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Author Topic: Darfur
Critical Mass
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posted 26 July 2004 01:37 PM      Profile for Critical Mass        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why the silence?
From: King & Bay (downtown Toronto) - I am King of the World!!! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 26 July 2004 01:44 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Because the UN is broke, and it is hard to figure out how to fix it while the U.S. is still in rampant imperial mode, and the other members of the Security Council are all being decadent in their own ways.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 26 July 2004 01:55 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
both the EU and the US are beginning to push for sanctions and action, but 10 years on from rwanda, it's been 8 months of "tut-tutting". there's an interesting letter in the guardian today about darfur may have much to do with the encroachment of the sahara, and struggles over control of water, i.e. it's a portent of future situations.
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 26 July 2004 09:28 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not to mention the USA has blown a shitload of its credibility censuring the Sudan over Darfour when US officials condoned gross abuse of Iraqis.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Critical Mass
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posted 26 July 2004 09:59 PM      Profile for Critical Mass        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's been called the world's worst humanitarian crisis but we (non-US people) don't talk about it because the US (one player among hundreds of players) has blown its credibility in another countrynot related to Irak? I am not sure I follow.
From: King & Bay (downtown Toronto) - I am King of the World!!! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 26 July 2004 10:44 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who says we don't talk about it?
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 27 July 2004 01:14 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass:
It's been called the world's worst humanitarian crisis but we (non-US people) don't talk about it because the US (one player among hundreds of players) has blown its credibility in another countrynot related to Irak? I am not sure I follow.

Way to not follow!

I'm saying that the USA will have less success convincing the Sudan to do anything because of the blown credibility.

Pay attention next time!


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 27 July 2004 02:55 AM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amnesty International, not surprisingly, is talking about Darfur:

http://www.amnesty.ca/take_action/actSudan.php


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aRoused
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posted 27 July 2004 06:04 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oxfam has sent at least one planeload of aid from here, and has started its own relief campaign. I'm sure Save the Children is onboard at some stage. Also, the weekend papers had articles opining whether the UK would send troops, and whether the Sudan would let them in. There is a certain 'The UK hates all Muslims' sentiment radiating out of the Sudan in oppositino to the prospect of the SAS popping in to stop the genocide.
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liminal
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posted 27 July 2004 10:21 AM      Profile for liminal        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
looks like France has taken some initiative.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=58&story_id=9915


From: the hole I just crawled out of | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Critical Mass
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posted 27 July 2004 10:50 AM      Profile for Critical Mass        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I read somewhere the EU will press the UN Security Council for sanctions. Good move.

P.S. Should we invent an icon for "legitimate question, I want to know something and don't have the answer"? Are we supposed to be "experts" at world politics before we are allowed to post questions?

[ 27 July 2004: Message edited by: Critical Mass ]


From: King & Bay (downtown Toronto) - I am King of the World!!! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 27 July 2004 11:08 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you type in "legitimate question, don't know the answer, what do you all think", it would go a ways towards that...no?
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Critical Mass
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posted 27 July 2004 11:28 AM      Profile for Critical Mass        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some of the regulars or veterans around here just seem to me to be a bit suspicious sometimes. As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sometimes, a question is just a question... What do I now about Darfur? The UN calls it the worst crisis in the world today, one could assume it would gather more attention than it has received.


From: King & Bay (downtown Toronto) - I am King of the World!!! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 27 July 2004 11:49 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of the reasons, I think, that sympathetic people are following along but don't have much to say is that we are lacking full context. For me, knowing something of Sudan's history would help to clarify political thoughts. I'm wondering, eg, just how and when and by whom those borders got drawn in the first place. There are obviously several "nations" within the modern state (a familiar problem in Africa and elsewhere), and they would seem to have historical resentments (at least) against each other. How was that set up?

Those are my questions.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 27 July 2004 12:11 PM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass:
What do I now about Darfur?


quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass:
What do I now about Darfur?

