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Topic: Minimum wage in the hot Albertan economy.
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 24 April 2008 06:53 PM
Thanks for responding. I wanted to hear accounts like that. The help wanted signs are an index that things are tight. In a good economy some businesses that are marginal should actually close up and while this will be news it's actually healthy. Businesses that can't carry the freight of a competative wage will close and the basket of goods consumers purchase will shift. I looked at the classifieds on the Web and gas stations in Fort McMurray itself were advertising $11 an hour after 3 months.In Alberta what drives the cost of living is the price of accomodation. This is driven up by the cost of new construction, and the oil patch is keeping all the constuction workers busy. If the rest of the country were to have their labour market tighten things might be better for minimum wage earners because better housing costs. [ 24 April 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ] [ 24 April 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 24 April 2008 07:34 PM
According to the Census data at the above the Albertan towns and cities but also N. British Columbia and the territories will have labour shortages at the bottom. That is Medicine Hat, Calgary, Red Deer, Edmonton, Fort McMurray, Grande Prairie and Prince George will have tight labour markets. Also Whitehorse and Yellowknife. Lethbridge is slightly behind.In the rest of Canada the Toronto suburbs are picking up, Barrie but also the Gatineau in Quebec. I've discussed this at length with other citizens concerned about labour markets and they feel it's better just to have a recession and cool the labour markets than quench them with immigration and drive minimum wage down. Certainly labour in small business doesn't want anydown ward pressure. In the statistics (available from the city of toronto but not from statistics canada) the Toronto suburbs went to considerably higher participation in the labour force than Alberta is now in 1990. Given a few years for people to adjust they get back into the workforce. The number of people working could go up another 4% of so. So this is exciting and I'm watching for Alberta to verify this behavior. This means higher family income, more government revenues and an economy better able to with stand buffeting by recessions and world competition.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 24 April 2008 09:45 PM
Hi Polly:I was reviewing your post and the question as to just what Tim Hortons charges for a small coffee in Grande Prairie comes up. In Toronto it went up from $1.12 to $1.18 recently because of the legistated raise in minimum wage to $8.75. I have long eyed Tims Hortons as a company that could pay better with only a slight raise in prices because it is so busy. In fact Tim Hortons is a national index of minimum wage because they absoltutely moil the labour force for worst cases, English speaking immigrant woman in Toronto. The defacto minimum wage is critical to the working poor but even on rabble here the fact that it's $13 in Grande Prairie won't attract much interest. However, it's my thing. And my selling point. [ 24 April 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 26 April 2008 11:02 AM
I think that province needs to do something about the several thousand homeless Albertans living on the streets of Calgary, Edmonton etc. I read about a homeless man somewhere in Alberta recently who was beaten to death by drunken louts. With all that oil wealth in Alberta, and being given away to wealthy foreigners, there shouldn't be any homelessness, or hard-working people crammed together in small and rundown apartments, or sky-high university tuition fees. And Alberta's conservatives have no business sending Canadians to the U.S. for medical care because they can't afford to build hospitals and hire a few doctors. Alberta's conservatives have no business allowing Exxon-Imperial and friends to transform that province into a toxic waste dump while producing so little to show for it. At one time in Canada, political conservatives believed in public ownership and actually did demonstrate a keen business sense when in government. Not any more. [ 26 April 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 26 April 2008 11:01 PM
You mean that immigrants not doing well should not be called economic management? As an activist I've talked to rather a lot of immigrants and they call the good life "reality". I was talking to one today and I said a $13 minimum wage was an improvement and he said "oh, thanks". I have some heated political support from the federal Liberal backbench, it's something of a scandal.[ 26 April 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ] [ 26 April 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ] [ 26 April 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ] [ 26 April 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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KeyStone
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 15158
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posted 04 May 2008 09:00 PM
It's nice to see the general, starting wage going up and I realize there are plenty of jobs that pay a decent starting wage starting out.But it really doesn't alleviate a need for a minimum wage. Sure, Alberta is the free market dream that every government chases after (albeit at the expense of the environment) but not everyone is going to get that job that pays $13. Some people will run out of time and get stuck at a job paying $6 an hour. Some employers won't bother giving out raises to employees who have been earning $8 for the past two years. Relying on the free market to make sure everyone gets paid a decent wage may occasionally work in a fluke economic climate. But more often that not, someone slips through the cracks. And a minimum wage of $5 in a province that expensive is absurd. If all the jobs pay 13$ then what's the problem with a $10 legal minimum wage?
From: Toronto | Registered: Apr 2008
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 06 May 2008 12:26 AM
Hi Keystone:The $13 an hour in Grande Prairie is the defacto minimum wage. It's generally available and people can move to a job that pays that if their employer is really backward. In Toronto the minimum wage is actually $9 to $10. I work at a warehouse that pays that and they have to because people won't stay for less. Below that you get high turnover. The donut shops and gas stations pay a dollar less but they have to moil the immigrant work force for people who fit in. Minimum wage has always been very low in Canada and just affects the worst off and the worst businesses. It's a low fence to give a little organization to the very bottom. In fact the market actually is a better bet for minimum wage earners like myself.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 14 May 2008 03:18 PM
I waa looking at Statistics Canada data for Grande Praire and men are going much better than woman. ......Median 2005 earnings of ..... people with income Men.....$49,719 Woman...$21,640 As a percent, men earn 230% what women make. The $21,640 is not very strong showing even if a lot are voluntary part timers.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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Nam
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3472
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posted 17 May 2008 02:57 PM
quote: Originally posted by scooter: The City of Calgary is moving ahead on a "living wage" policy for companies providing services to the city. Last I heard they were suggesting $13.25 an hour.
Well, actually this initiative is stalled at the moment - council ordered some review and it will be brought back in the fall. The larger question of what the "real" minimum wage is, at least in Calgary, can be helped be some useful stats culled from StatsCan by Vibrant Communities Calgary. It shows that almost 75,000 Calgarians were earning less than $12.00/hour, and over 145,000 Calgarians were earning less than $15.00/hour. All this from a workforce of just over 560,000, so 26% of working Calgarians earn under $15.00/hour. These stats are from 2007. Quite frankly, all the streets are not paved with gold here, but you'd be hard-pressed to discover that as one must step over lots of people sleeping on the streets. [ 17 May 2008: Message edited by: Nam ]
From: Calgary-Land of corporate towers | Registered: Dec 2002
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Michael Hardner
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2595
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posted 21 May 2008 09:15 AM
Hey Fidel, quote: I think Canada is now and will continue to compete with other rich countries for well educated immigrants.
I suppose you're right, but the question is "why" ? They can't get jobs very easily here, and often end up in low paying jobs. If you're in many industries, such as legal, medical, engineering then you might as well stay home.
From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002
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Yibpl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14791
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posted 21 May 2008 02:40 PM
quote: Originally posted by Michelle: Should this thread be ... moved to the regional forum that includes Alberta, I wonder? Or should I just leave it here?
Hey, what's good for Alberta is good for Canada! Surely the most local minutia in Alberta is of interest to the nation, I mean after all WE are the center of the universe, right? Are we not the cultural, educational, intellectual hub of the country? [ 21 May 2008: Message edited by: Yibpl ] [ 21 May 2008: Message edited by: Yibpl ]
From: Urban Alberta, wishing I was in Kananaskis | Registered: Dec 2007
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 21 May 2008 03:17 PM
I'm selling tightening the labour markets to raise minimum wage. Grande Prairie and Red Deer's experience indicates it goes up from Ontario's $8.75 to $13 - a raise of 48%. Michelle is, like, this is not revolution. Revolution. And labour. Minimum wage has nothing to do with labour. We're proworker here. And Pro-Michelle. And about the difference between self absorption and moral superiority.[ 21 May 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ] [ 22 May 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ] [ 22 May 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 21 May 2008 08:19 PM
quote: Originally posted by Michael Hardner: Hey Fidel, I suppose you're right, but the question is "why" ? They can't get jobs very easily here, and often end up in low paying jobs.If you're in many industries, such as legal, medical, engineering then you might as well stay home.
I think part of the answer comes from a Ryerson Polytechnique study on Asia's "turtles" emigres to Canada. Since the mid 1990's or so, somewhere around 650, 000 first and even second generation immigrants have gone back to Asia, and many of them are well educated. The returnees cited similar reasons for leaving. One young couple came here from China with degrees in-hand, economics if I recall. He received a scholarship to go to Boston University for graduate studies. After that they moved to British Columbia and found zero opportunities in their field. They took up mushroom farming, but that flopped. The same Chinese-Canadian couple said they loved B.C. and Canada in general for its natural beauty and wide-open spaces. Nothing happening though, so they moved back to China. And there were similar hard-luck stories. Since 2005, Canada has become a hewer and drawer economy, once again. So much for NAFTA. We need real leadership in this country, and as Duncan Cameron said, we need a Keynesian revival if we are to afford investments necessary for people and green infrastructure. In other words, those things which will support and drive a viable future economy. I think we need a competitive electoral system before we are able to make Canada's a top ten most competitive economy. Right now with our dual old line party system of governance, there is no incentive to create transparent government, and no incentive for Canada to be anything more than Uncle Sam's gas tank. Our big-huge country is just a vast repository of energy and mineral wealth for corporate America to raid at will. Our's has become a weak branch plant economy since FTA-NAFTA.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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bruce_the_vii
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13710
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posted 22 May 2008 01:42 AM
quote:
[ 21 May 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ] [ 22 May 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ][/qb]
[ 22 May 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006
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