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Author Topic: Challenging the law banning unions for Ontario college part-timers
Randy Robinson
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posted 08 November 2005 11:15 PM      Profile for Randy Robinson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi folks,

The Ontario Public Service Employees Union has launched a campaign to make it legal for part-time college employees in Ontario to join a union. Sad but true: the Colleges Collective Bargaining Act legally bars college workers -- faculty and support -- from unionizing if they are working part-time. Obvious result? Some 16,000 people get lower pay (even working for free or, as the employer would have it, for love), no benefits or pensions to speak of, and zero job security beyond the end of the latest temporary contract.

The Liberal Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities, a guy named Chris Bentley, refuses to talk about the issue or even acknowledge that the 24 colleges are using scads of part-timers.

For background info, or to subscribe to the campaign newsletter, The Part-Time Times, go to www.collegeworkers.org .To be part of the campaign -- you don't have to be a college worker -- send a message to [email protected].

RR

[ 09 November 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Randy Robinson
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posted 08 November 2005 11:17 PM      Profile for Randy Robinson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That web address is correct, but the link is not, I guess. Try this:Ontario college workers web page
From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 09 November 2005 12:05 AM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I fixed your link above, Randy. You have to make sure the period is not included in the UBB tag.

[ 09 November 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
radiorahim
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posted 11 November 2005 02:03 AM      Profile for radiorahim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
IIRC the Harris government's attempt at banning unions in the agricultural sector was overturned in a Charter Challenge.
From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
blake 3:17
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posted 12 November 2005 04:32 PM      Profile for blake 3:17     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How disgusting! My mind has been on the problem of colleges in Ontario and had no idea about this form of discrimination between full time and part time workers.

Yuck. I hope other babblers sign the OPSEU petition.

On a theoretical side bar: No offence meant to agricultural workers, but the history of peasants and farmers is notorious for abusive practices. It's interesting the prallels between these legal institutions, the one weirdly traditional and rural, and other modern and urban.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Randy Robinson
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posted 14 November 2005 10:17 AM      Profile for Randy Robinson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just in reply to radiorahim's comment, what the Supreme Court of Canada said was that, while agricultural workers do have a right to freedom of association, and could, for example, form a group to promote their aims, that freedom of association did not imply the right to collective bargaining. Agricultural workers in Ontario still don't have real union rights.

The only other example I know of of a worker challenging a law banning unions involved a Quebec RCMP officer. The Supreme Court rejected his claim that his constitutional rights were being violated because RCMP officers can't unionize.


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 November 2005 10:23 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How is it possible for a law banning people from unionizing!? That's crazy! Surely there must be a constitutional issue in there somewhere!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 14 November 2005 10:44 AM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hmm not if they already ruled on the RCMP officer as above Michelle. That means some groups/classes/etc can be forbidden from unionizing
From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 November 2005 10:52 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If there is a good reason for it, then that's one thing. Police are subject to certain restrictions because of the power they have over the populace, just as soldiers in the military are. That's different than not allowing civilian populations to unionize simply because of their part-time/full-time status.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 14 November 2005 01:36 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There are two separate questions: first, whether freedom of association is interfered with by challenged legislation; and second, whether the interference can be "demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

In the police/military cases, interference with unionization is almost certainly justifiable.

In the case of the part-time workers, I would be surprised if it were.

I think a careful reading of the agricultural case, Dunmore v. Ontario, which can be found here:

http://www.lexum.umontreal.ca/csc-scc/en/index.html

establishes that the legislature cannot get away with undercutting associational rights in this way.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 14 November 2005 01:55 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I tried to access the "Background information" section at the site, but every link there is dead. Apparently they're all pointing to

file:///S:/Web%20Master/newsite2004/caat/parttime/chambersletterjun9.htm

...etc. Which is kind of ironic, because no webmaster could be this inept.

Resolve your links, web "master"

Anyway, anyone have the actual wording of the law that prohibits part timers from unionizing?