Critical, The first thing to do is to urge Canada to do more. Send a letter to Pierre Pettigrew our minister of Foreign Affairs, cc to Prime Minister Paul Martin and to your local MP.

All Letters can be sent to…

House of Commons
Parliament Buildings
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
K1A 0A6

No stamps are needed for letters to the House of Commons.

Second best is to send an email.
Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew is at [email protected]
Prime Minister Paul Martin is at [email protected]

A complete list of MPs and their contact info is available here
http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/SenatorsMembers_house.asp?Language=E&Parl=37&Ses=1&Sect=hoccur

Anyone who’s already contacted the Minister of Foreign Affairs, it’s time for a follow-up, as we have a new minister.

Critical, You don’t have to get fancy. Something like the following is effective…

Dear Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew,

Congratulations on your appointment to minister of Foreign Affairs.

As your first priority, I urge you to live up to Canada’s international obligations to prevent genocide and to exert our strongest efforts toward putting a stop to the on-going atrocities in the Darfur region of Sudan.

In particular, I urge you to support armed UN intervention and to volunteer Canadian troops to safeguard international humanitarian assistance to affected areas and to act as peace keepers.

Each passing day brings more deaths. Please act quickly.

Thank you.

Yours truly…


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 28 July 2004 10:21 AM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass:
What do I now about Darfur?


You can also donate money to help mollify the humanitaran crisis. And you can get politically involved.

Ve'ahavta is a local humanitarian organization which is raising money for Sudan.

It's affiliated with CASTS - Canadians Against Slavery and Torture in Sudan. Sudan has been a humanitarian disaster for decades. CASTS has been active trying to raise awareness for some time and is affiliated with the Sudanese community here in Toronto.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 01 August 2004 12:37 AM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What do I now about Darfur?[/QB]

Your next step is to write to the opposition parties urging them to urge the Liberal government to action.

Write to Stockwell Day, Foreign Affairs critic for the Official Opposition, cc Stephen Harper, Leader of the opposition, and also to Alexa McDonough, Foreign Affairs critic for the NDP, cc Jack Layton, Leader of the NDP.

It may feel strange allying yourself with Stockwell Day. That's okay, it's what people mean when they say politics makes strange bedfellows. Just close your eyes and pretend his name is Doris.

As always, a printed letter (in addition to or instead of) an e-mail is more effective because MPs get far less letter mail.

Letters to the opposition are also more fun because you get to flay the Liberals. For example...

The Honourable Audrey McDonough
Foreign Affairs Critic for the NDP

Dear Ms. McDonough,

I am writing to you urge you to use your position as foreign affairs critic to push the Liberal government to take serious action to help protect civilians in the Darfur region of Sudan and to ensure that sufficient humanitarian aid is promptly provided.

Canada should be a world leader in this effort. Instead, Pierre Pettigrew plays at semantics, afraid to utter the word “genocide,” lest Canada feel obliged to actually do something.

As you are undoubtedly aware, the Darfur region has been subjected to unspeakable horror. Thousands of Black Africans have been killed by northern troops and Arab militias. Countless more have been tortured, enslaved, and gang-raped while their villages are torched, crops destroyed, and wells poisoned.

The Convention of the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide defines genocide as “deliberate action calculated to destroy in part or whole a specific ethnic group, race, religion [or] nationality."

The deliberate wanton murdering, together with destruction of livelihoods, homes, food supplies, and water is nothing less than a contrived famine to exterminate as many Black in western Sudan as possible. Surely, it is patently obvious that this is both ethnic cleansing and genocide.

As a party to the Genocide Convention and as a nation that prides itself on its commitment to human rights, Canada must take immediate action.

I do not ask you to call for sanctions against Sudan. Sanctions rarely work and take far too long to implement when each passing day brings more deaths.

Rather, Canada should immediately seek allies for a multi-national force to protect civilians in Darfur and to secure the area for robust humanitarian aid.

The African Union is sending a small force to the region to protect its cease-fire observers and has indicated it may be willing to extend protection to civilians, as well. Canada should immediately encourage to the AU to expand their presence and provide money and logistical aid to the AU’s efforts.

In addition, Canada should volunteer its own troop for a multinational force to protect the civilians of Darfur and should help form a coalition of nations willing to join such a force.

Most importantly, I urge you to call for Canada to promote a multi-national intervention even if the UN fails to authorize one. If Rwanda taught us anything, it is that we must not allow the vested interests of nations on the Security Council to obstruct our efforts to prevent genocide.

It is shameful that ten years after Rwanda, both Canada and the UN are again sitting on their hands. Please use your good offices to prod our Liberal government to take meaningful action now.

Yours sincerely…


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 03 August 2004 12:50 AM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Richard Gwyn wrote a good piece in the Star the other day....

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1091182987909&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907618300

Toronto Star, Aug 1, 2004

Canada waffling while Darfur burns
RICHARD GWYN

As seen from Washington, according to the U.S. Congress and to Democrat presidential candidate John Kerry, what's happening in Sudan is genocide. Drastic action is therefore required.

In London, British Prime Minister Tony Blair has neither used nor denied the word genocide. Far more valuable, Blair has said he's prepared to send 5,000 soldiers to halt the killing.

In Ottawa, according to Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew, it is not genocide but rather "a horrible situation" that could lead to "humanitarian consequences that are absolutely unacceptable."


Gwyn accurately calls Pettigrew's words "gobbledygook.” He concludes his piece, thus...

"Ottawa's response to this tragedy has been shameful — timid, legalistic, distant.
We have allowed the U.S., and Britain (indeed, Australia is also talking about sending troops) to do all the heavy lifting.

"Darfur is one of those foreign policy issues that determine whether a country wants to do good or merely to feel good.

"So far, we're strictly a feel-good player while the U.S. is actually trying to make things better."


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
frandroid_atreides
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posted 07 August 2004 12:50 PM      Profile for frandroid_atreides   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Why the silence?

Moreover, why the silence from the activist community? Is Genocide not as interesting as Globalisation?

I'd like to do something more than send a letter to my MP. Is ANYONE organising around this? What about the Sudanese community in Toronto?


From: Toronto, Arrakis | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
1st Person
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posted 07 August 2004 01:18 PM      Profile for 1st Person        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To get an idea of U.N. intransigence in these type of situations, I recommend Gen. Romeo Dallaire's book "Shake Hands with the Devil - the Failure of Humanity in Rwanda". The complete failure of the U.N. beurocracy, linked to the unwillingness of countries with capable militaries to get involved, means that genocide can happen.

I agree with armed intervention to stop genocide. But you have to have your eyes open if you're going to call for that. Canada doesn't have much capability now that we have a drastically diminished military force - one that is already spread too thin and that is lacking in proper equipment. Intervening in Sudan has the potential for a real armed struggle like in Somalia. Do you have the stomach for that? Are you willing to see an increase in military expenditures so that our forces can do what we ask them to do?


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MyName
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posted 08 August 2004 12:14 PM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
see G&M
"To our great shame, “Canada doesn’t do Africa.”
By GERALD CAPLAN

"Some seven weeks into the 1994 Rwanda genocide, perhaps 500,000 Rwandan Tutsis had been murdered, maimed or raped by Hutu extremists determined to win sole control over the tiny nation. That an unmitigated genocide was in process was doubted by no one, and acknowledged formally by no Western government.

"To that date, like the rest of the world, the Canadian government had been a passive bystander to the Rwandan tragedy, despite pleas for support from Canadian general Roméo Dallaire. Gen. Dallaire was the commander of the United Nations mission to Rwanda. As he reports in his memoir, two senior Canadian officials -- Robert Fowler, then deputy minister of defence, and Admiral Larry Murray -- flew into the country for a 24-hour visit to assess the situation for themselves.

