Author
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Topic: Muller v. HEU Local 180
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CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457
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posted 30 December 2004 11:32 AM
G. Farrell-Collins: "... a young woman who went through the nursing program at Camosun College had to cross a picket line as a volunteer in order to do her 40 hours of practicum and was advised by the union that it would be ok, volunteers were allowed to cross the picket line. But when she came to apply for a job as a nurse where she would have to join the HEU, she was denied the right to join that union and had to take that case to the Labour Relations Board." page 4125Legislative Assembly of British Columbia Hansard The young woman was denied membership in the union and therefore denied a job. It appears that the BC NDP feels that unions should be able to have members fired by their employers. [ 28 March 2006: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 30 December 2004 12:24 PM
quote: the BC NDP feels that unions should be able to have members fired by their employers.
In general, unions need powers to discipline those disposed to cross picket lines such as this woman did. Doing so usually means that you prefer personal advancement to the advancement of the membership as a whole. I see nothing wrong with the idea that unions should have some influence over hiring and firing. The alternative is that only the employer should have this right. Why would anyone progressive believe that?
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457
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posted 30 December 2004 12:32 PM
Originally posted by lagatta: quote:
I don't get it. You claim to be a CUPE reformer and you are pleading for unions to have fewer, not more, rights? Sounds like some of those babblers who claim to be NDP members and then say the NDP should espouse the harshest of neoliberal policies.
lagatta:Sometimes unions mistreat individual workers. Unions and individual workers should have more rights. Anti scab legislation should be passed. [ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 30 December 2004 12:39 PM
Unions, like all associations, businesses and public administrations, must be obliged to respect equality and civil rights, including the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (and here La Charte québécoise des droits). I am fully aware that there are unions who fail to respect their stated purpose of advancing the rights of all workers disregardless of colour, creed, gender, beliefs etc. Scabbing is not a civil right. Unions depend on the solidarity of their membership, and not crossing a picket line is an essential component of that. Hell, I haven't even been buying wine at the striking SAQ!
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457
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posted 30 December 2004 12:43 PM
Originally posted by jeff house: quote:
In general, unions need powers to discipline those disposed to cross picket lines such as this woman did.I see nothing wrong with the idea that unions should have some influence over hiring and firing. The alternative is that only the employer should have this right. Why would anyone progressive believe that?
jeff house:I agree that unions should be able to discipline union members. I also agree that unions should have some influence over hiring and firing. More safeguards need to exist to prevent unions from mistreating individual workers. [ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004
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CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457
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posted 30 December 2004 12:59 PM
Originally posted by lagatta: quote:
Unions, like all associations, businesses and public administrations, must be obliged to respect equality and civil rights, including the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (and here La Charte québécoise des droits). Scabbing is not a civil right. Unions depend on the solidarity of their membership, and not crossing a picket line is an essential component of that.
lagatta:The Charter of Rights and Freedoms only applies to the government. The Trial sections of most union constitutions are contrary to the most basic freedoms guaranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I agree that scabbing is not and should not be a civil right. [ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004
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CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457
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posted 30 December 2004 02:38 PM
Originally posted by lagatta: quote:
I'd like to know why you've got such a bone to pick with CUPE. No union is perfect - I can even tell some horror stories about the CSN, one of the most progressive trade unions in North America - but CUPE is certainly not among the parent unions usually singled out for undemocratic practices. Union democracy is essential, but weakening union solidarity does not contribute to it, on the contrary. And conversely, a more democratic union is a more authentically militant one, committed to the defence of workers' rights and also to principles of democracy, including economic democracy and human rights.
lagatta:CUPE is a big union. I have never seen democracy nor worker solidarity in CUPE. The only solidarity that I have seen is between CUPE and my employer. In my opinion it is almost impossible to find officers guilty of violating the CUPE Constitution (at least 4 out of 5 members of Local Union Trial Committees must agree). [ 19 April 2005: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004
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swirrlygrrl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2170
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posted 30 December 2004 03:40 PM
quote: CUPE is a big union. I have never seen democracy nor worker solidarity in CUPE.
Two ideas: 1. travel around a bit, to see some good CUPE locals - I can recommend a few if you'd like. I've had and heard of problems with CUPE, but I've also had and heard of some excellent experiences. Something about it being a large oranization, made up of all these imperfect human types. 2. if you don't like it, take it over. My local has elections and such - I'd assume yours does too. If there is an actual problem, some on the ground mobilizing should raise awareness, and a good team of people who want to see change could be built. Of course, be aware that you'll likely be asked for positive things you would do, not just a list of the evils committed by those currently in leadership positions.