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Randy Robinson
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posted 14 November 2005 02:11 PM      Profile for Randy Robinson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From where I am, all links on the web site at www.collegeworkers.org are working.

Ontario laws are available on the web at http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca . The Colleges Collective Bargaining Act is at http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90c15_e.htm . Read Appendices 1 & 2 to learn more about the exclusion of part-timers from the bargaining units described in the Act.


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 14 November 2005 02:14 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are you the webmaster? If you are, then you probably have the files on your hard drive (which is where the links are pointing) and so it would appear to you that everything is hunky-dory. Trust me: I copied that link, I didn't make it up.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
slimpikins
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posted 14 November 2005 02:55 PM      Profile for slimpikins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There are several groups that are prohibited from forming a Union. In Alberta, they include agricultural workers. The 'renegade' Farmworkers Union of Alberta, affectionately known as the 'F You, Eh?' are working to change that. As well, the UFCW has challenged this law as it pertains to mushroom plant workers, who work in what would appear to everyone as a factory producing mushrooms around the clock but legally is designated as a 'farm'.

There should be no laws against Unionizing for anyone. Contract arbitration and 'work now grieve later' laws effectively eliminate any real concerns for what some call essential services.


From: Alberta | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 14 November 2005 02:55 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am having problems with the website as well. Under "Background Information," the first link: "Questions and Answers" is working for me, but all the others point to the same dead link Magoo posted above.

By the way, Magoo, if you really want to be helpful you could actually email the webmaster at the address provided on the website: cclayton (at) opseu.org , rather than just making fun of him or her here.

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Loretta
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posted 14 November 2005 08:24 PM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't imagine how a government can allow some employees in a field of work to unionize and disallowed others, based on hours worked per week. It will be interesting to see how successful the challenge is.

quote:
In the police/military cases, interference with unionization is almost certainly justifiable.

Why is that so?

[ 14 November 2005: Message edited by: Loretta ]


From: The West Kootenays of BC | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 14 November 2005 09:03 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In the police/military cases, interference with unionization is almost certainly justifiable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is that so?


Because rights are not absolute, but subject to such reasonable limitations, prescribed by law. which can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

The government would have little difficulty in showing why police officers' ability to strike should not be lawful. Police are the guarantors of the public sphere; it is their responsibility to guarantee that citizens may exercise THEIR rights, fully.

Restrictions on police rights to unionize are common in other free and democratic societies.

In fact, I know of none in which police unionization is allowed.

The same thing applies to the military, if anything, more so. Obviously, no free society could allow the Army to refuse to defend it, unless its demands are met. Such is almost the very definition of a dictatorship.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jrootham
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posted 14 November 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for jrootham     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According to this site there are several organizations described as police unions in the Netherlands.

It's also not quite clear to me what the difference is between the Toronto Police Association and a union is. I suspect there are some formal differences, I just don't know what they are.

We should distinguish between unions (and collective bargaining) and the right to strike.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 14 November 2005 09:17 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yup. That's a long, unbroken, dotted line, all right.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 14 November 2005 09:48 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The International Labour Organization has repeatedly condemned Canadian federal and provincial governments for enacting legislation contrary to the terms of our membership in that organization.
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Randy Robinson
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posted 15 November 2005 10:44 AM      Profile for Randy Robinson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As of last night, the section of the web site at http://www.collegeworkers.org that was acting up is now behaving responsibly.

Please feel free to check out the new, expanded Q&A on the whole issue of college part-timers that we put up yesterday.

Thanks for your help, Robbie.


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 January 2007 08:58 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just received this by e-mail:

quote:
Part-time workers in Ontario's Community College system are prohibited by law from organizing a union in their workplaces.

These workers have created their own association and are working to change the law. You can help by taking 30 seconds to send a message to the Ontario government (a copy goes to the workers), urging them to grant part-time college workers the same rights as most other Canadian workers. Go here to send a message.



From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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