"That's all the Dallaire book tells us. In fact, Mr. Fowler was so shaken by what he learned that he poured his heart into a 17-page cri de coeur, pleading with the Chrétien government to send Gen. Dallaire the reinforcements he desperately needed. Mr. Fowler's passionate memo was duly passed along the government's chain of command.

"When it was last seen, there was a handwritten comment in the margin: "Canada doesn't do Africa." Canada never intervened to help stop this most easily preventable of genocides…

"...A resolution was at last passed at the Security Council giving the government of Sudan another month before consideration is given to taking action of some kind, some time after that. Meantime, more die in Dafur.

"Reputable voices describe a genocide in progress or imminent, while the world depends on a treacherous government of war criminals to stop the killing, burning and rape.
Where is Canada's voice?

"There is mostly the conspicuous sound of silence. We are apparently fighting the scourge of genocide with sporadic, even rare, press releases -- two from the Department of Foreign Affairs in the past month and one from CIDA..."

[ 09 August 2004: Message edited by: MyName ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 08 August 2004 12:21 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This column in today's NY Times argues that the international community is oversimplifying the conflict in Darfur, and is in danger of making things worse.

quote:
It is also bands like Mr. Khaber's that expose three myths of one of the worst humanitarian crises - that the Janjaweed are the sole source of trouble and are acting only as proxies for Khartoum; that the conflict pits light-skinned Arabs against black Africans; and that the Sudanese government can immediately end the war whenever it wishes. Until the international community puts aside these simplifications, no sustainable solution can emerge.

Oh, gee. Imagine that. Colin Powell is making politically loaded arguments at the UN. We are so surprised.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 08 August 2004 12:25 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MyName, you are causing severe sidescroll for some of us.

Could you please take that URL to tinyurl.com, run it though their little box, and then edit your post above using their short version instead? Thanks very much.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 08 August 2004 12:26 PM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by frandroid_atreides:
[QB]"I'd like to do something more than send a letter to my MP."

Well, I hope you at least do that much, as it's probably the single most effective thing you can do. (Note, though, that you want to send the letter to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, with copies to your MP and to the PM.)

Next, you should arrange a personal meeting with your MP to (politley) share your anger that Canada is doing next to nothing in Darfur.

There was a protest at Queen's Park in July, but really protests don't do much good. To get much media coverage, you need a BIG protest or violence, and violence of course hurts whatever cause it's associated with.
You want to do somethine really? Write the Minister of Foreign Affairs.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 08 August 2004 12:37 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That column should maybe be taken with a grain of salt too, though. I'm suspicious of any article that speaks of "age-old vendettas." It sounds suspiciously like "those people are always fighting each other," a traditional excuse for looking the other way & a standard trope of empire (We are peaceful, They are warlike). The column argues against intervention on the grounds that it may make rebel groups more intransigent in peace talks:

quote:
As despicable as Sudan's regime is, the international community may wish to restrain from setting early deadlines for intervention. Such deadlines only encourage rebel intransigence in pursuing peace deals, as last month's unsuccessful talks in Ethiopia proved. With outside action threatened, there is little incentive for the rebels to negotiate a lasting cease-fire.

Without deadlines, there is no incentive for the Janjaweeed militias to stop their killings. It seems to be ignoring the element of power: the militias and the Sudanese government have it, the rebels and especially the people facing genocide have much less, or none. Sudan is not an evenly-balanced equation. To me, the best hope still lies with a leadership role for the African Union, but its 300 soldiers there are not enough to stop the killing.


From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 08 August 2004 12:45 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Points taken, swallow. I admit that I finished that column wondering, So what do we do?

I'm not sure that a note of caution is a bad idea, though, on this continent.


