babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Bush Lap Dog Booted From Ecuador

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Bush Lap Dog Booted From Ecuador
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 24 April 2005 08:27 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ousted Ecuadorean Leader Heads for Brazil

quote:

By MONTE HAYES
The Associated Press
Sunday, April 24, 2005; 6:41 AM

QUITO, Ecuador - Ousted Ecuadorean President Lucio Gutierrez left the Brazilian ambassador's residence early Sunday, four days after he sought refuge there, and was headed to an airport to be flown to asylum in Brazil, police said. ...

(...And what were Gutierrez' qualifications to lead a nation ?)

Gutierrez, a 48-year-old cashiered army colonel elected in 2002, has said the congressional vote that removed him from office violated the constitution.


Washington Post


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 24 April 2005 12:54 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The thread title is interesting. When Gutierrez came into power, some Rabblers hailed him as a representative of the streets, and the indigenous poor.

Now, he is alleged to be an IMF stooge.

Generally, Ecuadorean politics is chaotic, and almost no one has the luxury of moral and political consistency.

It is also true that Ecuadorean politics often has a substratum not reported in the regular media. For example, before commenting on the menaing of this semi-coup, I would want to know about Gutierrez stand on American military bases in Ecuador. The Americans need one to help in the fight against Colombian guerillas, who operate just on the other side of the border from Ecuador.

What is the new President's view of that base? Does he think it should be expanded? Removed?

And what was Gutierrez doing about it?


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 24 April 2005 12:58 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have been watching this news in puzzlement, also convinced that we are just not hearing enough here to be able to judge what is going on.

Can someone remind me of the title of the great Costa Gavras film about Ecuador?

Edited to say: Ah. I have the wrong country. I was thinking of Costa Gavras on Uruguay -- State of Siege.

[ 24 April 2005: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 24 April 2005 07:16 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gutierrez is no socialist. He's a lap dog for Washington, a stooge of the right wing.

[ 24 April 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 24 April 2005 08:00 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We chatted a bit about Ecuador over here.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 24 April 2005 10:08 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Gutierrez is no socialist. He's a lap dog for Washington, a stooge of the right wing.

You forgot to use the term "capitalist running-dog".

Despite your authoritative pronouncement, I do recall people thinking Lucio might be a leader like Lula or Chavez.

I never thought so, actually, because he seemed uncertain about how to effect the changes he claimed to desire. And in Latin America, he who hesitates is lost.

But that does not mean that thinking in black and white makes sense. There is a lot more nuance to the situation than the words "lap dog" would suggest. And sometimes Latin Americans who are not socialists, but strong nationalists, can do effective work on behalf of their peoples.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Burns
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7037

posted 24 April 2005 10:42 PM      Profile for Burns   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lucio was in the streets with indigenous protesters when the previous President was ousted. Asked to fire on the crowd he refused and became, depending on who you talked to a People's Hero or a coup leader.

He ran for office on a People's Power ticket and won broad support from the indigenous poor who now hate him. Many, including me, thought he'd be another Chavez. Unfortunately, his first act of office was signing a crippling IMF deal.

Unfortunately, he lacked the intestinal fortitude of a Kirchener or a Chavez to stare down the suits. And, maybe fortunately, he lacked the political skills of a Lula to bridge (or paper over) the gap between what the poor need and the suits want.

I have to say it's inspiring to see the poor of Bolivia and Ecuador toss out their leaders when they fail them. But I'd be happier if they just elected a good leader in the first place.


From: ... is everything. Location! Location! Location! | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
mamitalinda
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5510

posted 25 April 2005 12:58 AM      Profile for mamitalinda   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Burns:
I have to say it's inspiring to see the poor of Bolivia and Ecuador toss out their leaders when they fail them. But I'd be happier if they just elected a good leader in the first place.

You got that right. I was in Ecuador at the time of the elections, and it was quite surprising to everyone that he was elected - not so much by the second ballot, but that he did well enough on the first one to move on to the second ballot.

He came and spoke at the University I was attending, and even then displayed signs of being a hypocrite. At that point he was touting himself as a leftist saviour of the people, publically wearing his Army Colonel uniform to remind everyone that together with the Indigenous movement he had ousted the previous government. This although he had been thrown out of the army. An audience member asked him if it was appropriate to wear his military uniform to run for political office when actual members of the military are not allowed to vote, never mind run in political elections, and it is supposed to be considered a national symbol. He said that it would be inappropriate to do such a thing and certainly, he had no intention of running using his uniform. Which later proved to be an out and out lie. I had also noticed his jeep parked out front with a Lucio bumper sticker depicting him in his uniform, and this months before the actual election.

So on the second ballot people had a choice between the supposed leftist revolutionary and the Quaker oatmeal/banana baron who owns half the country and was bribing left right and centre. And in Ecuador, voting is mandatory. (One big reason I never wanted to become a citizen). So people voted for Lucio, even though on the first ballot there was a REAL leftist with half a brain, Leon Roldos.

And... after the election Lucio showed his true colours- as someone has stated, Bush's lapdog. Within the first week he had changed into a suit and had set up meetings with the IMF and the World Bank. He split with Pachakutik, the indigenous party who had brought him to power, he threw out the Electoral Tribunal and the Supreme Court and made alliances with the PRE (Populist party). All this he accomplished with bribes and patronage. He allowed the American military base at Manta even though he promised to get the base closed down during the pre-election period.
Some of the structural changes (throwing out the Electoral Tribunal and Supreme Court) indicated he was moving toward dictatorship, but yes, I would have been much happier if they had never elected "Lucio Mi Coronel" to begin with.


From: Babblers On Strike! | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 25 April 2005 01:50 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks. That was very relevant and informative.

I'd heard he did a U-turn on the military base, running against it then agreeing to it. But I wasn't sure if he was a basically good but not strong person knuckling under or a real sellout. This sounds rather like the latter.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 25 April 2005 01:57 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:

But that does not mean that thinking in black and white makes sense. There is a lot more nuance to the situation than the words "lap dog" would suggest. And sometimes Latin Americans who are not socialists, but strong nationalists, can do effective work on behalf of their peoples.


I think it must be very difficult for politicians not to be lap dogs of American corporate interests in Latin America. The people there know when leaders have sold out to Bechtel, Suez or American fruit and oil companies and rich land owners. There are few nuances to living in abject poverty.

Protests, like
this one over the attempted assassination of indigenous leader, Leonidas Iza, after visiting Cuba is one of the many reasons Ecuador's people had no faith in the very US-friendly Gutierrez. Operation Condor wasn't that long ago. The people there have long memories of the political killings.

[ 25 April 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca