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Fidel Castro, who took control of Cuba in 1959, rebuffed repeated U.S. attempts to oust him and survived communism's demise almost everywhere else, temporarily relinquished his presidential powers to his brother Raul on Monday night because of surgery.

The Cuban President said he had suffered gastrointestinal bleeding, apparently due to stress from recent public appearances in Argentina and Cuba, according to a letter read live on television by his secretary, Carlos Valenciaga.

"The operation obligates me to undertake several weeks of rest," said the letter. Extreme stress "had provoked in me a sharp intestinal crisis with sustained bleeding that obligated me to undergo a complicated surgical procedure."

Castro said he was temporarily relinquishing the presidency to his younger brother and successor Raul, the Defence Minister, but said the move was of "a provisional character." There was no immediate appearance or statement by Raul Castro.
Related to this article
Cuban President Fidel Castro gives a speech in May 14, 2004, in Havana. Jorge Rey/Getty Images

It was the first time in his decades-long tenure that Castro has given up power, though he has been sidelined briefly in the recent past with occasional health problems.

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Originally posted by a lonely worker:
Let's hope for a speedy recovery because our world needs his courage and idealism now more than ever.

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Despite the release in 2004 of fourteen of the seventy-five political dissidents, independent journalists, and human rights advocates prosecuted in April 2003, human rights conditions in Cuba have not improved. The Cuban government systematically denies its citizens basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, movement, and a fair trial. It restricts nearly all avenues of political dissent, and uses police warnings, surveillance, short term-detentions, house arrests, travel restrictions, criminal prosecutions, and politically-motivated dismissals from employment as methods of enforcing political conformity.

Human rights monitoring is not recognized as a legitimate activity, but rather is stigmatized as a betrayal of Cuban sovereignty. No local human rights groups enjoy legal status. Instead, human rights defenders face systematic harassment, with the government placing heavy burdens on their ability to monitor human rights conditions. Nor are international human rights groups such as Human Rights Watch allowed to send fact-finding missions to Cuba

Political prisoners who denounce poor conditions of imprisonment or who otherwise fail to observe prison rules are frequently punished by long periods in punitive isolation cells, restrictions on visits, or denial of medical treatment.

There is only one official labor union in Cuba, the Worker’s Central of Cuba (Central de Trabajadores de Cuba, CTC). Independent labor unions are denied formal status and their members are harassed.

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He is and will be, regardless of what the researchers scribbling away at Human Rights Watch say, be seen by millions as a hero because he managed to vanquish illiteracy, create a universal health care system and maintain national independence for forty-some years. People who point to Cuba's human rights record have a point - but they neglect (deliberately) to compare where Cuba is with where Cuba would be had Batista remained. The countries in the region that followed the "democratic" model have a far more dire human rights situation - Haiti, is a prominent example.

Castro is a remarkable man who initially liberated Cuba from a very corrupt regime. Even the United States applauded him, in the beginning.

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Originally posted by Proaxiom:
But he could have brought real freedom to Cuba. He could have formed a government that respected rights, and maybe even had its leaders elected. His failure to even attempt this is a pretty massive shortcoming.

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Throughout the Cold War the US (via the CIA) saw any concession to democratic norms as a weakness to be exploited. In Chile, Salvador Allende's socialist coalition encouraged free trade unions so the CIA funded "unions" to force strikes and cripple the economy. In Colombia, when guerillas laid down their arms to participate in "free and fair" elections virtually every candidate was murdered by the government and US-backed paramilataries. When the Sandinistas of Nicaragua tried to embrace democracy the US stepped up aid to the Contras to convince the public that peace would only come when the Sandinistas were out of office.

The progressive majority who remained on the island will remain that when those scumbags go back.

We will need to offer our solidarity to the people of Cuba as they fight against the rich, light skinned Floridians(those who were never REALLY Cuban to start with)who want to come back home and re-steal the wealth Fidel returned to the people.

First: Cuba is a very controlled society, and people don't like that much. Cuba is a very fair society and people like that a lot. Unless Raul manages to successfully break the fairness basis as part of trying to hang on to power (and it's not obvious to me how he could do that) just about everybody on the island will resist the kind of change that the US will try to impose.

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Originally posted by Sven:

His "courage and idealism"??? Human Rights Watch has a slightly different opinion of the dictator.

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Sven, have you ever made a comment on any of the
36 US-backed dictators of the last century ?. If not, why not ?.

The biggest threat to human rights on the island of Cuba are the U.S. torture gulags at Guantanamo.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
[QB]Sven, have you ever made a comment on any of the 36 US-backed dictators of the last century ?. If not, why not ?.

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Originally posted by a lonely worker [quoting the Associated Press]:
Castro said he was temporarily relinquishing the presidency to his younger brother and successor Raul, the Defence Minister, but said the move was of "a provisional character."

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And Raul Castro is not just Defence Minister. He is also First Vice-President of Cuba and Second Secretary of the Communist Party. Who better to fill in, while Fidel is incapacitated, for the functions of president, commander of the armed forces and first secretary of the CCP?

The US President does the same thing when he undergoes an operation that will temporarily "take his finger off the button".

In addition, Fidel has delegated his other responsibilities to other very capable people. "Gasp! - other people? You mean there are other people in a position to run Cuba without Fidel or Raul?" Yes, Virginia, it turns out that Cuba is not a one-person or even a two-person operation.

For example, he has delegated his functions in public health and education matters to José Ramón Machado Ventura and Esteban Lazo Hernandez, respectively (two other vice-presidents of state).

Another v-p, Carlos Lage, who is also the Secretary of the Ministerial Council, will manage the national energy revolution and collaborate with other nations in that field.

Cuba has developed a large collective leadership of post-revolutionary cadres who are no less determined to preserve Cuba's revolution than Fidel is. The revolution is too powerful and too successful to be dependent on the life of a single man.

And, in this case, the vast majority of Cubans love and admire Castro. In fact, there is probably no other leader in the world that enjoys the support and love of as many of his or her people as Fidel Castro Ruz.

I think Castro did what he had to do to build a socialist alternative - and I'm hard-pressed to criticize him given his success against tremendous odds. There's a long list of would-be revolutionaries who failed where he succeeded: Allende, Ortega, Aristide.

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Originally posted by otter:
Castro still did an outstanding job with what he had to work with and deserves to be recognized for that.