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jeff house
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posted 08 August 2004 12:53 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is pretty damn hard to know what exactly is happening in Darfur. I have a lot of respect for Gerry Kaplan's knowledge of Africa, but he bewails Canada's lack of action saying:

quote:
Reputable voices describe a genocide in progress or imminent, while the world depends on a treacherous government of war criminals to stop the killing, burning and rape.

Obviously, a UN decision to stop a genocide has to be assisted. But "killing, burning and rape" occur in many parts of the world; I don't want Canada, or Canada and a few powers, declaring a genocide and then sending troops.

Just because Rwanda was a clear case doesn't mean Darfur is.

A healthy foreign policy maintains a strong sense that we cannot save the world.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 09 August 2004 12:24 AM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by swallow:
To me, the best hope still lies with a leadership role for the African Union, but its 300 soldiers there are not enough to stop the killing.

The African Union is now talking about sending 2,000 troops - or at least Rwanda and Nigeria have eahc offered to send 1,000 each. The plan hasn't been approved yet by the AU.

Also, the AU can't even afford that initial 300 - the Netherlands are paying for them.

"In Ottawa, Foreign Affairs Department spokesman Andrew Hannan said Canada is concerned about the crisis and has donated money to the AU, but would not earmark additional funds for a military force. "What they do with the money is up to them," he said." (G&M Aug 5)

Meaning they've thrown in a couple nickels but they don't want to get involved.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 09 August 2004 12:52 AM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeff house:
[QB]Obviously, a UN decision to stop a genocide has to be assisted."

The UN shows every intention of doing nothing. Russia and China both have heavy investments in Sudanese oil, so Sudan has two vetos at its disposal.

"But "killing, burning and rape" occur in many parts of the world."

Yeah, but there have also been 40,000 plus people killed and a million forced from their homes. (these figures are all out of date by the way, meaning that while no one knows what the true figures are, they're certainly higher than the ones regularly cited in the news.

Also, Sudan has obstructed humanitatian aid, which cerainly suggests they'd like to see these people dead.

"Just because Rwanda was a clear case doesn't mean Darfur is."

But will it become clear before the dead number in the hundreds of thousands? The idea is to prevent genocide, not just aid the survivors.

"A healthy foreign policy maintains a strong sense that we cannot save the world."

And a healthier foreign policy saves the bits that it can. Preventing genocide in Darfur is highly do-able. Not for Canada by itself but acting with others.

What would it hurt Canada to endorse a larger scale intervention by the AU and offer to pick up part of the tab?

And if Canada supports the AU putting 2,000 troops in Sudan, I think we ought to volunteer some of our own. Yemen's offered. Australia and Britain have offered.

If Canada doesn't stand against genocide, what do we stand against?


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
MyName
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posted 12 August 2004 01:33 PM      Profile for MyName        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you're wondering what's happening in Darfur, here's the opening paragraps of a detailed update and analysis...

http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/s04080050.htm

Tuesday, August 10, 2004

KHARTOUM'S RESPONSIBILITY FOR MASS EXECUTIONS
Halting Genocide in Darfur, Preserving the North-South Peace Agreement: Both Require Removal of Khartoum's National Islamic Front from Power

By Michael Ireland
Chief Correspondent, ASSIST News Service

NORTHAMPTON, MASSACHUSETTS (ANS) -- As the UN Security Council and political leadership continue to prove wholly inadequate to the crisis in Darfur, as humanitarian capacity slips further behind rapidly expanding humanitarian need, and as the international community badly fumbles over how to respond to massive genocidal destruction, the Khartoum regime's remorseless engine of human death and suffering continues to function with terrifying efficiency, writes Eric Reeves of Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts, who is an expert on Sudan.

“Though most of the 2,000 who now die daily are succumbing to disease and the effects of starvation (and most of these invisibly), a recent and extraordinarily revealing report from the UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial executions gives us a much clearer view of Khartoum's direct involvement in violent mass human destruction,” Reeves says.

