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Author Topic: words that make you cringe
Debra
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Babbler # 117

posted 13 June 2003 02:42 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just watching the news, there is a blurb about an attempted abuduction by four men of a woman leaving a Walmart store around 10pm.

"Police urge woman out at night to use common sense"

WTF!!! So the guys aren't wrong she was just stupid for thinking that she had the right to be out past suppertime.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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Babbler # 387

posted 13 June 2003 02:58 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Police need educating, that's for sure. What do they consider common sense? I'm sure the woman didn't do anything to gain the interest of these men, she was likely just doing her business.

Most women do look around before going into a parking lot at night, even a well lighted one. Most women do not walk into a situation if someone nearby makes them feel threatened. I don't know what more anyone can do.


From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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posted 13 June 2003 03:02 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree.

You never hear the police or news-organization announce to the effect that men shouldn't commit crimes like that, or that they should smarten up and behave better. Sure its assumed but wouldn't it be intersting to see the effect an advertising campaign which was long, hard-hitting, serious, and frequent would have? Say on the issue that its unacceptable to, for instance, stalk women?

And I am being serious. Perhaps at the very least it would bring home to some guys that their pal's behaviour crosses the line.

I've never understood why society accepts half it's population essentially behaving as if under seige and somehow responsible for their own protection and actions while rarely, publicly admonishing those responsible about their role in these issues.

And of course I'm not talking about all men.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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Babbler # 2534

posted 13 June 2003 03:09 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You get such victim-blaming discourse all the time when the police hand out their helpful hints for "groups at risk", (women, seniors, teenagers at risk of "taxing"...). Though some things are just common sense or useful like "don't carry all your money in the same place" some of them don't take people's living conditions into account at all - like telling people to keep their hands free and not carry packages . We all own cars or have porters, of course ...

People are safest when streets are populated, not deserted...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 13 June 2003 03:09 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're not????
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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Babbler # 370

posted 13 June 2003 04:08 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If ya have a pit bull and a rottweiller at your side you are probably safer at night.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 13 June 2003 04:48 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unless they gang up on you, clersal. I only have Renzo as attack cat. But then he is a black cat, so perhaps he could scare off superstitious muggers...

Though like Jerome, he has far better things to do with his evenings than shopping at a Wal-Mart...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 13 June 2003 05:11 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nobody gangs up on a pit bull and a rottweiller.
Jerome is useless he purrs too much.

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 13 June 2003 05:22 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Funny how crime has changed us all, and in ways that have become transparent. Lock your door. Deadbolt your door. Don't let your kids talk to strangers. Park in a well lit area. Don't make eye contact. Don't go into the "wrong" end of town. Roll up your windows and lock your doors. Make sure you have your wallet in your pocket. Don't carry your credit card if you don't need to. Stay in the designated waiting area. If you see suspicious activity, push the red button. Walk confidently. Hold your keys in your fingers and your pepper spray in your other hand. Don't wear a walkman. Don't walk like a victim. Have a nice day.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 13 June 2003 05:35 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't follow much of that advice, Mr. Magoo. I refuse to give in - maybe that's foolhardy of me, but I feel very strongly about living my life at all hours of the day and night.

Last night I got together with an older couple I know from Kingston who are in town for a conference. I told them to drop me off at the subway station (it would have been a long drive for them otherwise) and I would find my way home from there. The woman felt bad about doing that, didn't want to, because she didn't want me to walk home from the station at night - it was around 11. I told her that I live alone in the city, and I certainly don't stay inside at night because I'm afraid of walking alone.

I lock my door. But I let my son talk to strangers when he's with me because he knows he is safe with me, and he's too young to be walking out by himself anyhow, so what's the point of telling him when I'm standing right next to him not to talk to someone on the street? Baloney. He talks to strangers and charms them completely. The only time I curtail him is when I think the stranger doesn't want to be bothered, and in that case I'm just teaching him good manners.

I drive with the windows open and the doors unlocked, carjacking be damned. I carry my money and cards with me in a purse that I carry across my shoulder and neck. I used to walk with my keys laced through my fingers, but I don't bother anymore - I figure anyone who wants to attack me will be able to wrest those keys away from me in about two seconds flat.

Don't make eye contact? Baloney. Walk with your head up straight, swing your arms confidently, and look into the face of every person you pass, especially men. It lets people know that you got a good look at their face. You don't have to make it a challenge - I often give a half-nod as I pass, as if I'm just being polite. Don't walk like a victim? Absolutely. That's why you make eye contact. People who are scared avoid eye contact.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
andrean
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posted 13 June 2003 06:46 PM      Profile for andrean     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm with Michelle (actually, I practically am - we're neighbours now!) about looking people in the face and making eye contact. You can be pleasant about it and still demonstrate that you're aware of who's approaching.

I feel a lot safer being out on my own at night downtown than I ever did when I lived in the 'burbs. Here, there's always traffic, there's always street life, people's homes are close to the street...someone will hear if you call for help. In the suburbs, it's like a ghost town after nightfall.

The other night, I was walking down Church Street towards Queen when a man started chatting me as I walked - he a seemed a little high, so I kept my responses minimal and continued on my way. It entered my mind to be nervous, but before I could actual commit to the emotion, the man said, "Be safe getting home" and crossed over to the other side of the street. Sometimes, people pleasantly surprise me.