All the detractions from his accomplishments are little more than whining and sour grapes imo

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How true about how this is spinning, as if it was unusual for a VP to replace a leader in a medical situation.

If anyone has to decide about who will lead Cuba after Castro, I would think the people of Cuba, with their own excellent education system would be more than capable of managing without interference from anyone and their money.

[ 01 August 2006: Message edited by: eau ]

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Originally posted by otter:
And as many have observed before, look to the human rights abuses in your own home country as well as your closest allies before commenting on anyone else's

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Originally posted by Sven:

I'll take that as a non-answer.

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Originally posted by Kenehan:
However, I think the Left in Latin America has better models to follow now - Chavez and Morales being the strongest examples.

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Bolivian President Evo Morales has expressed his solidarity with his Cuban counterpart and friend Fidel Castro, and showed confidence that he will quickly overcome his affliction.

Morales wrote a message that textually reads:

Comrade and brother Fidel,

On behalf of the Government and Bolivian people, we want to extend to you our solidarity and best wishes for a swift recovery.

We are convinced that the strength you have shown along with your exemplary history will help you overcome this condition to continue fighting against imperialism for the construction of the Latin American homeland.

Sincerely, Evo Morales Ayma, Constitutional President of Bolivia.
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President Hugo Chavez, who is visiting Vietnam, wished a speedy recovery to the "good friend, forger of ideals, and dream builder" Cuban President Fidel Castro, who underwent surgery on Monday.

Chavez devoted several minutes of his speech before Vietnam´s Chamber of Commerce in this capital, to highlight the Caribbean Island leader´s stature as politician and revolutionary.

The Venezuelan president said that as soon as he learned about it in the morning, through international television stations, he called Fidel´s office and felt calmed when he was told that he was recovering well, without further complications.

He stressed that "more than a triple friend, Fidel is an infinite friend," referring to the idea of friendship of Sergio Rodriguez, the teacher of the Liberator Simon Bolivar, and historic figure in Venezuela.

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in this case, the vast majority of Cubans love and admire Castro. In fact, there is probably no other leader in the world that enjoys the support and love of as many of his or her people as Fidel Castro Ruz.

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This same sort of thing used to be said about Mao and Enver Hoxha, the Supreme leader of Albania.

When Castro falls, there will be obligatory adulation. Ten years after, the skeletons will come toppling out.

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Originally posted by jeff house:

This same sort of thing used to be said about Mao and Enver Hoxha, the Supreme leader of Albania.

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Jeff, China was a fourth world shithole behind even India in 1949 after the British and American-backed fascists fled the country. Chinese life expectancy was doubled during Mao's time. China's infant mortality was better than what India's rate is today by 1976.

And Albania became a cesspool for organized crime and drug trafficking to Europe after 1989. Some relative of Nazi sympathisizing King Zog is looking to get back on the throne. God help them.

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When Castro falls, there will be obligatory adulation. Ten years after, the skeletons will come toppling out.

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You mean like the one billion or so skeletons which Nobel laureate Amartya Sen attributes to the global experiment in democratic capitalism between the years 1947 and 1979?. Jeff, the skeletons have been out of the closet for decades, and neo-liberal democracy is a colossal failure. Fidel's socialism has been a resounding succcess compared with the body count of glasnost in the former USSR.

Jeff, the Cuban's don't want or need neo-Liberal democracy. And neither do the rest of the shitholes in Latin America suffering under the yolk of banana republican policies in Warshington.

Jeff, the world is still waiting for a war crimes trial in absentia with the doctor and the madman arraigned on charges of crimes against humanity. The fascists can try to stuff the skeletons back in the closet, but the screams are becoming louder and louder.

[ 01 August 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

It is very nice that you are able to determine that Cubans don't need democracy.

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You know, I wouldn't mind a discussion about the pros and cons of Castro's regime. But his fan club hasn't entered the reality ball park yet.

Really, it is the same old stuff. During Stalin's regime, he was a "great leader" too, and any criticism was dismissed as bourgeois propaganda.

Changing the subject to how nasty the bourgeois world is won't change the reality in Cuba. Or the legitimacy of criticizing the Leader.

[ 01 August 2006: Message edited by: jeff house ]

And we can bet that an infinitesimally small number will ever praise the legacies of Papa and Baby Doc, Maxi Martinez - Washington's former Salvadoran connection, or former Guatemalan dictator, General Efrain Rios Mont who is still on the loose and enjoying a full range of freedoms. May their souls never find rest.

And God Bless Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruiz. You have been God's warrior and led the Cuban people well during their darkest hours. Remember Che, Patrice and all of the people's heros.

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It is very nice that you are able to determine that Cubans don't need democracy.

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It is very nice that you are able to determine that Cubans don't need democracy.

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Jeff, in other posts I have commended you and will continue to view your activism for justice to be an asset to our country as you continue to be one of the few people who I feel are actually "walking the walk" for social justice.

When it comes to Cuba, is where I feel that some differences exist.

First off, I am fully committed to the democratic process where the PEOPLE determine their fate not the corporations or the imperialists in more powerful countries. Unfortunately in the Western hemisphere this is a pipe dream as long as Manifest destiny and the Monroe Doctrine exist as law in our fascist neighbour to the south.

Cubans have been the receipients of the longest undeclared war by these imperialists in modern history. Here is just a list of what they've been put through in just the decade of the 90's:

the principal terrorist actions against Cuba during the period 1990-2000

Here are just some examples in a five month period:

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12 April 1997. A bomb exploded in the Melia Cohiba Hotel, in Havana.

30 April 1997. An explosive device was found in the Melia Cohiba Hotel.

12 July 1997. Bombs exploded in the Capri and National hotels.

4 August 1997. Another bomb exploded in the Melia Cohiba Hotel.

11 August 1997. The Miami press published a statement by the Cuban American
National Foundation (CANF) giving unconditional support to the terrorist bomb
attacks on civilian and tourist targets in Cuba. The president of that organization
stated: “We do not consider these to be terrorist acts” and added that any action
against Cuba was legitimate.

22 August 1997. A bomb exploded in the Sol Palmeras Hotel in Varadero.

4 September 1997. Bombs exploded in the Tritón, Chateau Miramar and Copacabana hotels. The explosion in the latter killed Fabio Di Celmo, a young Italian tourist. That same day, another bomb went off in the El Bodeguita del Medio restaurant.