Reeves says UN Special Rapporteur Asma Jahangir “minces no words” in her final report or in her public comments: “It is beyond doubt that the Government of the Sudan is responsible for extrajudicial and summary executions of large numbers of people over the last several months in the Darfur region, as well as in the Shilook [also Shilluk] Kingdom in Upper Nile State [southern Sudan],'' said Asma Jahangir, the U.N. investigator on executions, in a report based on a 13-day visit to the region in June." (Associated Press, August 6, 2004)

"Jahangir said there was 'overwhelming evidence' that the killing was carried out 'in a coordinated manner by the armed forces of the government and government-backed militias. They appear to be carried out in a systematic manner,'' (Associated Press, August 6, 2004), Reeves said.

Reeves says that Jahangir also takes a larger view of the consequences for Darfur of what a previous UN human rights investigative team called a “reign of terror":

"'The current humanitarian disaster unfolding in Darfur, for which the government is largely responsible, has put millions of civilians at risk, and it is very likely that many will die in the months to come as a result of starvation and disease,' said Jahangir, a Pakistani lawyer." (Associated Press, August 6, 2004)....


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
1st Person
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posted 12 August 2004 05:01 PM      Profile for 1st Person        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"And if Canada supports the AU putting 2,000 troops in Sudan, I think we ought to volunteer some of our own. Yemen's offered. Australia and Britain have offered.

If Canada doesn't stand against genocide, what do we stand against?"

Agreed. So will you support proper funding of our armed forces so that we can do these things? That's something that everyone is conveniantly ignoring. It's significant because our forces are already stretched too thin. For the next year, Canadian Forces will stop participating in most peacekeeping missions world wide to give them an opportunity to rest, train and re-group.

When I was on a UN peacekeping mission in Cyprus back in '89, the Canadian Forces was at about 85,000 strong. Now we're at about 50,000 and participating in more missions that are more dangerous, and troops are often only getting 6 months at home before being shipped back out. That is not sustainable.


From: Kingston | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 12 August 2004 05:14 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My question is this:
What resources are in the Sudan, and what foreign-owned corporations are exploiting those resources, and whose side are they on?

Answers to that might clarify a few things. Including possibly the column cited, which sounds quite a bit like some apologetics for the government of Colombia that I've run across.

Oh, and possibly, "Who is selling whom the weapons with which to do the killing, and where did the buyers get the money?"

[ 12 August 2004: Message edited by: Rufus Polson ]


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
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posted 13 August 2004 02:55 PM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think Rufus raises some key points that we need to develop, before we rush into any hasty judgements on the Darfur situation.

In terms of resources, of course, there is oil in the south; does anyone remember Talisman and the apparently concerted actions of the central government to clear areas where oil exploration was anticipated?

My big question is, why NOW? Since the place has been a festering sore for decades, there must obviously be some hidden agenda at work here....interests being served, etc. Why do we suddenly hear about Darfur NOW?

When three million or so perished in the Congo a few years ago, not a peep.

A bait and switch game to get our minds off of Iraq? And since Sudan was or still is on Uncle Sam's list of terrorist states, that may be a factor. We have, after all, a mainly Arab central government with all those things us freedom-loving Christians love to hate: a penchant for beating on their poor black folk, incidentally often Christian, a taste for overripe fundamentalist Islamic rhetoric, etc. Poor as dirt and virtually defenseless, a veritable Grenada in the making!

Perfect!

But as I say, not much new about any of that, so WHY NOW?

And the relatively recent ascension of a hardline Islamic government has aggravated pre-existing tensions, no question. They're probably pushing to have Sharia applied across the land. Again.

