fix problems that are not really problems. The monthly period is natural. So is the common cold, the migraine, etc. When you rely on pills you weaken your body's natural ability to adapt, you become dependent. A good analogy would be anti-bacterial soap, it's counterproductive. I have never taken a tylenol in my life. Nor have I taken xenadrine, ritalin or prozac.

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You do realize that by 'pill' they mean birth control pill, right? Like, something that is quite important to many women to stop unwanted pregnancies.

Personally, I'm not a fan of pumping my body full of hormones and I never plan on using a contraceptive that does this again. Regardless, I don't see how this is any different than Depo Provera or women going straight from one pack of pills to the next without a break. There are already products out there that reduce the frequency of periods, or eliminate them altogether for as long as you're on them.

Migraine is natural? Suppose so, but it is a painful and debilitating condition. If you break a leg, you won't get it set?

You have managed to insult not only women, but any person who might need an analgesic or anti-depressive medication. Yes, all of these things may be misused by a medical establishment that finds it easier to prescribe pills than get at the root of problems, but they can be necessary within the context of treatment.

Shut the fuck up about things you obviously know nothing about.

About this pill: I have heard medical thinkers speculate that cutting down the number of periods that women have might be closer to the more "natural" way of things -- ie, the average woman used to bear numbers of children, and she would not be menstruating for that many multiples of nine months.

That's pure speculation, of course, and it is worth remembering that many of those women died relatively younger after bearing many children.

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About this pill: I have heard medical thinkers speculate that cutting down the number of periods that women have might be closer to the more "natural" way of things -- ie, the average woman used to bear numbers of children, and she would not be menstruating for that many multiples of nine months.

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There is evidence that suggests a cancer connection. I personally would choose not to because of those risks but there are definitely those who believe that menstrual suppression doesn't carry risks.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Hailey ]

Edited to add: I found at least one link...

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: shaolin ]

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The birth control pill has now been shown to be an active PARTNER to the Human Papillomavirus (HPV) in causing cervical cancer, which presently kills more than 6,000 women each year - man of them young women. Non-stop use of the Pill will put more women at risk for this cancer.

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Hmmmn. I wonder how that could be shown. I mean, HPV is transmitted through heterosexual activity. A woman on any contraceptive is likely to be sexually active, so there would be a strong coincidence factor, but I have been taught to call coincidence coincidence.

1. Depo Provara: It has been shown to be dangerous, I believe due to the level of projesterone. I get very confused with all the terminology, but I was just at a women's sexual health conference and everyone was talking bad abour it. As well, the soon-to-be women's health clinic in Manitoba will, out of choice, NOT be providing Depo as a form of birth control. There is the possibility of many many very negative side effects and there are no or inconclusive studies on the long term effects.

2. Suppressing menstruation: As a young womyn, one who was on the pill and may go back. Suppressing menstruation scares the living day lights out of me.
First, examine why we even want to: the CBC show last night (while I was quite disappointed with it) did have a womyn talking about the culture of the "monthly curse". Suppressing menstruation places a negative tone on a natural and positive aspect of being a womyn. We only supress things that are bad, let's suppress menstruation, menstruation is bad.

Second, the "long term" studies for Seasonale, were two years. There are no long term studies on these pills, it was said point blank on the CBC show by the promoters of the pill.

Third, the question of 'maybe less periods is more natural': I believe that this argument (which was made on the CBC show) is dangerous as it suggests that womyn were meant to have multiple children and that this is healthier for our bodies. No one thought that having multiple periods was dangerous (even though we've been having small families for some time now) until the release of Seasonale. This is a new argument, in my opinion, derived from these promoters (and the religious right I might add). I know I don't have any scientific backing against this whole "less periods are natural" but i find the entire clause absurd: less periods is natural, you are having more periods, i have a pill that makes less periods, voila! Now you can be more natural!?!?!?!

What ALL Canadian women should know is that cervical cancer, which is indeed caused by a virus, is 100 per cent curable if caught early. You, as a Canadian woman, have the right to a free Pap smear annually (don't let them take that away!), which will detect pre-cancerous changes in the cervix. At that point, treatment is simple and sure.

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Do not wait. Do not skip your annual Pap test if you are sexually active.

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I agree with you that any such speculation may well be ideologically motivated, at least some of the time.