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Please read this entire report and tell me What country would tolerate this and how would any country react if this continued on an almost daily basis against their people? This doesn't even mention the $80 milion a year the US funds create dissent in Cuban society.

Anyone who is a close follower of Cuban politics knows that if a US defined democracy was imposed on the Cuban people the revolution would be over in very short time either through fraud(Mexico), funding insurgency (Guatamala and Nicaragua), Assassination (Panama), a coup (Chile) or outright invasion (Haiti and Grenada to name just two).

Yes Venezuela and Bolivia are exceptions for now, but where would these two nations be if not for the support of the Cuban people and government?

My hope for our hemisphere is to see more Venezuelas and Bolivias making it less necessary to maintain such tight controls over keeping US funded terrorists out of the Cuban state.

The reason so many of us fully support Fidel Castro is because he's the only one in our entire hemisphere who has shown that an alternative to the new feudal order is possible. Obviously Allende, Arbenz, Bishop, Aristide or Torrijos would have made great alternatives but all proved that playing by the rules just added their names to a long list of reasons why neo-liberal imperialism is a cancer that must be purged from our planet before any true peace can occur.

Fidel (faults and all) continues to be a beacon that this is possible. I and many of my Cuban friends hope that the light of this noble revolution for social equality will never be extinguished or replaced by the tacky lights of a McDonald's.

[ 01 August 2006: Message edited by: a lonely worker ]

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
I'm not necessarily a massive fan of Castro but I would like to see democracy here before we start setting standards for other nation. 22% of the electorate voted for Harper, if 22% of Cubans voted for Castro would that make it a democracy.

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Originally posted by Sven:

You have a democracy in Canada!! If Canada doesn't have a democracy, then democracy doesn't exist.

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We have the illusion of democracy in Canada, Sven. Canada is ruled by proxy from Washington where the really big decisions are handed down to our political drones, like the rules for NAFTA, whether or not we can startup and aerospace industry of our own etc. Even the trade dispute tribunal is situated in the states. And there was some fairly nasty stuff heaped on us during the cold war via weak and ineffective leadership in Ottawa, too. We've never had the kind of leadership that stands up to Uncle Sam like Fidel has.

Let's face it, the CIA and Washington have little respect for democratically-elected and popular socialist leaders in Latin America, including one that was removed from power by the CIA just 50 miles from Cuba.

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"Little pigs, little pigs, let me come in." - the Big Bad Ugly Wolf

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[ 02 August 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Castro's record on human right? Reportedly, bad.

Canada gets two webpages of links with respect to Canadian rights issues too at HRW link

The legacy of our treatment of First Nations, Southeast Asians, Ukranians, Italians, etc, surely DOESN'T give us BRAGGING RIGHTS in the Human Rights Department and DOESN'T give us the right to CRITICIZE OTHER COUNTRIES for their alleged abuses.

Fidel isn't perfect, but the USA would depose Fidel and install Gusanos (who are either surviving Baptista supporters or descendents of Baptista supporters who would hand over Cuba to the States AGAIN, if in power).

I think it is hilarious that everyone FREAKS about Cuba, a TINY LITTLE COMMUNIST COUNTRY which makes virtually NO impact on the world, when they IGNORE the repression and cultural GENOCIDE committed by the Communist Chinese on their minorities, PARTICULARLY THE TIBETANS.

ONE MILLION, TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND TIBETANS have died since 1959 and NO ONE SAYS SHIT. Everyone signs up to SELL CHINA THEIR CRAP INSTEAD and OVERLOOKS their ABYSMAL human rights record, that includes (according to some) the actual "execution to order" of prisoners so ORGANS CAN BE HARVESTED FOR TRANSPLANT to those who can afford it.

A sense of perspective is in order, I think.

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You have a democracy in Canada!! If Canada doesn't have a democracy, then democracy doesn't exist.

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[ 02 August 2006: Message edited by: Bobolink ]

How about basing the vote on this.

How many refugees have we seen getting on rickety rafts and boats fleeing Canada, the USA and Western Europe in order to get to Cuba as opposed to how many we have seen risking their lives to flee to Cuba?

You may be right. In other words, if, say, there was an attack on the US, some reprehensible regime might try to close down on civil liberties, habeas corpus, etc.

That's the reason I dislike the Bush administration; they use "security" to justify repression. So, I am not going to say ot's wrong for them, and okay for Fidel.

--------------
Before we get too far astray, though, my post did not seek to say that Fidel was an ogre, or that China doesn't suck. I just wanted to point out that there exists a certain fantasy about Cuba. Without evidence, we have babblers claiming that Fidel is the world's most beloved leader, etc. etc.

Since that claim is made without any reliable evidence, I simply pointed out how convenient it is to non-democratic regimes to make such claims.

Could Cuba exist as a "democratic" country as defined by the West? That's a different question. My own view is that if you give up on democracy you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

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Originally posted by otter:

Oh boy, here's another one that has no idea of what democracy either looks like or how it is supposed to behave... sheeessh

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22% of the electorate voted for Harper, if 22% of Cubans voted for Castro would that make it a democracy.

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Originally posted by C.Morgan:
I like to put my money on the views of those who lived it rather than some idealistic North Americans lost in the blind following of a disproven philosophy.

How about basing the vote on this.

How many refugees have we seen getting on rickety rafts and boats fleeing Canada, the USA and Western Europe in order to get to Cuba as opposed to how many we have seen risking their lives to flee to Cuba?

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At least one pro-Cuba poster on this thread has been there firsthand. Have you?

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If 22% of the Cuban electorate voted for Castro in free and fair multiparty elections and he won a minority government, yes that would make Cuba a democracy. Maybe he should try it.

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then you have a pretty strange idea of democracy if you believe the interests of a small minority should supercede the interests of the rest of the populace, which is the case of the pseudo-democracy that exists in Canada.

Let's be clear I'm not defending Castro but if you are going to condemn Cuba for lack of democracy then it is only realistic to acknowledge the profound flaws in the Canadian system.

only 36% of 68% of the electorate voted for Harper and his goons and they are able to operate as though he has a majority only because opposition parties are in disarray this does not reflect the opposition to his ideas and policies.

Harper himself displays full-blown contempt for democracy in his style of rule gagging his MP's refusing to speak to reporters.

Not that Martin or Chretian were much better as democrats they campaingned on policies that were popular with the electorate promising investment in education , health care, housing yet they always ended up representing the interests of the business elite. The Martin debt crisis was one of the biggest frauds perpetrated against the Canadian public in order to dismantle government programs and reverse activist government that was favoured by the populace but against the interest of the elite. That is not democracy.

The fact that the media is a representation of the same elitist interests and is becoming ever more concentrated in the hands of a few. How is that free, does everyone have equal access to the expression of opinion, interest and influence? That is somethng necesssary for a true democracy to flourish.

Of course Canadians do not have equal access to media but neither do Cubans. But at least Canadians have the right to express, publish and broadcast their political opinions, and there are many ways of getting your message out besides the corporate media.

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Others think it is more important to avoid a US dictated solution. That is a reasonable view. BUT then people should own up to the choice they are making, rather than claiming that Fidel is a democrat, Cuba is a democracy, etc. etc.

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Jeff, I fully agree with the first part of this statement which fully matches my views.

I do think Fidel deserves an incredible amount of respect for what he continues to do for Cuba. No other country in our hemisphere has free university education, nearly 100% organic food production, environmental protection laws and the very basics of social justice (housing, food, education, healthcare, foreign aid that actually helps people instead of the corporations, etc.) enshrined in law.

Could any of this be done using Washington's definition of "democracy" and their imposed neo-liberal agenda?

As earlier posted, Venezuela and increasingly Bolivia appear to be taking a more "democratic" path to these goals, however, the hatred and lies being spread against both Chavez and Morales by our masters in Washington make me very nervous about their long term successes.

No other leader in our hemisphere has survived what Fidel has. No other leader has given hope to so many of the downtrodden that a better world is possible.

Stating Cuba is "non democratic" is too easy a dismissal of what continues to be achieved against incredible odds. Stating that the other nations in our hemisphere (including ours) are feudalistic and colonies of US imperialism is the greater challenge and evil that must be challenged.

Here's a great article that is really worth the read:

Progressive Cuba Bashing

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Originally posted by jeff house:
That's the reason I dislike the Bush administration; they use "security" to justify repression. So, I am not going to say it's wrong for them, and okay for Fidel.

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And there we find the cogent point.

People here love Castro because he instituted a moderately successful socialist regime, after throwing out a corrupt capitalist regime.

And for that they are willing to overlook the severe lack of freedom that Cubans possess, the disrepect for basic rights, and general repression of the population. Apparently complaint about these is just 'sour grapes'.

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Proaxiom wrote:

But these same sins when committed in far lesser degrees by those who condemn socialism, are unforgivable.

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
I want democratic socialism for Cuba, and have been critical of what Fidel has done. But what you don't seem to understand, proaxiom, is that most of the "anti-Castro" types that make the news, especially in Miami but to some degree those funded by the U.S. on the island, are NOT honorable democrats. They don't just want to get rid of the repression. They want to get rid of EVERYTHING and put the rich back in power. Once that happens, life is basically over in Cuba. Once that happens, all hope for a decent life is lost for all but a wealthy, light-skinned minority.

This is why some people are willing to give the Cuban revolution a pass on some of these things. They(and to some degree I)have seen what happens in Latin America when the U.S. imposes "democracy".

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Funny you should mention Chavez and Morales. They have far more respect for Castro than you do:

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While I won't argue that the wealthy exercise disproportionate influence, it's simplistic to say they have a strangehold on political power in Canada. Most politicians (give or take a Paul Martin) do not come from the wealthy class. There are many civil society groups fighting for greater equality as is the NDP if I can put in a shameless plug.

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Those in the ruling elite generally don't enter politics because they are too busy consolidating their wealth and power. Just because politicians don't come from "super rich" backgrounds doesn't mean they aren't serving the interests of the elite. Even still the majority of politicians are at least middle if not upper-middle class white guys.

There remains serious lack of representation for women and POC.

Recently it was reported that 15% of the population lives below the poverty line, with probably another 5-10% close to it. Who speaks for these people, poverty issues are rarely raised by politicians. When the NDP embraces and espouses the same neo-liberal and global free-market fanaticism of the other parties where is the alternative? How can we call this country democratic when so many people have no voice or representation?

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And for that they are willing to overlook the severe lack of freedom that Cubans possess, the disrepect for basic rights, and general repression of the population. Apparently complaint about these is just 'sour grapes'.

But these same sins when committed in far lesser degrees by those who condemn socialism, are unforgivable.

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There are severe violations of human rights occuring in Canada on a regular basis you(along with the majority of canadians) just choose to ignore. First Nations people live in appalling poverty and have long fought and hard won agreements torn up by smug bullies like Harper without hesitation and with little resistance.

People are regularly denied access to housing and resources necessary for survival and this becomes normalized and acceptable.

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Originally posted by Kenehan:

I think a lot of people here want to turn Castro either into a "bad guy" who abuses human rights or a "good guy" who brought socialism to Cubans. I'd probably tend more towards the latter point of view but I think hagiography doesn't do much to convince the undecided.

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There are severe violations of human rights occuring in Canada on a regular basis you(along with the majority of canadians) just choose to ignore. First Nations people live in appalling poverty and have long fought and hard won agreements torn up by smug bullies like Harper without hesitation and with little resistance.

People are regularly denied access to housing and resources necessary for survival and this becomes normalized and acceptable.

The police beat, harrass and imprison black youth, first nations persons, the poor and the homeless but it's much easier to focus on the actions of a small country in the Caribean.

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Trying to establish equivalency doesn't at all help Cuba's case.

In Canada, yes, there are rights violations. But we have courts and rights tribunals that alleged violations can be brought before for punishment and redress.

The plight of aboriginals is mostly a result of crimes committed long ago that most of us would like to somehow correct (though that is easier said than done).

But we have the Charter. We have freedom of speech, assembly, and association. Free press. Free elections. Privacy rights.

All of these things are lacking in Cuba, and frankly, that really sucks. When you try to argue some kind of equivalence, I have to wonder, would you actually want to trade our way of life for theirs?

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In Canada, yes, there are rights violations. But we have courts and rights tribunals that alleged violations can be brought before for punishment and redress.

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The criminal justice system is responsible to a large to degree for violations of the rights of marginalized peoples in this country

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The plight of aboriginals is mostly a result of crimes committed long ago that most of us would like to somehow correct (though that is easier said than done).

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There is ongoing and extreme systemic racism and enforced impoverishment of native commmunities. The breaking of the Kelowna accord is a continuation of a long history of ignoring treaty rights.