But deeper causes behind the Darfur refugee situation itself? Like so much of that continent we can go back to the initial boundaries imposed by colonialists in the 19th century. These 'united' ancient Islamic Arab cultures in the desert north - whose lineage extends back to the Mediterranean Egyptians and the ancient kingdoms of Kush - with Christianized blacks living in savannah and tropical forests at the south of the country, and every imaginable permutation in between. Arabic pastoralists who emigrated from the Arabian peninsula many centuries ago with their great herds of camels wandering in the east, the cattle-keeping Denka and Shilluk of the southern plains, etc. etc.

Not a continuous cultural matrix. Historically the southern tribes were heavily predated by slavers such as the infamous Tippu Tib which depopulated vast areas and drove the agricultural tribes made famous by Reifenstahl into the hills where she found them. And possibly set up a rather poor basis for future cooperation.

Like so many colonial constructions you have a central government working out of Khartoum, whose power falls off geometrically as you move away from the capital.

That government has practiced some partiality towards the northern more Arab tribes, principally they dominate it but this in part, to give them their due, was because such 'modern' development as there was in the Sudan happened there first; vast reaches of the south were often an unnegotiable swamp called the Sudd which isolated some of the more 'African' tribes.

The Brits ran it as a colony, or at least in some relation to it's Egyptian territory, and put in a railroad south of Aswan through to Khartoum in the 19th century.

So we can imagine the sort of heavy handed patronizing that might have been addressed to the southern animist tribes (who for the most part eschewed such impractical refinements as clothing) by the courtly Arabs who first put their hand to running this new creation.

Not unfamiliar to Canadians, eh?

And has been pointed out in recent reading I've done and can't find, it fractures along far more complex tribal gradations as well; aren't the Janjaweed Islamicized blacks for example? I don't remember.

As for Rufus question re: weapons, decades ago the central government was armed by the Russians and the Chinese were in there hustling as well; but nearly every nation bordering that country - Chad, Central African Republic, the former Zaire, Eritrea/Ethiopia, Uganda - has seen civil wars which weaponize a place purdy quick.

Settles dreamily into leather armchair, gently places feet on footstool by the crackling fire and draws deeply on his cigar...

I remember going to the souk in Juba one (inevitably sunny) morning to find a truck that could take us the direct route to Kenya, since we'd been warned by the American Embassy in Khartoum against trying the Ugandan route, too many unpaid Tanzanian soldiers in the north attacking convoys...watching a German traveller - the first 'hawaja' we'd seen in weeks - clambering down off the back of a lorry that had just come from there and telling us not to go that way, he'd seen burned villages and many bodies in the road. The story was that the region, traditionally unstable – Somali cattle raiders, etc - had been much aggravated by Ugandan soldiers dumping their automatic weapons as they fled an advancing Tanzanian army - busy liberating that country from Big Dada - and converted their guns to cash...local squabbles over wells now tending to be sorted with a burst of AK47 rather than the more traditional singing threatening songs and waving spears sort of thing...

And of course the Congo is in chaos, so, yeah, the whole region is awash in weaponry, a loaf of bread probably costs more.

All this doesn’t detract from my personal conviction that the current central government are a pack of ignorant fundamentalists who are probably big fans of the Taliban.

But then again, remember that pharmaceutical plant Blowjob Bill took out with a couple of cruise missiles? No surprise they’re a little bit pissy with meddling western, ahem, do-gooders.

Ok, I’ve rambled enough. I just think, yes by God get the UN to contain the current crisis, but military intervention can only be a bandaid, deeper work needs to be done there, on the basis of deeper understanding. Than, for instance, I have.


From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Canamerican Girl
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 29 August 2004 03:31 AM      Profile for Canamerican Girl        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hello, all. I'm new here, brought here by my interest in the ongoing discussion regarding the 1991 Arbitration Act Ontario's Marion Boyd is now reviewing. Ron Csillag, a columnist at YorkRegion.com referred to this site as offering "level-headed discussion" which is refreshing to me. As a Canadian born green card carrying American resident, I know alot about both sides of these two great countries, and it puzzles me to no end how often both sides don't get each other. For example, my sister in BC gets comments all the time from people who think every american carries a gun, as if we were all cowboys and cowgirls looking for some posse.

