As ladies should make intelligent choices (as he said) I made the choice of not sharing with him.

Asking for it.

let's consider the reality of the crime.

Rapes do happen as random attacks when a women, and in bars, but the reality; the notion of "asking for it" could mean she looked at you the wrong way. Rapists like using beliefs like this to excuse their crimes. Many women are sexually abused before a consenting age, and are more often raped by husbands, boyfriends, and acquaintances more often than in bars.

He had some idea rape is about hunting the weakest of the herd; and that weakness to him meant that she was carefree, and a party girl. A stereotype that is used to blame rape victims over and over. I explained that the use of this stereotype is the old school way to only keep women scared from expressing themselves in a public space. It also is a stereotype the rapist will use to excuse their crime. He kept hitting on this situation, and how he knew of these two girls who "asked for it"

He was disgusted, by the sluts, and what he referred to as "Prosti-tots" (under aged sluts), and the debauchery he saw in bars sometimes. And these girls were asking to get nailed (I am sensing anger issues).

Ironically the two girls he thought were sluts, and "asking to get nailed" he had dated. Um so you criticize them for their choices, but then you date them?Interesting. You like what you think is not your equal?

I didn't agree with his ideals as being the norm because they only fuel negative stereotype that gets heavily skewed by rapists. He had commented ladies needed to understand never to go out alone, and then leaped into a completely hypothetical situation of being careless and "asking for it." Since I was only trying to point out the underlying problem with his beliefs, I must be that carefree slut who needs to be beat over the head the rules of bar hopping, to help me to stop "asking for it." He flamed me called me stupid, and insulted me.

I didn't mention to the moron, I drink once in a blue moon when I go out. I certainly don't drink to get drunk. I am the sober girl in my circle of friends who will be telling them when to leave a rowdy bar because the men there are stupid. I will be the one pulling some drunken buddy off my friend because he is an idiot. Yes tell me how I deserve it because I apparently I don't know how to operate myself in a public space.

He mentioned that women need to stop acting like sluts so as to not fuel the bottom feeders of our societies. Yes, but is it his comments, or their behavior that is fodder for the bottom feeders. I do not like the excuse of asking for it, because it can be applied in so many unfair ways by the rapist.

Human Predators are an interesting breed because they do not always like the weakest of the herd; they like a challenge. Excuses like she was "asking for it", and she was "carefree" and up being heavily skewed to justify the rapists' crimes. And hence why they stay in relationships and manipulate their partners. He made an interesting comment that his ex got raped. He excused the guy because he admitted he just couldn't stop. He said his ex-girlfriend got hot and heavy with the guy and because he took her top off he "couldn't control himself" and ignored her and raped her. He felt it was wrong but he did little to the guy who raped her.

I thought it was interesting how he was angry at his two exes rapists, but then also was angry at them for "asking for it" by letting their guard down. He criticized the one ex for accepting a ride from an acquaintance who raped her (she wasn't raped in the car either). He then criticized his other ex for getting drunk one night, and getting gang raped and pummeled by three guys.

Now with the one ex who got a little drunk, and it can be argued that she let her guard down. However interestingly enough that he was still angrily shaming them and calling them whores 10 years later after he stopped seeing them. So you have a right to feel angry, and shame them? It's a powerful to rage against her rapists, and control her at the same time I guess. It also does not allow them to come self actualization after such a crime has been committed against them. I could point out the guy's unconsciously sadistic ways but i declined.

The guy angrily flamed me when I responded, and filled up my in box. He actually started to understand my post, but only after angrily replying twice with insults and all. I had given one insult when he put me in a stereotypical situation of "asking for it." He was upset I declined to share his idea of an "intelligent debate" and blocked him.

I told him he was a hypocrit for criticizing "whores" and then admitting to dating them. i said "so, you like what disgusts you."

I suggested maybe trying therapy rather than blogging.

I also said he obviously feels no responsibility for anything he says and maybe he should start taking responsibility before spewing garbage.

geesh

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

quote:

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Now with the one ex who got a little drunk, and it can be argued that she let her guard down.

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
Wow, I was just reading on another bodybuilding forum I'm on the argument that rape is natural and a normal part of human society.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
I can't believe bodybuilders would hold such an opinion. They're usually such sensitive, gentle souls.

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quote:

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Originally posted by paxamillion:
Rape is not about sex. It is about power. There is nothing normal about that.

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There is some valid arguement but I guess it's to hard for him to think of world without women asking for rape.

I dont have enough time to properly educate you, On the purpose and intent of my rant.

But, ill do what i can.

You clearly didnt get it.

Read it again.

I am condemning a woman, Who CHOOSES, to make as many uneducated "risky", Dangerous actions as she possibly can, And expect NOT to attract the unwanted attention.

A rapist, Is a bottom feeder on society, I point out. that there is no excuse for their inability to differentiate between right and wrong. Im not excusing them at all, I would like to see them tried and be-headed for their crime.