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But we have the Charter. We have freedom of speech, assembly, and association. Free press. Free elections. Privacy rights.

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I've already commented on the alleged democratic nature of our elections and again the corporate press does not in any way equal free press.
People have the right to demonstrate dissent up until the point the police or government determine you a threat, at that point you will be tear gassed or trudeoned and imprisoned.

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All of these things are lacking in Cuba, and frankly, that really sucks. When you try to argue some kind of equivalence, I have to wonder, would you actually want to trade our way of life for theirs?

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
I've already commented on the alleged democratic nature of our elections and again the corporate press does not in any way equal free press.

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Press and speech freedom are not limited to MSM. In front of you right now, you have a computer that is connected to the Internet and you are free to write just about anything you want (excluding things like libel and so forth).

Then, in 1956, Khrushchov made a secret speech to party brass, in which he admitted in essence, that the criticisms made earlier about the repression were correct.

After that, all the CPers were happy to criticize Stalin, and didn't merely try to change the subject.

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Yes of course. A return the monarchy!

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quote:

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Originally posted by jeff house:

After that, all the CPers were happy to criticize Stalin, and didn't merely try to change the subject.

What about that?

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I think that the U.S. incarcerates black people at six times the rate of the most openly racist nation of the last century, South Africa.

In fact, no other country has a larger gulag population or owns a higher incarceration rate than the USA.

And I think the biggest threat to human rights on the island of Cuba are Uncle Sam's torture gulags at Guantanamo and the more than 600 prisoners being held there and denied legal representation.

No other country in the world intervenes in other countries affairs like the U.S. does today with almost 900 military installations spread across the globe and thousands of CIA agents in every major city in the world.

And no other country has aided and abetted 36 of the most brutal right-wing dictators in order to stop an idea and delay world-wide people's revolutions than the U.S.A.

No other country menaces every other country in the world with exporting terror and war like the U.S.A. does. Nobody does it better.

That's what I think about that, Jeff. This is today we're talking about, not Stalin's era or the corporate-sponsored Nazis or even the doctor and the madman. So quit trying to change the era.

[ 03 August 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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I am also concerned about the millions of Americans risking their lives in open boats trying to reach the socialist haven of Cuba.

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I'm sure if Cuba had the capacity to accept immigrants there would be many impoverished North Americans would be happy to live there.

quote:

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Originally posted by Fidel:

Being a socialist is as easy as deciding whether or not you want to breathe today. If it hasn't dawned on you by now, then maybe you should decide what other options appeal to you moreso.

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I know that the discussion on this board gets peurile sometimes but this is a new low. Suddenly I'm not a socialist because I dare to point out that the Cuban model of socialism might not possibly be the best one to follow at this point in history.

You want to know why the Canadian Left consists of a bunch of jerk-offs selling newspapers to each other at poorly attended rallies? Because any attempt to actually analyze what might be the most effective ways to realize your goals is never contemplated.

It's not a coincidence that every single succesful marxist (including Fidel Castro) was rejected by the party-line Communists of their day. While the party-line people sat in discussion circles and wanked off about how great everything was somewhere else, the people who really made a difference figured out what would and would not work and put it into action.

If you think the Cuban model is flawless or that it will work anywhere else I'm depressed but not surprised.

Look at Cuba's human development indicators.

Then compare it to other countries and see who has a higher literacy rate, a longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality rates.

Yes, Cuba is a poor country.

It is also an egalitarian poor country.

It is not a particularly free poor country.

The twenty year olds we were hanging out with are worried about how Raul will behave. They don't particularly trust him. They are still solidly leftist, though, one of them has a Che tattoo, and all of them are absolute supporters of that ideal.

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If you think the Cuban model is flawless or that it will work anywhere else I'm depressed but not surprised.

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Nobody here, even the most pro-Cuba posters, has said that the Cuban system is flawless.
There is a great debate about what was the source of those flaws. We can fairly ask, would Cuba have ended up as repressive as it is had the U.S. government not done everything in its power to STOP the revolution.

While there are some things I admire about John F. Kennedy, for example, his Latin American policies are not among them(and his brother Bobby's presidential campaign was in large measure
a repudiation that policy, among other things).
I think it was a great historical blessing that the Bay of Pigs invasion failed, because it could only have led to a Cuba under some sort of a right-wing military junta. The Miami types would have allowed nothing else.

Of course people have the right to criticize Cuba on particular issues and to call for reform and change.

The issue is, which outside sources have the right to organize opposition to it and which alternatives are and are not legitimate?

People from the U.S.(such as myself)are always under at least some constraint about what we are entitled to say about Cuba. I've been critical of the Cuban model myself, but even I agree that no one in the U.S. has any right to call for the actual overthrow of the Cuban system. Americans eternally forfeited that right because of the sins our leaders have committed against Cuba throughout its history.

Also, I would say that the Miami exiles are not legitimate players in Cuba's future. These are the people who still don't understand why the Revolution occurred, still don't get it that they essentially CAUSED the Revolution with their greed and arrogance, and still don't realize that, basically, nobody who stayed on Cuba wants them to come back, especially if they are going to come back and act as if it goes without saying that they are Cuba's natural leaders.

Finally, while it is legitimate to call for more democracy and openness(if you are calling, at the same time, for the end of official U.S. hostility towards Cuba)it is not legitimate, and will NEVER be legitimate, to call for the restoration of old-fashioned capitalism.

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Originally posted by Kenehan:
Sven,

Look at Cuba's human development indicators.

Then compare it to other countries and see who has a higher literacy rate, a longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality rates.

Then come back and tell us how things would be so much better under "democracy"

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Originally posted by jrootham:
Yes, Cuba is a poor country.

It is also an egalitarian poor country.

It is not a particularly free poor country.

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Alexis de Tocqueville could not have said it better when he wrote:

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There is indeed a manly and legitimate passion for equality which rouses in all men a desire to be strong and respected. This passion tends to elevate the little man to the rank of the great. But the human heart also nourishes a depraved taste for equality, which leads the weak to want to drag the strong down to their level and which induces men to prefer equality in servitude to inequality in freedom.

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Originally posted by jrootham:
However, their attack on the mosquito problem (Dengue fever) is to fumigate the whole city on a regular basis. They shut down all the offices downtown one day when we were there to fumigate them, and the street I was living on got fumigated twice with very large scale sprayings, clouds of insecticide about 4 stories in the air.