And I agree that no one has ever proved that it is good for women to have many children. C19 stats would suggest otherwise.

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Originally posted by shaolin:

Excuse the ignorance, but do you mean 'sexually active' in a penis-in-vagina sort of way, or any way at all?

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No one thought that having multiple periods was dangerous (even though we've been having small families for some time now) until the release of Seasonale. This is a new argument, in my opinion, derived from these promoters (and the religious right I might add). I know I don't have any scientific backing against this whole "less periods are natural" but i find the entire clause absurd: less periods is natural, you are having more periods, i have a pill that makes less periods, voila! Now you can be more natural!?!?!?!

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Yes. Sorry. Thoughtless of me. I meant in a penis-in-vagina sort of way.

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That is, I just know that it is supposed to be a heterosexual STD, so I am assuming that men and women pass it on to each other, through heterosexual chains.

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Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
Seasonale is a pill that promises to reduce periods to 4 a year:

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Originally posted by fern hill:
Sheesh, skdadl, you're not getting the point. Sex for purposes other than procreation is BAD. If you're taking birth control pills, you are obviously having sex for purposes other than procreation. Thus you're BAD.

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What ALL Canadian women should know is that cervical cancer, which is indeed caused by a virus, is 100 per cent curable if caught early. You, as a Canadian woman, have the right to a free Pap smear annually (don't let them take that away!), which will detect pre-cancerous changes in the cervix. At that point, treatment is simple and sure.

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Alright, so I'm looking it up instead of essay writing. From what I can tell,

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The only way to prevent HPV infection is to avoid direct contact with the virus, which is transmitted by skin-to-skin contact. If warts are visible in the genital area, sexual contact should be avoided until the warts are treated. Using a latex condom during sexual intercourse may provide some protection.

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Of course, since it is often without symptoms, you can't actually tell if your partner is infected or anything like that. But it seems to me, as long as you're having vaginal sex with condom, your chances of being infected would be significantly reduced?

Women's health, imho, has not been given the level of funding and research that is required in order to resolve many outstanding questions/issues.

If I, personally, was wanting to use artificial birth control and evaluating the birth control pill exclusively from the perspective of cancer risks I wouldn't be disuaded from using the pill. I wouldn't however use it without creating a break.

And you will find different research and you will find different recommendations around this.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Hailey ]

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Suppressing menstruation scares the living day lights out of me.
First, examine why we even want to: the CBC show last night (while I was quite disappointed with it) did have a womyn talking about the culture of the "monthly curse". Suppressing menstruation places a negative tone on a natural and positive aspect of being a womyn. We only supress things that are bad, let's suppress menstruation, menstruation is bad.

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Er, maybe some other women enjoy bleeding for 5 days a month, but I'm not a big fan of it. While it may be a natural aspect of being a woman, the experience itself is not necessarily positive as a result of that.

Natural isn't synonymous with good or healthy, and as was pointed out, with advances in nutrition and birth control, decreasing maternal mortality, and possibly due to hormones in our food, what is natural now (menarche at an ever earlier age, ever increasing number of periods over a woman's lifetime) isn't the same as what was natural 50 or 100 or 1000 years ago.

My periods are quite problem free - I had some cramping when they first began, but that stopped by age 15. Now, its just a convenience thing - I find them tiresome. I'm on the pill. When I want to, maybe every 2 months, I just start a new pack instead of taking a 7 day break. And since my pills are paid for by my medical plan, while my tampons aren't, its cheaper as well.

However, I have friends with severe problems. Anemia that is exacerbated by long, heavy periods. Very bad cramping. Nausea, light sensitivities, emotional volatility in the pre-menstrual period (though in more than one case, it was less severe than the emotional swings associated with her first few months on the pill).

In any case, the experience of menstruation is not necessarily positive, and I don't think women who don't enjoy it are any less in touch with their feminine selves than someone who revels in their cycles.

I don't think we should go back to the days of buying sanitary napkins in plain brown bags from the pharmacist (which my mom always laughed about - she said that was the only thing they gave out in such a manner, so EVERYONE KNEW what you were buying as a result of attempting to make it so discreet) - its a fact of life, for much of women's lives. It isn't dirty, we aren't ritually unclean, and it is not a shameful act.