From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002
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CUPE_Reformer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7457
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posted 30 December 2004 04:56 PM
Originally posted by swirrlygrrl: quote:
Two ideas: 1. travel around a bit, to see some good CUPE locals - I can recommend a few if you'd like. I've had and heard of problems with CUPE, but I've also had and heard of some excellent experiences. Something about it being a large oranization, made up of all these imperfect human types. 2. if you don't like it, take it over. My local has elections and such - I'd assume yours does too. If there is an actual problem, some on the ground mobilizing should raise awareness, and a good team of people who want to see change could be built. Of course, be aware that you'll likely be asked for positive things you would do, not just a list of the evils committed by those currently in leadership positions.
swirrlygrrl:Thank you for your advice. I would appreciate it if you would recommend some good CUPE locals. [ 16 February 2005: Message edited by: CUPE_Reformer ]
From: Real Solidarity | Registered: Nov 2004
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Phil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 989
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posted 03 January 2005 05:02 AM
quote: Originally posted by robbie_dee: I was a member of CUPE Local 3906 and while we sometimes got bogged down in petty internal politics, all in all I thought we had a pretty good union. I've generally had a very good experience with the entire CUPE University Sector, at least in Ontario. Of course, alln these locals were originally part of an independent union, the CUEW, before merging with CUPE.
I am a member of CUPE 3906 and have no serious complaints with CUPE at the Local, Provincial or National level. Nevertheless, I recognize that CUPE's commitment to "Local autonomy" can lead to the "petty internal politics" that RD describes. I'm happy to report that currently CUPE 3906 is focused on bargaining and is enjoying a period of profound solidarity!!!
Edit: Also want to add that I was not real happy with what happened to HEU last year.... [ 03 January 2005: Message edited by: Phil ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2001
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lacabombi
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7014
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posted 15 January 2005 09:54 PM
quote: Negad: ..the only solidarity that I have seen in CUPE is between the employer and executives which resulted in executives recevieng big pedastals and CHEQUES. They are big bullies like you wouldn't beleive. Discrimiantion and violation of human rights? don't even ask
Like political parties, union have a strategic interest to cater to the majority of their members. Thus, they reflect the sexism and racism that exists in the general population.
As for CUPE, isn't it the union that represent for instance the employees of the Workers' Compensation Board of Ontario (whatever its name now) that has never ended its war against injured workers and other ministries and institutions that -through these CUPE-members employees, inflict abuses on citizens ?
quote: There are some courageous doctors in Canada who have seen the abuses within WCBs and have come forward with their complaints. One brave doctor, Doctor Maida Follini, testified before a 1998 committee on Nova Scotia's WCB Act, "I experienced some pressure from the WCB in relation to one of my cases. After submitting my report, I received a letter from Dr. Kevin A. Bourke, Medical Adviser, Central North Shore, informing me that he would not process the invoice for my fee unless I edited my report to conform to his desires. Fortunately, unbeknownst to him, I had already received my fee. I, of course, did not edit my report. But I did inform him of the rationale for the recommendations that I had made. I might say that I was somewhat affronted that a WCB staff member would request that an independent professional change her report to conform to the board's wishes and in particular, threaten to withhold payment."
http://www.straightgoods.ca/ViewLetter.cfm?REF=1441 While the above quotes relate to Nova Scotia's WCB, the Ontario one is even worse. When was the last time a public servant -through CUPE- has blown the whistle against abuse of citizens by his/her employer ? Sorry my friends, I certainly consider myself progressive, but although I am a CAW member I have little respect for unions, our North American brand that is. [ 15 January 2005: Message edited by: lacabombi ]
From: Ontario | Registered: Oct 2004
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robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195
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posted 17 January 2005 07:50 PM
I don't think it is "un-progressive" or anti-union to discuss oppressive conduct by union officials or any other problems that union members may encounter within their union. Unions are organizations like any other. They have problems like any other. There are also problems unique to the role that unions play, in our labor relations system, as an intermediary between the individual worker and their boss.All in all, I think most unions do more good for more people more of the time than they do ill. But that doesn't mean there aren't important things that can and have to be changed. That being said, it is one thing to gripe about the problems, it is another thing to stand up and try to change them. If you are having a particular problem with CUPE or another union, there are a lot of intelligent people who visit this forum and who might be able to offer advice. There are other web communities I could recommend for this purpose, too. I would further suggest, though, that if what you are looking for is help or moral support in crossing a picket line (as is the case in the quote CUPE_Reformer used to start this thread), you probably won't find that here or on the other sites I am thinking of. I do believe that crossing a picket line is both an unprogressive and an anti-union act.
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001
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robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195
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posted 17 January 2005 11:15 PM
Even without knowing the details of your situation, one piece of information I can bring to your attention is that CUPE does have an "Equality" department. If you are having particular issues with race or sex based discrimination in your local, which you seem to be implying, you may want to try contacting them. From CUPE.ca -- Contacts & Links -- National quote: Equality BranchMaureen Morrison Director, Equality Branch (613) 237-1590 ext. 314 [email protected]
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001
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