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I was honored to be one of 11 students from the University of Florida who spent spring break in Cuba this year. As science students, we wanted to analyze how this island nation protects its people from mosquito-transmitted diseases, like West Nile virus.

Cuba, we found, has something to teach us.

Beginning in 1977, Cuba endured five epidemics of Dengue Fever, a mosquito-transmitted virus that has resulted in millions of cases worldwide. People infected with the Dengue virus experience symptoms of high fever, headache, rashes, or back and bone pain. A secondary infection can produce Dengue Hemorrhagic Fever, which leads to bleeding and shock and can be fatal. Now, 26 years and five outbreaks later, Cuba is Dengue-free and working toward improved sanitation and aggressive public health community education programs.

As future scientists in health care, we worked with the Pedro Kourí Institute, under the Cuban Ministry of Health, in order to discover what Cuban scientists have accomplished in terms of effective disease control and community prevention strategies. What we found is that Cubans are acutely aware of the dangers.

Cuba has a history of effective public health education, and our task was to find out how well it continues to work. Prior to our trip, I developed a 30-question interview in Spanish that would allow the research team to identify whether Cuban citizens have a general understanding of Dengue Fever and the risk of the disease to community members. My interview results were impressive. Each of the 63 people I questioned could not only explain Dengue Fever, its symptoms and possible complications, but also could name the species of the mosquito carrier, Aedes aegypti. These Cubans could also describe methods to prevent mosquito infestation, including placing bottles upside-down, cracking egg shells, and cleaning out old tires.

This awareness is owed to a public health campaign that is broad in scope. Elementary schools teach children on Saturdays how to clean the house and yard to prevent mosquito-breeding grounds popping up in standing water puddles. Television programs provide basic education on potential health concerns and prevention strategies. During Dengue Fever outbreaks, officials fumigate houses and check household hygiene several times during the week. After eradication, these checks are completed weekly. Fines are given for poor practices in sanitation. Source

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Human rights includes the right to have a government that takes public health seriously. Human rights includes the right to have a government that ensures that nobody starves to death. Human rights includes the right to an education and the right to medical treatment. Human rights includes the right to have available measures for public safety and survival in the event of devastating hurricanes.

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Well, as has been said many times before, why are people dying (literally) to get the hell out of Cuba?

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People are dying because there is a restriction on their freedom of movement and ability to leave the country legitimately and yes this is wrong. That does not mean that the majority of the population find life there intolerable.

As has also been mentioned before people are dying to get out of other countries at much more significant level as is the case with Mexico. ALso more people died getting out of New Orleans than trying to get out of cuba.

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Freedom of speech and the press don't mean others have to give you access to a national newspaper or a national radio or TV network.

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Freedom of speech does not have a great deal of meaning if you are denied a significant forum to express it.

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is "freedom" really a concept with any meaning if you have to struggle just to survive in a "free" system?

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To put this another way, is the red pill really better than the blue pill?

For me, yes. I would choose liberty and ongoing struggle over constraint and security.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
ALso more people died getting out of New Orleans than trying to get out of cuba.

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And more than 11,000 French citizens died a few years ago trying to get out of the heat.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Freedom of speech does not have a great deal of meaning if you are denied a significant forum to express it.

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That has about as much to do with Cuban civil liberties as your comment about New Orleans.

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So, every citizen is supposed to be given a "significant forum" to express themselves? In the USA, that would be about 300 million "significant forums". That's absurd.

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Of course that is not what I meant there is a large degree of movement between every person to editiorial content being dictated by a small number of media conclomerates.

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
...mundane freedom of speech...

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Freedom of speech is a "mundane" right?

Well, for the those in the world who live in grinding poverty, having food, clothing and shelter is the single focus of their existence. The two basic U.N. measures of "poverty" are living on $1 per day or living on $2 per day. And, for those who fall in that category, freedom of speech and other civil liberties mean little or nothing.

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The migratory argument is frequently used to stigmatize the Cuban revolutionary process. It is said that the “large” number of Cubans who have emigrated to the United States is evidence of the lack of legitimacy of the Cuban government.
....

Before the overthrow of dictator Fulgencio Batista in 1959, the flow of immigrants from Cuba to the United States was bigger than that of Central and South America together. Cuban immigration was even more important than that from Africa and Oceania combined and higher than demographic giants like China, India, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia.

Special legislation to encourage migration

In 1966, the US Congress passed the Cuban Adjustment Act that grants permanent residence to any Cuban citizen who arrives in the United States legally or illegally. This law aims at encouraging illegal migration using it as a political weapon against the Cuban government. This law is also accompanied by a brutal economic war implemented by the United States against Cuba since 1960 and which greatly affects the population and is another factor that encourages illegal migration.

1993 and the “Special Period”

It is important to make a stop in 1993. It was the worst moment of the Special Period. In effect, in 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed, Cubans were still able to, to a certain degree, benefit from their trade with the Eastern bloc. In 1992, the national reserves allowed them to solve the first problems. But, in 1993, there was nothing left.

It would not be a surprise to find out that 1993 was a year of massive immigration into the United States, given the geopolitical and economic situation that Cuba had to face. However, that was not the case. In effect, there were only 13,666 immigrants in 1993 compared to 17,156 from Canada, 17,241 from Jamaica, 26,818 from El Salvador – double – 45,420 from the Dominican Republic – triple – and 126,561 from Mexico, that is, ten times more than from Cuba. That means that in 1993 Cuba occupied only the sixth place among Latin American countries as to immigration into the United States.

As to 1994, it was an important year due to the wave of “rafters”, [the] name given to the Cubans who tried to emigrate using rafts or improvised boats. Those events were widely spread and politicized by the international media to the extent that they were giving the impression that all Cubans were trying to leave the island. What was the reality?

In 1994, there were only 14,727 immigrants, behind Canada (16,068), Salvador (17,644), Dominican Republic (51,189) – three times that of Cuba – and Mexico (111,398). Cuba placed fifth among Latin American countries as to immigration into the United States.

Current emigration

It is interesting to carry out a migratory balance based on the latest statistics. In 2003, there were only 9,304 illegal departures to the northern neighbor, thus placing tenth in Latin America behind Peru (9,444), Canada (11,446), Haiti (12,314), Jamaica (13,384), Guatemala (14,415), Colombia (14,777), Dominican Republic (26,205), Salvador (28,296) and Mexico (115,864). That is, Cuba went from the second place in 1959 to the tenth in 2003.