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However, I have friends with severe problems. Anemia that is exacerbated by long, heavy periods. Very bad cramping. Nausea, light sensitivities, emotional volatility in the pre-menstrual period (though in more than one case, it was less severe than the emotional swings associated with her first few months on the pill).

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I get many of these bad side effects from my period. I would not be able to function for 2-5 days per month without using pain killers. That's not particularly natural either so the 'it's natural' arguement is not enough for me to say I wouldn't take this or Depo. It's the other considerations mentioned in this thread that would make me think twice.

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I don't think we should go back to the days of buying sanitary napkins in plain brown bags from the pharmacist

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In any case, the experience of menstruation is not necessarily positive, and I don't think women who don't enjoy it are any less in touch with their feminine selves than someone who revels in their cycles.

I don't think we should go back to the days of buying sanitary napkins in plain brown bags from the pharmacist (which my mom always laughed about - she said that was the only thing they gave out in such a manner, so EVERYONE KNEW what you were buying as a result of attempting to make it so discreet) - its a fact of life, for much of women's lives. It isn't dirty, we aren't ritually unclean, and it is not a shameful act.

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I totally agree, swirrlygrrl. I loved not getting my period when I was on Depo, and especially missing out on the cramps!

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Originally posted by skdadl:
PS:
You, as a Canadian woman, have the right to a free Pap smear annually (don't let them take that away!),

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Do not skip your annual Pap test if you are sexually active.

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Most of my doctors (I've had few due to moving) in Canada and the UK are saying every two years for the pap now, unless there's been a negative result previously, in which case it should be annual.

Re: menstrual suppression: I'm surprised no one yet has mentioned the psychological aspects of menstruation. That's the main reason I would never suppress it. Getting that period every month tells me I'm not pregnant. If for some reason my birth control failed, I'd want to know ASAP, so not having periods would make me very anxious most of the time.

ETA: Swrrlygrrl, some pharmacies still put pads and tampons in brown paper bags inside of the regular plastic bags. The Rexall in the Bentall Centre in Vancouver did that only three years ago when I worked near there. My cubicle mate and I laughed at them a lot!

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: kurichina ]

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I should just suck it up and get a goddamn pap. I hate the things and each time I've had one I swear off ever having one again. I'm making excuses.

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shaolin, I know, I know, I know. From the bottom of my heart, I remember feeling exactly as you do. I don't discount that reaction at all.

To me, there are serious problems with the way that doctors approach women's -- especially young women's -- experience of gynecological examinations. It's not at all hard to understand why many women fear them, and some women become seriously stressed and depressed at the thought of being so medicalized. We have to do something about that syndrome.

I don't underestimate the power or importance of those feelings, and I try not to give anyone bootstraps advice.

All the same: I did watch someone die of a curable disease, and it was very very hard to accept that, y'know?

And then I've had some medical adventures of my own since. Sometimes I feel quite hardened to the process of climbing up on that stupid stainless steel table and opening up to anything. Other times, it still depresses me to treat myself that way and to be treated that way, so objectified.

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Originally posted by BleedingHeart:

If you can find a family doctor who still knows how to do them.

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Well, I now have an oncologist who does, BH.

I have some concerns about interfering with mother nature however.

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Getting that period every month tells me I'm not pregnant.

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The second-last doctor who did a Pap for me was aggressive enough to make me bleed, and asked several hostile questions about my sex life.

Especially frightening as she works at a university medical centre, where I'm sure a lot of young women get their first Pap done.

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Those experiences make people not want to go back and heighten everyone's risks because they then avoid treatment.

Don't let that disuade you please. I buried a sister to a different type of cancer but one that she would have never predicted at that age. It can happen to anyone.

(Sorry, always have to get a plug in for diva cups and keepers. By the way, someday when I have to replace my keeper, I'll be getting the Diva Cup since it's even better - it's made of silicone, I believe, so a) it's hypoallergenic for people with latex allergies, and b) you can boil them to sterilize them. I boil the keeper a bit, even though you're not supposed to, so I figure it will probably degrade faster than it's supposed to. But it's still holding up fine, after three years.)

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Originally posted by lagatta:
Shut the fuck up about things you obviously know nothing about.

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Thanks, lagatta, for saying what I was thinking.

Many years ago, I was having a bad bout of bowel disease. My doctor prescribed a huge amount of corticosteroid to be taken over a few weeks.