But, I am pointing out i have no sympathy for a girl who throws caution to the wind, and ends up being a victim.

I also point out, that i know this doesnt apply to ALL victims of rape.

I am segregating certain cases, your scenarios, appear to me, as those that fall under the "innocent" type, As in you didnt make mistakes, You just crossed paths with the wrong type of guy. For that, I do feel for you..

But had you lead that gentleman on for weeks, flirted, Made out with, flashed, and did just about everything you possibly could to arouse him, And then left.. by yourself walking down a dark alleyway, without a single ounce of caution, and got raped...

Well no offence.

Your an idiot.

You should know better than that.

That would be like a cop walking into a shootout without protective armour, or a gun, and saying..

"Stop, you cant do this".

Hes gonna get shot.

Hes gonna die. And anyone in any situation who disregards the simplest of measures designed to PROTECT them, and ensure, or further ensure their own safety, deserves to know what happens when they are careless.

If i fall from a building at work, And become a parapelegic, I deserve it.
I know how to use ropes, and i have the safety gear.. if i choose not to use it, i deserve the accident.

Re-read the blog.
And then try again to tear me a new asshole.

You missed the point, And clearly your personal opinions misled your brain from understanding the underlying point I was making.

Which was.

Be careful, and dont provoke, Have caution, dont be careless, Or foolish. Maintain some of your intelligence in your evening out. And this will ensure you go home safe.

If you dont, dont expect my sympathy, or anyone elses.
And to be more specific, I am outlining the specific cases of two of my ex girlfriends, who were raped in very preventable circumstances.

What was their mistake?

They didnt think it could happen to them... they thought that the could dress as provacative as they chose, and flirt as much as they wanted... and get drunk, and the guy they met 10 minutes earlier would be a decent guy and drive them home.. (In order to save the $10 cab fare, one of these 2, took a ride with a total stranger alone.)

If you want to hear the entire situation with them, ask.

Maybe then you will get the point.

When i get home i will re-read my blog, and maybe re-write it in crayon, and use smaller words, So as i can make my point a little clearer for the next reader.

Ill also re-read your blog tags. And elaborate this, if i need to.

He responded to my reply when I asked what his deal was behind saying prosti-tots asked to be raped.

I included a vague description of something that happened to me and how i felt too ashamed to report it; I was shamed, and I was told it was nothing. I told his shaming and saying women ask for it only compounds the problem for survivors trying to speak up.

I called BS on his blog so that upset him. Hence his reply.

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

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You like what you think is not your equal?

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I think when leechi asked the question she supposed that the male in question considers the "slutty girls" beneath him, not his equal, though he claims to have dated them.

My sense is that he doesn't see them as equals but differently than that perceived by leechi. I think he feels he is sexually inadequate around girls he perceives to be sexually aware and confident, or slutty.

His male ego is threatened by them and rape is a means to exert his masculinity, no matter how frail, over them.

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It is a tool of hate and oppression.

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Absolutely correct.

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

I blocked him. He was on a psycho tirade. I just put up what his first email said to me. I sort of skimmed over the rest. No time, no interest to read them.

Too bad he feels I am the one who needs education.
[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

There's a world of difference between intelligently avoiding risk and taking responsibility for a rape. While I wouldn't condemn anyone who advised women to protect themselves, failure to do this by no means implies any degree of responsibility on the part of the victim.

It's just that when I start reading that stuff, all I can hear from him is a desire for self-destruction, which he might or might not act out upon others.

I found Makwa's comment above interesting, and I think we could go on discussing that psychology usefully.

But I don't know how useful it is just to keep listening to some guy who hates himself and therefore takes it out on whatever part of the rest of the world he can.

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: skdadl ]

Just wanted to post an example of what he wrote me. Sadly this was on a blog, and a part of the guy's dating profile. I am sure he will only attract women who are not educated enough to see his attitude and behavior are psychotic.

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think of it like so - while I'd probably think that someone waving $20 bills around in a high crime area at night was not very smart for avoiding risk, his getting robbed is by no means his fault.

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Not a useful analogy. Unless you consider the world inside and out of a home a "high crime area" for women in which we are waving our "$20 bills."

We mostly get raped at home. By those we know, and often love. Some of us go out, have fun, get drunk and are raped outside of the home, maybe by someone we don't know so well, or don't know at all.

quote:

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Originally posted by Makwa:
This bit of quasi sociology/psychology has always irritated me a bit, because I think it is a reductionist approach to the issue. ... I would argue that rape is not only about 'sex', it is about empowered and brutalized sex, which for many men, is the sine qua non of sexualized fantasy.

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It sounds like he's taking the concept of risk aversion, which is important to consider, and overexaggerating it to the point where it becomes the woman's sole responsibility to not make herself a target for rape.

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I totally agree there, and it frustrated him that I refused to debate this.