So, intro aside, I have been following the situation in Darfur for sometime. I have been trying to raise awareness to it. Here is a letter I submitted to some US media outlets that I doubt will see the light of day. But I think it tells you why we don't hear much about Darfur in either of these countries. Our media is far too interested in silly things said by Carolyn Parrish and Linda Rondstadt.


"Dear Very Famous People:

I write this letter to all the celebrities, pundits, wonks and op ed types in the hope that someone with star powered wattage could turn the world’s eye to the death and destruction continuing in Darfur, Sudan.

I thought that perhaps if people like Michael Moore, Bill Clinton, Linda Rondstadt, Paris and other famous people making the rounds in the headlines shouted out to people for help in Darfur, maybe we could get the world moving.

Mr. Moore. I know you worked very hard on Fahrenheit 911 and it includes some very important footage and revelations. But now, those 7 minutes are really unimportant when you consider that a million people are on the verge of starvation. Remember when you stormed that beach in Connecticut? Maybe you could storm the refugee camps along the Chad/Sudan border and help get the food these people need. You can even poke fun at McDonald’s and Enron while you do it.

Mr. Clinton, I know you’ve already just recently discussed the Sudan on your book tour. But every time they ask how many times you slept on the couch, could you answer with “Oh, this one mom in Maryland would like for me to respond to that very important question with the phone number to Doctors Without Borders, UNICEF, Oxfam, Amnesty International and many other more important numbers?” I think it would be beneficial twice…first, it would get out these phone numbers for people to make donations. And then, it would shut them up, because, really… who cares about your affair with Monica when as recently as this last Tuesday, another village was strafed with bullets from a Sudanese helicopter.

Linda Rondstadt… prove your compassion for the world by saying something productive. And, even better for you, the people dying in the Sudan are mostly not Christians OR Republicans. So, you’d be saving people you like by asking people to donate.

Paris, while you and Nicole are driving around the country in a camper… perhaps you could put the number for your favorite relief organization on the side of your Airstream.

I have written my representatives and the newspapers asking for more attention to this global dilemma. But, apparently, tens of thousands of displaced people dying the cruel death of starvation just isn’t as sexy as a gay governor stepping down with his wife at his side. So, maybe we can find some gay refugees who have momentarily put aside their fight to be married in order to stay alive as the rains, locusts and newly deputized Janjaweed police officers rape their daughters.

Please…speak out against this genocide. Donate to the relief organization of your choice. Talk about this with your friends and family. But do not put this on a back burner. The need for international help is now.

Donations can be made to these very hardworking groups by either writing, calling or visiting on-line:

Amnesty International:

1-800-AMNESTY

https://secure3.ctsg.com/amnestyusa...sp?item=1&ms=H3


UN World Food Program:

Friends of WFP
P.O. Box 11856
Washington, DC 20008

http://www.wfp.org/how_to_help/support_wfp/online.html

Doctors without Borders:

1-888- 392-0392

http://www.doctorswithoutborders-usa.org/donate/


Oxfam America:

Oxfam America
Donor Services Dept.
26 West Street
Boston, MA
02111-1206

https://secure.ga3.org/02/oxfamamerica

Episcopal Relief and Development (this is my faith…I’m sure many other faiths have emergency missions underway… in fact, this link [ https://www.disasternews.net/donations/index.php ] offers a listing of ways for different faiths to donate on-line. The ERD allows me to give directly to their Sudan Relief Fund.)

Episcopal Relief and Development
Box 12043
Newark, NJ 07101

1-800-334-7626, ext. 5129

https://www.disasternews.net/donations/erd.php#check

UNICEF

unicefusa.org
333 East 38th Street
New York, NY 10016

1.800.4UNICEF

http://www.supportunicef.org/site/p...I1LdP0G&b=80128"


From: Maryland, USA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged

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