Politicization of the migratory issue

Oddly enough, the other nations’ migration has never been given a political nature. For example, in 2003, El Salvador, a country of 5.75 million inhabitants – half the population of Cuba – had three times more immigrants into the United States than Cuba. However, nobody has ever used this element to accuse the Salvadoran government of being totalitarian. Similarly, the Dominican Republic, with only 8.5 million inhabitants, also had three times more immigrants than Cuba. Jamaica, with barely 2.6 million inhabitants, that is, four times less than Cuba, had more illegal departures to the United States than Cuba, like also Haiti, which has a population of 6.8 million inhabitants. And let us add that in the case of the countries mentioned above, there is not any US adjustment laws and that they are not suffering any economic sanctions. In spite of that, nobody has dared to use the argument of migration to describe the authorities of those countries as dictatorial regimes. Source

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[ 03 August 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:

People died in New Orleans died because of racism, classism and an absolute neglect and abuse of basic human rights if you don't understand that then there is little you ever will understand.

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People in New Orleans died because of stupid and tragic mistakes, from the federal government down to the mayor of the city.

I love it when people immediately start screaming "racism" and "classism" when something like New Orleans happens but when 11,000 people died in France due to a heat wave, there was little if anything said on babble at the time. And, I'm sure that most of those in France who died were the poor, the elderly and people of color. Yet, no one was screeching about "classism" or "ageism" or "racism" when that happened. Only when some tragedy like that happens in the USA. Uh huh.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Actually considering the vastness of media resources it is actually not necessarily unreasonable to have their say. It is certainly better than Rush Limbaugh doing five shows a week and being syndicated by 10,000 or so stations that would be the equivatlent of 50,000 shows a week that would be over 2,500,000 a year. i think if you randomly chose 2,500,000 U.S. citizens you would certainly get more reasoned and nuanced and diverse opinion than one slobbering red-neck.

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People in New Orleans died because of stupid and tragic mistakes, from the federal government down to the mayor of the city.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Before the overthrow of dictator Fulgencio Batista in 1959, the flow of immigrants from Cuba to the United States was bigger than that of Central and South America together. Cuban immigration was even more important than that from Africa and Oceania combined and higher than demographic giants like China, India, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia.

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Yes, yes, yes.

And if the mean ol' USofA hadn't treated Castro so poorly, Cuba would have created a space program, cured cancer, discovered the fountain of youth, figured out a way to have a one-hour orgasm, discovered "the" meaning of life, etc., etc., etc.

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Originally posted by Sven:
I'm sorry, but a person making 8 or 9 bucks an hour isn't in that category; life made be challenging but "fighting for existence"? generally not

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Why don't you try living on those kinds of wages for some time without using any of the resources you have accumulated, and then see what it's like?

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Originally posted by Sven:
Cuba is a failure. Even if there were zero people trying to leave Cuba, I know that there are extremely few who are beating down the doors of Cuba tring to get in to enjoy equality in slavery (in very stark contrast to the USA and Canada, for example).

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We're a relatively cold country, so I could see many Canadians wanting to live in Cuba.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
intentional negligence, neglect and failure to respond is not a "mistake". Intentional neglect of impoverished people be it in France, the U.S. or Nairobi is always classist.

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And virtually no one would be listening to the "reasoned and nuanced" opinions of the average Joe and Jane blathering about this or that. Running 2.5 million hours of people taking 24 hours per day would mean having 285 channels running constantly. How "significant" would such a forum mean to an individual? One hour...lost among 2.5 million hours. In the USA, those 2.5 million people would represent less than 1% of the population. What about the other 99% of the people? Where would there "voice" be?

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Why would the average person be "blathering" how are there opinions less valid or intelligent and informed than the media half wits that are presently clogging the airwaves.

Radio is only one form of media there is television and print and film. How is personal expression "lost" if it is an increase over the present level of expressino

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But, the thing about the France tragedy is that all of those who were screeching about how terrible the USA was with respect to New Orleans, were fucking dead silent about France.

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Yes it's terrible when people on a progressive board "screech" about obvious racism and denial of human rights.

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Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
Why don't you try living on those kinds of wages for some time without using any of the resources you have accumulated, and then see what it's like?

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I have lived on those kinds of wages, my friend. The "resources" that I have "accumulated" have come from hard and focused work. After I left home at 18, the SUM TOTAL of money that I received from my parents was $200.

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Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
We're a relatively cold country, so I could see many Canadians wanting to live in Cuba.

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Of course, you're only speaking theoretically. In reality, where most people live, the number of Canadians actually moving to Cuba for "a better life" is probably very close to ZERO.

As for people banging down the door to get into the US from Cuba? Sven, please address this question: Why don't you hear about people in the media being smuggled into Canada and the US, often at risk of their very lives?[/QB][/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Every peron does not necessarily need to have access to the media but a true democracy encourages as much participation in debate and discourse as possible. This certainly does not occur now access to the media is restricted to those repeating the dominant ideology.

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Why don't you and similarly-minded folks risk your own money and buy a radio or TV station or produce a radio show for syndication? If the NDP has 30% of the voters, that's about, what, 10 million Canadians? Even if each person could only, on average, contribute $100 to the pot, there'd be about $1 billion to launch a serious media challenger.

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Originally posted by N.R.KISSED:
Yes it's terrible when people on a progressive board "screech" about obvious racism and denial of human rights.

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Actually, no that's not terrible. What's terrible is people largely failing to raise an eyebrow in one instance of "classism" while on the other hand, when something similar occurs in the USA, peopel go apeshit.

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I can not make up good news, because that would be unethical; and if there were bad news, these will only be of benefit to the enemy. Given the specific situation facing Cuba and the plans designed by the empire, the information about my health condition becomes a state secret that can not be continuously disseminated; and my compatriots should understand that. I can not let myself be trapped by the vicious circle of the health parameters that are constantly changing during the day.

I can say that my condition is stable, but only with time could I speak about the true evolution of my health status.

The best I could say is that my condition will remain stable for many days to come before I could give a verdict.

I very much appreciate all the messages sent by our compatriots and by many people in the world.

I feel sorry for having caused so much concern and bother to our friends in the world....

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Originally posted by Sven:

Air America, a left-wing attempt to break into radio, failed miserably...because nobody was interested in listening to it.

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Actually, Air America is still on the air and doing just fine. So is Pacifica, and it's "Democracy Now" news program has developed a large and growing audience.