He had also thrown in the way of dress, and the use of attitude women use to attract men as a factor. Now use of attitude I can understand in attracting the "wrong kind of person"; and in his case just look at how he seems to attract women through some sort of wish fulfillment through his blog/ dating profile. I obviously don't think some women have a wish fulfillment to be raped, but in a lot of cases women who experience childhood violence sometimes repeat the patterns later in life. I have heard of victims who say they put themselves in potentially dangerous situations as a way to angrily tempt fate, and sometimes to "make right" to avenge what happened in the past. Again I am not justifying women "asking for it" especially because a lot of women who do this are in need of recovery from their own issues.

I tried to ask him to consider other things, like the ways in which we expect women to dress in ways to be considered attractive and worthy (ie especially for young women- too short skirts, ultra low riders), and then we ( and he did) call them whores for how they look, and suggest they ask to be raped; we then also expect them to act sexually aggressive, and then condem them again for being raped. I tried to get him thinking on the path to how mixed, schizophrenic messages sent to both men and women can be a factor.

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]

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Originally posted by leechi:
I totally agree there, and it frustrated him that I refused to debate this.

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quote:

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I obviously don't think some women have a wish fulfillment to be raped, but in a lot of cases women who experience childhood violence sometimes repeat the patterns later in life. I have heard of victims who say they put themselves in potentially dangerous situations as a way to angrily tempt fate, and sometimes to "make right" to avenge what happened in the past. Again I am not justifying women "asking for it" especially because a lot of women who do this are in need of recovery from their own issues.

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
I can't believe bodybuilders would hold such an opinion. They're usually such sensitive, gentle souls.
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and then, someone else came up with this deep thought:

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Would this explain Ah-nolds run ins with sexual harrasment?

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
Wow, I was just reading on another bodybuilding forum I'm on the argument that rape is natural and a normal part of human society.

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Well, it is both natural and normal, but that still doesn't make it right.

Oh - and another thought. I wonder what he'd say to the prospect of a gay man raping him because he wore jeans that were too tight. Should've known he was asking for it....

[ 05 April 2006: Message edited by: Doug ]

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Well, it is both natural and normal

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quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

You mean like torture and murder?

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Duke lacrosse coach resigns

Duke men’s lacrosse coach Mike Pressler resigned today, shortly after the unsealing of a warrant related to a Durham police investigation of a reported rape at an offcampus party attended by members of Pressler’s team.

and

The documents made public today included the text of an e-mail message sent from the e-mail account of team member Ryan McFadyen, a sophomore defenseman from Mendham, N.J. In the message, sent about 30 minutes after an escort service stripper told police on March 14 she had been raped at the party, the writer talks of hiring strippers for another party and killing them.

“Tomorrow night, after tonights show, ive decided to have some strippers over,” the message read. “However there will be no nudity. i plan on killing bitches as soon as the walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off.”

and the backstory

The actions follow allegations by a woman hired to dance at a lacrosse team house party March 13 that she was raped by three players. No criminal charges have been filed in the case, as investigators await results of DNA samples. McFadyen's name does not match the three names the woman gave to police as those of her attackers.

Brodhead and Alleva had faced mounting criticism for a slow reaction to the allegations by the dancer at the party, where witnesses said they also saw drunken members of the squad shout racial slurs at a passerby, and at the woman as she fled. All 46 team members under investigation are white, and the alleged victim and another dancer are black. The team's only black member has been eliminated as a suspect, since the accuser says the alleged attackers were white.

[ 06 April 2006: Message edited by: Yst ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
I know what you mean, but I still wouldn't want to describe deviance and sadism as being "natural and normal" like we are discussing teenage sexual attraction.

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A friend of mine dated a guy for a year and a half; he came across like he was Mr. Wonderful- sensitive, brilliant, funny, cute.....

Until he started acting a bit strange with internet porn stuff. To make a long story short- he put up pictures of her on a porn site , without consent.

He claimed her insecurity about the whole thing was based on her fear of being raped by a stranger from the net. She asserted that no- the problem is you- you have disregarded my no and used me as an object. He had peversely used her image as an object of pornogrophy, not erotica, in a non-consensual way.

The problem of rape is so common that even seemingly intelligent men start to cross lines because they are taught in so many ways sex is to be used for their own selfish gain. Pornography demonstrates this that women are plasticized unfeeling objects to be used at their every wim and fancy.

And even the man who posted to me claimed he was evidently so intelligent (and superior to me) even though he was using rare occurances to suggest women "asked for it." He was again, like my friend's boyfriend, suggesting that the problem is not his responsibility, and even went so far to go fishing for an excuse for rape. His related "true life" examples were sad and inexcuseable. Those women were raped. The only thing demonstrated was they were attacked by men with poor impulse control, and who were looking to attack someone. If a woman stops getting drunk is that going to prevent rape? Or is abolishing the attitude out there that a women asks for it when she is drunk going to prevent rape?

Even if he is not a rapist he is still using rape excuses as a sick self empowering need, and thus perpetuating it.

And as the saying goes "Pornography is the theory; rape is the practice."

[ 06 April 2006: Message edited by: leechi ]