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» babble   » from far and wide   » bc, alberta, saskatchewan   » Is the BC Green Party dead?

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Author Topic: Is the BC Green Party dead?
Stockholm
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posted 30 October 2008 06:16 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The results are in from the two provincial byelections and while it was great for the NDP to win boht - it seems to me that if there was one big loser - it has to be the so-called BC Green Party.

Let's keep in mind that Burrard and Fairview essentially make up the federal riding of Vancouver Centre - where the federal greens ran Adriane Carr just two weeks ago and while she came in fourth - she got a credible 17% of the vote.

One would think that these byelections would be a perfect storm for the BC Greens - two byelections in seats with PERFECT demographics for them - relatively high income urban ridings where you might think that there would be some NDP leaning voters who might not like their party's attacks on the carbon tax etc..., plus the greens ran their leader Jane Sterk, plus its a byelection where eople are free to cast a protest vote knowing that the stakes are low etc... and yet they got a pathetic FIVE PERCENT in Burrard and the leader got just SEVEN PERCENT in Fairview - in each case barely ahead of fringe candidates from the moribund BC Conservative party and even the Marijuana Party.

This has to be considered a very, very, very bad sign for them and suggests that any province-wide poll that gives them anything in double digits has to be taken with a grain of salt.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
1948
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posted 30 October 2008 06:55 AM      Profile for 1948   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I still think the Green Party is a place where people park their vote when they can't stomach voting for their party of choice.

Thus the Greens surged in BC when Ujjal Dosanjh was leading the NDP to defeat. Dippers voted Green. When Carole James was leading the NDP back from the wilderness four years later all of those voters came back and the Green vote collapsed.

A few weeks ago Greens semi-surged on the strength of Liberal voters who couldn't quite stomach voting Liberal. However, the same voters - two weeks later - were happy voting for their first choices again.

In Ontario's most recent election the Greens biggest gains were in rural Ontario where Conservative voters - disgusted with Tory's inept campaigning and having a predictably bigoted reaction to his plan to fund Jewish and Muslim schools - fled to the Greens who were campaigning to not only against Jewish and Muslim schools but against Catholic schools to boot.


From: Ontario | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 30 October 2008 07:42 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The real vacuum in BC politics right now is on the right. What if you are a rightwing Socred type who votes Tory federally and you hate the carbon tax - where do you go??

With any luck, the BC Conservative Party will get its act together and run a candidate in every single riding - even if they only win 5% on average that can flip a lot of seats to the NDP by taking away BC Liberal votes.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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posted 30 October 2008 08:15 AM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
After reaching their historic high in 2001, the Greens fell to just 9.2 per cent province-wide in B.C.'s 2005 general election. That's pretty close to the Green Party's share in B.C. in the most-recent federal general election, 9.4 per cent.

For the foreseeable future, then, the Greens look like any other fringe party, and seem destined to remained mire in single digits in terms of popular support.



BC Greens falling back to earth

From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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posted 30 October 2008 08:22 AM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What folks heard at the doorstep -
quote:
"I spent most of my time on Denman and Davie," Thorne said. "Housing was huge. Rental housing, homelessness, and affordable housing in general: a huge, huge issue."

Thorne said she didn't hear much criticism of the NDP's controversial "Axe the Tax" campaign, which was blamed for hampering Michael Byers in his Vancouver-Centre federal run.

"I didn't have anybody say to me, 'I'm not going to vote for Spencer because of your [Axe the Tax] campaign,'" Thorne said. "I must have talked to thousands of people in the past eight days. I had two people ask me about it."


Meanwhile in the loser Gordo Liberal camp there appears to be a disconnect:

quote:
Vance Campbell, President of the Vancouver-Burrard Liberal riding association, said a Liberal defeat could mean the premier needs to make his carbon tax clearer to voters.

He said the tax has been misunderstood by many British Columbians as a cash grab instead of a revenue neutral climate change plan.



Premier Campbell shrugs off by-election defeat


From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 30 October 2008 12:41 PM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1948:
disgusted with Tory's inept campaigning and having a predictably bigoted reaction to his plan to fund Jewish and Muslim schools

Excuse me, there is nothing "bigoted" about not wanting one's tax dollars to fund a religiously segregated - and de facto racially segregated - school system.

The real bigots IMHO are those who think there is something wrong with kids from different religious backgrounds going to school together.


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
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posted 30 October 2008 01:11 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

With any luck, the BC Conservative Party will get its act together and run a candidate in every single riding - even if they only win 5% on average that can flip a lot of seats to the NDP by taking away BC Liberal votes.


Has there not been an understanding between Libs and Cons since the early 1950s in B.C. that such contests for power will not take place? (Or is my memory seriously letting me down, here...don't make that an adamant "yes", please).