The obstacle to progressive commercial radio isn't listenership. Air America has shown that the audience exists. The obstacle is being able to sell advertising time. Since most of those who want to buy commercial radio advertising time are political neanderthals, they are not going to buy on Air America.

And as to your point on things mattering beyond "mere survival" that is the point I was making in another thread that you very contemptously dismissed.

In Cuba, ordinary people, despite the constraints that exist in that system, people do have many means of artistic and creative expression. They also have inexpensive access to musical and theatrical performances and exhibitions of art. We can assume that the Miami exiles would take most of this away, and would go back to their old project of denying any expression of the culture of the black and mixed-raced majority of Cuba.

The way to let people enjoy true freedom is to combine it with at least some level of economic security. This is why I've advocated democratic socialism rather than the Leninist model that Cuba has, although it does go without saying that even the Leninist model is superior to what the Miami exiles and the Bush people would impose.

But clearly, the poor of Cuba have nothing whatsoever to gain from greater inequality and the return of the old white rich.

Also, as to France, there were never any political implications in the heat stroke deaths there. And there was especially no way that the heat stroke deaths was the fault of the French left(who were not in power in France at the time, let me remind you.)

Those deaths would all have occurred in a privatized France where the medical care had to be paid for out of pocket.

[ 03 August 2006: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
The obstacle to progressive commercial radio isn't listenership. Air America has shown that the audience exists. The obstacle is being able to sell advertising time. Since most of those who want to buy commercial radio advertising time are political neanderthals, they are not going to buy on Air America.

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"For vendors, the money is so good that some abandoned government posts to sell produce. “I used to make about $5 a month,” said José Antonio Milanés Vasco, once employed in a state food warehouse. “Now I make $3 a day. My life has been totally transformed.”

Wow. A whole $5 a day and his life has been "totally transformed". Where are this guy's advocates for a "living wage"? If people where making $5 a day in Canada, it would be as though the world was falling apart (and they wouldn't be too far off the mark if that was widespread). But, in Cuba? Well, Cuba is the land of bountiful opportunity, the home of the God Fidel, a fiery beacon of hope and prosperity in a world of darkness, the future of humankind, Viva la Revolucian!!, and yada, yada, yada...

More inequality and the return of the arrogant rich will NEVER be Cuba's salvation. If greed had ever helped more than a handful of Cubans, and then only at the expense of the working class majority, the revolution wouldn't have occurred.

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Originally posted by Sven:
I think that business is more apolitical than many seem to think. Business is more mercenary than political. If there are millions of listener ears to reach, advertisers will want to pay money to reach them.

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What if the clout and influence of the advertisers is threatened by the message that these millions of people wish to listen to? Suppose I used advertisements to sell a particular product. Now, suppose you had a radio show deconstructing my advertising methods causing people to rethink whether or not they actually wanted what I had. Do you think I would be likely to pay for ad space on a radio station that hosts your show, even if your show can reach large audiences?

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Originally posted by Sven:
Wow. A whole $5 a day and his life has been "totally transformed". Where are this guy's advocates for a "living wage"? If people where making $5 a day in Canada, it would be as though the world was falling apart (and they wouldn't be too far off the mark if that was widespread). But, in Cuba? Well, Cuba is the land of bountiful opportunity, the home of the God Fidel, a fiery beacon of hope and prosperity in a world of darkness, the future of humankind, Viva la Revolucian!!, and yada, yada, yada...

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So assuming that the NYT accurately represented that particular anecdote, first off, I'll say I'm happy for that individual. As for the $5/month $3/per day, if that's not enough to live on, then by all means this individual should receive more. Is it enough to live on in Cuba? How expensive are things there? Who knows? You also have to know how much things cost to make meaningful statistics, so that side of the equation is missing. However, as has been stated several times on this site, human development indicators, etc have clearly shown that Cubans enjoy a higher standard of living than their counterparts in other Latin American countries. Does the NYT ever do stories about what life is like for people in capitalist countries like those in Central America? If so, please feel free to pass them along.

[ 04 August 2006: Message edited by: Aristotleded24 ]

Star reporter Tim Harper writes about his attempt to enter Cuba to write an article about the mood of the Cuban people.

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For three days here, the Star was prevented from reporting on the situation in this country, even as other journalists arrived on tourist visas and reported without official detection.

Our crime? Playing by the rules, applying for the needed visa upon arrival in Havana, an instance when honesty did not necessarily pay.

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Originally posted by Ken Burch:
If Cuba were run the way you and the exiles wanted, there would be maybe 2,000 rich people and the rest would be doing even worse than the person in your story.

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Even worse than $3 per day? LMAO!!!

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Originally posted by Aristotleded24:
As for the $5/month $3/per day, if that's not enough to live on, then by all means this individual should receive more. Is it enough to live on in Cuba? How expensive are things there? Who knows? You also have to know how much things cost to make meaningful statistics, so that side of the equation is missing.

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Originally posted by Sven:
Look, Fidel has had nearly fifty years to create a society of prosperity.

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You should be ashamed of what your country has done, and marvel at the spirt and endurance shown by the Cuban people in the face of such hardships.

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Alongside with the ritualistic calls for “democracy” in Cuba, US government officials announced plans for a major deployment of the Navy and US Coast Guard to effectively blockade the island and prevent refugees from fleeing to the US in the event Washington intervenes militarily or succeeds in precipitating a major crisis on the island.

The attempt to whip up a crisis over Castro’s health comes just weeks after the administration in Washington unveiled an $80 million Cuban “democracy” program to finance internal opposition to the Castro regime and prepare for a “transition” to the installation of a pro-US regime. This comes on top of the $35 million the US spends annually to finance Radio and TV Marti propaganda broadcasts beamed into Cuba, as well as the secret CIA budget for destabilization efforts on the island.

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[ 04 August 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

There is an good argument about political freedom in Cuba. There are arguments about the future direction of Cuba. Given the economic advantages of connecting to foreigners (which made my an object of sexual desire beyond my wildest dreams) there may well be some argument about state wage rates.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Star reporter Tim Harper doesn't bother to tell us why Cuba is in a heightened state of security.

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Reporters entering Cuba calling themselves reporters get quarantined and threatened. Reporters entering Cuba calling themselves tourists have no trouble getting their stories.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
And you should recognize that you have lost forever the right to dictate to the Cubans how they should organize their own society.

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