I started taking on water, I had terrible trouble with sleep, I was really really cranky.

My female colleagues named me "Sister Pax" for being the first man they knew who came close to experientially understand some part of life as a woman.

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Originally posted by dee:
I never knew that was an issue. Every doctor I've seen has done them without any problem.

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Me too...but now I'm starting to worry. My doctor mostly does psychotherapy in his practice, but keeps a minority of patients for whom he is a general practitioner (I'm one of the minority).

I haven't gone back yet, I'm too scared.

Why is that? If there is something wrong with me, I want to fix it. But going to the gyno is scary in a way that I can't describe, but some of you probably know what I mean. It doesn't help that a few years ago, I went to my mum's doctor because I thought I was pregnant and the doctor harangued me up and down for having sex and made me feel about this big. She didn't address other issues, like how I was feeling and where I could go for counselling or help if I needed it. She just yelled at me.

Edited to add:

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I wonder how many women have already figured this out on their own and are not taking the 7 placebo pills in their pack.

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I'd bet a lot. I knew girls who did this in their teens and I hear lots of women talking about using the pill to ensure they won't have their period of their wedding or honeymoon.

I have a question about this though. Would skipping your period in this way increase your risk of endometriosis?

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: dee ]

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I wonder how many women have already figured this out on their own and are not taking the 7 placebo pills in their pack.

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The second-last doctor who did a Pap for me was aggressive enough to make me bleed, and asked several hostile questions about my sex life.

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What I DO have a problem with is the way of marketing of products like this and the broader implcations involved in it all. Skipping periods and making choices about your body is one thing. But a big pharmaceutical company pushing a product to do it because "periods are gross and/or messy and/or inconvenient" and best covered up or eliminated is another thing. It reminds me of a tampon ad I saw in a public washroom-- it mentioned how it was so small and discreet that it could fit in your palm while leaving for the washroom, and "no one will have to know you're on your period". The idea that periods are dirty and shameful is being subtlely enforced by these products.

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I'm always surprised to hear people's horror stories about paps, especially when it comes to female doctors. I would have thought they'd have a bit more empathy. I guess I've been very lucky. I remember being extremely nervous when I went for my first one but the doctor who did it put me right at ease. The procedure was less stressful than having blood taken.

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The only relatively painless experiences I have had with gynecological exams have been with male doctors. I don't know how to explain it, but it's almost like they've been more careful as they don't have these bits themselves. Or at least the somewhat 'englightened' one I have back home. Much unlike my sister's doctor who told her she'd have to go and see someone else to get the morning after pill - "I'm not judging you, I just don't believe it's right."

To tell you the truth, it isn't the actual pap smear that bothers me so much but the pelvic exam - I think I've had three and they've all been incredibly painful and bordering on feeling violating.

Edited to add:

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(Sorry, always have to get a plug in for diva cups and keepers. By the way, someday when I have to replace my keeper, I'll be getting the Diva Cup since it's even better - it's made of silicone, I believe, so a) it's hypoallergenic for people with latex allergies, and b) you can boil them to sterilize them. I boil the keeper a bit, even though you're not supposed to, so I figure it will probably degrade faster than it's supposed to. But it's still holding up fine, after three years.)

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I'm going to give my plug for my reusable pads again. There's something I prefer about the blood flowing out of my body, instead of being trapped inside. I suppose the keeper isn't as bad as tampons that suck up your body's natural excretions along with the blood, but I'm still quite adverse to it.

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: shaolin ]

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Originally posted by Nikita:
I hated the pill. I was on it from January to April and I put on 25 pounds. I am still trying to get rid of that extra weight. The pharmacist told me I was one of the (unlucky) minority of women who put on weight. Grrrrrrrrrrreat.

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Originally posted by Nikita:
Well this thread was timely. I had a PAP in February and was told to go back in July because of some "irregular" cells. I didn't go to the gyno that time, I went to a sexual health clinic.

I haven't gone back yet, I'm too scared.

Why is that? If there is something wrong with me, I want to fix it. But going to the gyno is scary in a way that I can't describe, but some of you probably know what I mean. It doesn't help that a few years ago, I went to my mum's doctor because I thought I was pregnant and the doctor harangued me up and down for having sex and made me feel about this big. She didn't address other issues, like how I was feeling and where I could go for counselling or help if I needed it. She just yelled at me.