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 30 October 2008 01:23 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Its not quite that simple, all through the 50s, 60s, and 70s and 80s there were provincial Liberal and conservative parties in BC in addition to Social Credit - they never took power - but they won a significant chunk of votes. When the NDP won in 1972 - the BC Conservatives took 16% of the vote and the Liberals 20% and the Socreds 30%.

In 1996, there was a rightwing BC Reform Party that took votes from the BC Liberals too.

I'm just saying that these rightwing cranks under Wilf Hanni own the rights to the name BC Conservatives and there are clearly a lot of rightwing people in Bc who don't like Campbell. If we can just get a name on the ballot in every riding in BC that is called BC Conservative - it will help siphon votes away from Campbell.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 30 October 2008 01:39 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
Its not quite that simple, all through the 50s, 60s, and 70s and 80s there were provincial Liberal and conservative parties in BC in addition to Social Credit - they never took power - but they won a significant chunk of votes. When the NDP won in 1972 - the BC Conservatives took 16% of the vote and the Liberals 20% and the Socreds 30%.

In 1996, there was a right wing BC Reform Party that took votes from the BC Liberals too.

I'm just saying that these rightwing cranks under Wilf Hanni own the rights to the name BC Conservatives and there are clearly a lot of rightwing people in Bc who don't like Campbell. If we can just get a name on the ballot in every riding in BC that is called BC Conservative - it will help siphon votes away from Campbell.


Gracie in the 80's rebuilt the Socred party and had most of the prominent liberals and tories join the party leaving only fringe parties.

I think maybe I will see about winning a BC Conservative party nomination in my riding.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm
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posted 30 October 2008 10:44 PM      Profile for Malcolm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brookmere:

Excuse me, there is nothing "bigoted" about not wanting one's tax dollars to fund a religiously segregated - and de facto racially segregated - school system.


I don't think 1948 was saying that it is inherently bigotted to oppose funding for separate religious schools. But there is some portion of those who oppose this policy whose opposition is based, not in progressive ideas of a single, secular, multi-cultural school system, but rather in prejudice against Jews, Muslims and Roman Catholics.

I don't know how big that proportion is, but it does exist. I've seen it. It is worth noting that the biggest push to end Roman Catholic school funding on the Prairies came from that rigidly non-progressive gang the Ku Klux Klan.

Sometimes people do support the right policy for the wrong reasons.


From: Regina, SK | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
madmax
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posted 31 October 2008 08:27 AM      Profile for madmax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The results for the BCGP are not good.
From: Ontario | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 31 October 2008 11:49 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is Sterk likely to stay on as leader after this, or will she step down?

An argument could be made that having a BCGP leadership contest in the next couple of months might raise the energy among the Lotus Land Vertistes.


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 31 October 2008 12:45 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The more rightwing Green that Sterk beat for the leadership has now gone over to the BC Liberals (birds of a feather flock together). I suspect she'll stay - Adriane Carr was crushed like a bug in the Surrey-Panorama Ridge byelection and that didn't stop her from staying on as leader.

i predict that in the end the so-call green sof BC will get about 7% of the vote and it will be the usual contrarian "none of the above crowd" that will always vote for a third party in BC.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
brookmere
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posted 03 November 2008 01:37 AM      Profile for brookmere     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm:
But there is some portion of those who oppose this policy whose opposition is based, not in progressive ideas of a single, secular, multi-cultural school system, but rather in prejudice against Jews, Muslims and Roman Catholics.

That makes no sense to me at all. If people were prejudiced against people of other religious backgrounds, they would want their children to be educated apart from them, not with them.

I will also point out that the existing denominational school system in Ontario constitutes de facto racial segregation, as very few Catholics in Ontario are of non-European ancestry.

Do you think the PQ government in Quebec was motivated by religious prejudice when they abolished denominational schools? How about Newfoundland?


From: BC (sort of) | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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posted 03 November 2008 04:51 AM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brookmere:

That makes no sense to me at all. If people were prejudiced against people of other religious backgrounds, they would want their children to be educated apart from them, not with them.

I will also point out that the existing denominational school system in Ontario constitutes de facto racial segregation, as very few Catholics in Ontario are of non-European ancestry.

Do you think the PQ government in Quebec was motivated by religious prejudice when they abolished denominational schools? How about Newfoundland?


One can never be sure here why someone votes in a certain way - thus voting for a policy for the wrong reasons. However, I believe there is some truth to that if one looks at where the Ontario Green Party received the most votes in the last provincial election. It would be interesting to compare where PC Bill Davies lost the majority of votes and candidates after the election in [?], after he introduced Catholic school funding in Ontario.
Sometimes, like in any type of coalition, for example, strange bedfellows are made - where two different types of groups end of having a common goal for very different reasons.


From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged

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