Is it really doctors, accountants, scientists, engineers and actuaries who scorn miners, construction workers and plumbers?

who do you suppose is dividing unions?

Your thread title has a versus in it. Is an adversarial relationship between professions taught in university and those taught in technical college inherent? Is it real?

[ 27 June 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

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Originally posted by Ward:
Does the specialized education and etherial behavior of the White collar worker warrent the scorn of the calorie burning grimey Blue collar.
Or does it just divide unions?

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Originally posted by Ward:
Just hearing things over the few years about how kids today are streering away from blue collar career paths. Parents and commentators and statitisians suggesting university grads have better higher paying prospects. (which may not be true.)

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I know where I come from this isn't really the case at all, many people in construction and the trades seem to rake in far more cash than university graduates the same age. Though this is of course liable to change should the construction industry pole axe itself.

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Originally posted by munroe:
In answer to your original question, Ward, it divides. As much as employers seek to create the divisions, the fundamental class relationship between those who own and manage and those who work remains. The relationship of a college instructor to the administration has much in common with the tradesperson on a construction site and his or her relationship with the superintendant.

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Originally posted by 500_Apples:
who do you suppose is dividing unions?

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Blaming specific instances of that problem exclusively on "capitalists" or ""management" probably just exacerbates the problem. We are all guilty of discriminatory behaviour and elitism. Ultimately we will solve the larger problem when we gain the necessary insight and develop non-confrontational ways to solve our problems.

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Originally posted by Stargazer:

Aw I see. I might as well throw a large chunk of my education out with this answer - it's an individual thing. Society (we, the people) do not live in a vacuum. We live in a larger system, a macrocosm. That macro system is called Capitalism. You don't need to be a Marxist to understand how Capitalism pits people against people. There is not a chance that your answer would solve the larger problem. The system itself needs to change, then and only then will the attitudes, motivations and beliefs of individuals change.

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Look at the oil boom in Alberta - ....

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I work in human resources here. Last year, I met a huge number of truck drivers (with not one little bit of post secondary education) who made better than 140K.

I worked for a grade ten dropout, who built up a hauling firm from two trucks to twenty and sold out when the income trusts were hot...he now has $19 million.

And still the teachers at my kids school look down on the "blue collar" and tell my sons that without a university degree they are doomed to make minimum wage! (Which may be true?)

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Originally posted by munroe:
I have always found it useful in interchanges of this sort to remember a poster my students gave me way back in the early 1980s. It read "class conscious is knowing which side of the fence you're on; class analysis is knowing who is there with you".

It ain't about the colour of your shirt.

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So true. It's not about the colour of your shirt. The fundamental divide is between capitalist and worker. The capitalists control the means of production, and make a profit from the sale of the goods produced by the means of production which they own. The workers provide their labour to those who control the means of production in exchange for a wage.

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Originally posted by Boom Boom:
I know some construction contractors who earn more than a nurse or teacher. Look at the oil boom in Alberta - some of those blue collar workers workers on some of the dirtiest jobs are likely making much more than white collar workers in the Ottawa civil service bureaucracy.

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True, there has not been the level of attack on the wages on manual labourers and tradespeople as there has been with clerical and office work, and manufacturing. Certain types of jobs in the trades can't be exported to offshorte low wage markets because the work is tied to the location. Jobs in the construction industry have to be located where the buildings are being built. Maintenance jobs have to be located at the buildings that need maintaining. Mechanics have to work where the cars, trucks and vans need to be repaired. Jobs in the BC and Alberta oil fields have to be located where the oilfields are.

However, I doubt that these well paying manual labour and trades jobs can be sustained forever. The manual labour and trades sectors of the economy are not immune from the drive of the cpitalists to supress workers wages. It's just that because of the location specific nature of the work, it takes the capitalists longer to supress wages in manual labour and the trades.

[ 05 July 2007: Message edited by: Left Turn ]