Now I am psyched out about it. Damn it

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Nikita, would it help you if some of us came here and talked you through a return visit?

Or we could do it privately, by email?

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Was this at Carleton?

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Yup - similar poking and prodding, ignoring visible flinching and audible gasps. Female doc though.

Quite a shock to me, as at U of A, all of the docs in health services were excellent about dealing with my sexual health issues openly and respectfully. As all docs should, but ESPECIALLY in a setting with lots of young women who might need encouragement to seek sexual health info, testing and treatment.

At Carleton, several docs have questioned me on why I feel the need to get STI testing done regularly if I'm using condoms, and there was the horrible experience and judgemental looks and attitude. I finally found a doc I like there though (as I graduate), and I've been telling all my friends to use her. She's great!

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Nikita, would it help you if some of us came here and talked you through a return visit?

Or we could do it privately, by email?

I am always available to do that.

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I finally found a doc I like there though (as I graduate), and I've been telling all my friends to use her. She's great!

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Of course, they say that afterwards. Going in, everyone feels real scared. Of course. That's why we're here. It's also why doctors should be trained differently, IMHO.

I'm on my way to class right now but if anyone would be open to sharing a funny gyno story, or words of encouragement I would really love to hear it!

Ok must run, now I'm going to be late!

(edit for spelling)

(edited again b/c I was in a hurry before!)

[ 10 August 2005: Message edited by: Nikita ]

Dr. Janet Chow

She's really thorough, and respectful (I don't allow doctors to do breast exams, for personal reasons, and once had a ten minute argument with a doctor when I told her that; Dr. Chow accepted it, pointed out a few things about the procedure, then moved on), and a bit reserved (which I like - I really don't want to have a upbeat conversation while my legs are in the air...just my preference). I go to her for my other medical stuff too, not just gynacological. I find her professional, but not cold.

A guy. A guy who had been diagnosed, just a couple of years before, with a bowel disease.

I knew something was kind of not right with me. And as it turned out, my life really did depend on my going for that exam. But I was next to paralysed.

And then this guy, husband of a friend, over lunch one day ran through a moment-by-moment narration of the day he'd had a whole series of tests and exams that were meant to diagnosis his illness through a process of elimination (you should forgive the pun).

At some point, the power in one of the examining rooms failed. He just happened to have some tube or other up his rear right then. The technicians said to him, "You're going to have to get up and run into a room down the hall. Please clutch your buttocks together hard, and then run with us. We'll be carrying the tubes."

He was wearing one of those hospital gowns at the time, of course, so there he was, bare bum clutched hard, running down a (pretty public) hall with technicians and tubes in hot pursuit.

Yes I did see women and I did do pap smears.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
BleedingHeart, may I ask: do you do family practice? And do women come to you?
(I mean this in an entirely friendly way. I really value your contributions here, BH. )

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I had sort of a similar gown-flapping-in-the-wind experience when I was 13. I was in the hospital to get my tonsils out and as luck would have it I was also having my period. The nurse wouldn't let me wear my own panties but gave me this weird meshy thing to wear and a pad (no tampons allowed I guess).

After the surgery, they wanted me to walk around a bit to wake up after the anaesthesia. I was pretty out of it still, but followed the nurse's instructions and trudged the hallway up and down with my IV stand. After about 15 minutes I heard someone screeching my name and turned around to see my mum running toward me. I had no idea what was going on so I went back to bed while she yelled at the nurses.

Exiled to Ontario and away from my kind physician, I found another doctor who I like almost as much. She introduced me to the mini pill (progestrin only) which I hated, and didn't squawk when I fought to get back on a tri phasic.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
My own concern with this idea is that it's being promoted not so much by doctors but by a pharmaceutical company that has much to gain by marketing this product, and that this company intends to market this product without consideration of the health and psychological effects.

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Nikita, I am a great coward about these things too, or at least I always am in anticipation. The one time that a medical emergency simply overtook me, though, and I found myself in the middle of things before I had a chance to think, I was utterly shameless.

Get sick enough, and you really don't care much who sees what. Well -- ok, that's an exaggeration. I did care about how I was being treated -- I cared that one of the nurses, especially, was being pretty bitchy to me, and I
was able to care about that even when I was pretty stoned.

But -- put the catheter in? Take the catheter out? Sure. Go ahead.