From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 13 June 2003 07:19 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In Richmond we have a lot of problems with the teenage wannabe gang members raiding grow-ops. The police have numerous times made public warnings that given the gangs that are running grow-ops that this is very stupid behaviour. Clearly, the best situation would be where the police had enough control on the situation that gang retribution would not be an issue. But to expect this is unreasonable.

I think that it is also unreasonable to say that Police enforcement levels are responsible for violent environments in general or environments that are violent to women. Moreover, if they are aware of possible dangers, they have an obligation to make the public aware. Doesn't anyone remember the trouble the police got into for not warning the public about the Scarborough rapist?

Asking people to be mindful of the crimminal activities they may be subject to is not blaming the victim.


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Steve N
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posted 13 June 2003 08:28 PM      Profile for Steve N     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This makes me think about the "Jane Doe" in Toronto where the police DIDN'T issue a warning about the "Balcony Rapist" and ended up getting sued.

Now, hang on, this doesn't justify their attitude and language in the above article, and they were issuing these kinds of warnings for decades before JD, but it's now going to be impossible to get them to change. Any comment that their warnings are coming across as patronizing, and they'll respond that they have to, Jane Doe etc. etc. I'm sure every force in the country now has some official policy on making public warning every time someone is attacked.

Personally, I've always thought this is a crock. The police really really want the average citizen to be so scared of crime that they won't walk the streets at night. Then when budget time comes around they can get all the money they want for more cops, more raises, more benefits, more guns, more toys, etc. It's a racket. It doesn't matter if the crime rate is dropping, keep the citizens scared half to death.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 13 June 2003 08:49 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Police are going to encourage people to be cautious. Doctor's are going to tell you eat healthy. It's not going to change.
From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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Babbler # 117

posted 13 June 2003 08:53 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What I resent is "common sense"

What common sense prevents you for becoming the victim of a completely unprovoked attack?

It just seems very condescending.

Apparently the police didn't feel it necessary to issue warnings about someone trying to pick up children around a school.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 13 June 2003 09:26 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We have a serial rapist in Montreal who has been attacking young women IN BROAD DAYLIGHT when they get off the bus, in the suburb of Laval and residential neighbourhoods in Montreal. Once again, the same kind of warnings - such as "ask relatives to pick you up at your bus stop. Cheech.

Like Michelle et al, I feel much safer in the city centre (except certain specific dangerous places) than in deserted, outlying areas. Where I live there are always people out - old Italian guys chatting on the street corner and Latinos playing loud music (fortunately relatively tuneful, and not too, too loud...).


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
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posted 14 June 2003 02:33 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Don't make eye contact? Baloney. Walk with your head up straight, swing your arms confidently, and look into the face of every person you pass, especially men. It lets people know that you got a good look at their face. You don't have to make it a challenge - I often give a half-nod as I pass, as if I'm just being polite. Don't walk like a victim? Absolutely. That's why you make eye contact. People who are scared avoid eye contact.

EXACTLY! The "use common sense" line is utter fallacy- rapists don't care where you are, what you are doing, what time it is, what you are wearing, NOTHING except vulnerability.

Not looking vulnerable is the only real way to discourage potential sexual assaulters.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 16 June 2003 07:37 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was raised in the city, so I have a bias that way, but I always felt MUCH safer there than when visiting my friends in the suburbs. As you all have said, there are people out in the city most hours of the day and night, especially on the major streets. The buses in the city come more frequently and take more passengers, so you don't have to get on or off in deserted areas. And the streets in the suburbs tend to curve more than those in the city, so you can't see as well where you're going or who might be following you.

"Use common sense" IS offensive. It's about a half-step removed from "don't be stupid." Can't they say "be cautious" or "look out for a man who fits this description"?


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mohamad Khan
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posted 21 June 2003 12:12 PM      Profile for Mohamad Khan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
tell me something: if, when passed by a girl, a guy makes a lewd comment to her face and stares at her ass, what is the correct thing for another guy (father, boyfriend, brother, friend, etc.) to do having seen this?

i ask this because i find myself continually eyeing my squash racquets of late....


From: "Glorified Harlem": Morningside Heights, NYC | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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Babbler # 370

posted 21 June 2003 01:07 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh dear, that is serious.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 21 June 2003 01:31 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good grief, MK! I've had lewd comments made at me, but never in company with a male person. I generally rip a verbal strip off the silly booger that leaves him reeling, myself. I've never been in need of male intervention on that front.

But I think if it happened that the blond guy did so, a fistfight would ensue, and that would not do. You have to remember what kind of louts make these comments.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 21 June 2003 02:14 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know what your girlfriend is like, Mohamad, but I know that if I were in that situation in company with a man, I would want the man to allow me to handle it in the way that made me most comfortable. And the way that would make me most comfortable is to make some stinging comeback that would make the guy feel two feet high and/or 1.5 inches long. I would want to handle it myself.

If I were you, I would ask my girlfriend how she would be most comfortable dealing with it, and what she would like me to do, if anything at all.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 387

posted 21 June 2003 03:10 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Men who do this kind of thing in front of other men are itching for a fight. You don't need to get into that. I agree with letting your girlfriend handle it. In my younger days, I would evaluate the man the same way and make some comment like, "Nope, what I have is better." and move on.
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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