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Author Topic: The Middle East? Just ignore it.
Doug
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posted 04 May 2007 03:54 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=9302

quote:
We devote far too much attention to the middle east, a mostly stagnant region where almost nothing is created in science or the arts—excluding Israel, per capita patent production of countries in the middle east is one fifth that of sub-Saharan Africa. The people of the middle east (only about five per cent of the world's population) are remarkably unproductive, with a high proportion not in the labour force at all.

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=9302

A bit nasty, but it's definitely a tempting idea.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Khimia
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posted 04 May 2007 05:00 PM      Profile for Khimia     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tempting indeed.
From: Burlington | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 04 May 2007 05:58 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What a peice of inhumane, imperalistic bullshit. So, just because the arab world hasn't produced any internationally recognized artists we should abandon 200 million people to bloodshed and death? Fuck that. That region of the world does produce writers, poets and painters, the governments they work for just keep them close to home. There are two main groups who wish us to ignore the middle east. One is made up of people who are simply ignorant of the situation in the furtile crescent and the holiest of Muslim lands. The other group that wishes us to dismiss the Middle East entirely are prominant activists who are connected to the Zionist right. If the West can be convinced that the Mid East is a lost cause, it will be easier for the IDF to brutalize the Palistians and the other arab peoples.

[ 04 May 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

[ 04 May 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

[ 05 May 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 04 May 2007 06:23 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ignoring it would of course include discontinuing all military largesse directed Israel's way, right?
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 04 May 2007 06:27 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is that what the article is arguing? I just read the first little bit.
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 04 May 2007 07:11 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is kind of a slap your forehead scratch your head kind of an article, isn't it.

quote:
The operational mistake that middle east experts keep making is the failure to recognise that backward societies must be left alone, as the French now wisely leave Corsica to its own devices, as the Italians quietly learned to do in Sicily, once they recognised that maxi-trials merely handed over control to a newer and smarter mafia of doctors and lawyers. With neither invasions nor friendly engagements, the peoples of the middle east should finally be allowed to have their own history—the one thing that middle east experts of all stripes seem determined to deny them.

Are you familiar with the author, Doug? I read the side bar about him and his "think tank" but has he a record of wise counsel or some such...


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 04 May 2007 07:57 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The operational mistake that middle east experts keep making is the failure to recognise that backward societies must be left alone, as the French now wisely leave Corsica to its own devices, as the Italians quietly learned to do in Sicily, once they recognised that maxi-trials merely handed over control to a newer and smarter mafia of doctors and lawyers.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it ignores the fact that we live in a globilized world. What happens in the Middle East effects North America and what happens in North America effects the Middle East. To ignore the region is fool hardy. Yes, we should stop funding dictatorships in the Gulf, Levant and Mesopotamia, but we should never dismiss West Asia is unimportant.

[ 04 May 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

[ 04 May 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 04 May 2007 08:51 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When the oil runs out, the Mideast will receive far, far less attention than it does now. And, what will the result be of the opportunity that 100 years of oil afforded it? An opportunity lost.
From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 04 May 2007 09:01 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not all Arab states have wasted their oil money. The Baathist regime in Iraq used it to build schools and hospitals.
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 04 May 2007 09:11 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
Not all Arab states have wasted their oil money. The Baathist regime in Iraq used it to build schools and hospitals.

Did any of the countries invest in creating any sustainable industry? Schools and hospitals can't run forever without money.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 05 May 2007 10:14 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Did any of the countries invest in creating any sustainable industry? Schools and hospitals can't run forever without money.


I don't know. They're are probably people in the Middle East who are trying to make their countries less dependent on hand outs from the west and oil money, but such change is difficult, especially when most of the nations in the region are controlled by regimes which owe their existance to imperial Washington.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 05 May 2007 11:23 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Look, this is more Bernard Lewis orientalist crap. It's a spiteful little article by a spiteful little person.

I have a thought: This thread? Just ignore it.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 05 May 2007 02:28 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
I don't know. They're are probably people in the Middle East who are trying to make their countries less dependent on hand outs from the west and oil money, but such change is difficult, especially when most of the nations in the region are controlled by regimes which owe their existance to imperial Washington.

Decades of US (and allied) support for wretched regimes in the Mideast has been a terrible mistake. Those regimes—and regimes that the US (and its allies) opposed—have wasted trillions of dollars of the peoples' wealth.

It is a terrible lost opportunity. What will be left when the oil is gone? How will jobs and wealth be created?


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 05 May 2007 05:59 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It is a terrible lost opportunity.

The opportunity hasn't been lost but there are powerful people who would like us to think that it has been.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
ceti
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posted 06 May 2007 01:49 PM      Profile for ceti     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, "we" should ignore the Middle East, just pull out all armed forces, pull out subsidies and loans, and let the region sort itself out. Let them also control their own resources!

One forgets the Middle East is the way it is because of a hundred years of deep European/American imperialism. Heck, many of countries were created by the French and the British, including Israel, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudia Arabia, etc...

So whatever this article advances is so ignorant, it's hard to know where to begin.


From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 11 May 2007 03:41 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just to be clear, I do not support imperialism. The Americans and British have no buisness in Iraq and they certainly shoudn't be funding the regimes which currently rule the Middle East with an iron fist. There is nothing wrong however, with being concerned about the arab world and standing in solidarity with the people in the region who really want change.
When a right wing pundit(which is what the author seems to be) talks about "ignoring" the Middle East, he or she is not talking about ending western imperalism in West Asia, they are aiming their message squarely at the people figting for a more humane shift in mid east politics.

[ 11 May 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged

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