If there is any silver lining, it is this: Bush has weakened America, and compromised its ability to continue to export death.

Thanks to Bush II, America's century-old tradition of warfare, imperialism, and interventionism is now persisting on borrowed time (and borrowed money).

Bush II has squandered American financial and political resources, and has isolated the country diplomatically. Internally, it is divided. America is even hated by Americans.
America is in decline.

Hopefully, we will eventually be left with a weaker, more humble, America - An America that will be unable to continue its tradition of projecting misery around the globe.

It's been a painful 6 years, and the worst is possibly yet to come. At least now, the end of empire is in sight.

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Originally posted by Legless-Marine:
[QB]The world has bourne a great deal of suffering and destruction during Bush's reign.

If there is any silver lining, it is this: Bush has weakened America, and compromised its ability to continue to export death.

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with a huge military presence in the Mideast, it has enough oil to fuel the tanks & the airplanes & the boats for another hundred years.

how about, the Rest of the World, stop selling the United States oil, until they stop their War of Terror ?

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Thanks to Bush II, America's century-old tradition of warfare, imperialism, and interventionism is now persisting on borrowed time (and borrowed money).

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yes, America is a house of cards. If & When the rest of the world would Refuse to Loan the US Government money, it would help. maybe it would be The Card that would reform the House of Cards.

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Bush II has squandered American financial and political resources, and has isolated the country diplomatically. Internally, it is divided. America is even hated by Americans. America is in decline.

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it is an odd feeling. Bush & Cheney may not represent me, but their Dreams of Empire do represent the secret wishes of a lot of Americans.

I cried about the impending attack on Iran Friday & Saturday. a friend who calls themself a liberal Democrat told me that "crying is a waste of time".

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Hopefully, we will eventually be left with a weaker, more humble, America - An America that will be unable to continue its tradition of projecting misery around the globe.

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the Death Rattle will be a hum-dinger.

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It's been a painful 6 years, and the worst is possibly yet to come. At least now, the end of empire is in sight.

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i wish that were so. the Bush-Cheney Business Plan is to seize 100+ Billion Barrels of Iraqi oil, and to create a HUGE mess, which will be bequeathed to the next probably Democratic president.

to some extent, although we do live in a world of our own creation, we have allowed Cheney's Vision to be the dominant one.

it has set the world on a course from which it may never recover. at best, it will take a generation or 2 to recover. certainly that is the case for the families of all the civilians the US has killed in the mid-East, directly & through its proxy, Israel.

[ 30 January 2007: Message edited by: Abdul_Maria ]

[ 30 January 2007: Message edited by: jeff house ]

Then another superpower can take its place like....ohhh....China. A country with no respect for human rights, a self-centered racist view of themselves and no respect for democracy or rule of law.

Yep, sounds like a great new world we're looking at.

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Originally posted by Piper-519:
Yep, hopefully America falls.

Then another superpower can take its place like....ohhh....China.

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How about a world in which different countries are on a more level playing field, and negotiate with each other in good faith?

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Originally posted by Secret Agent Style:

How about a world without superpowers who bully other countries?

How about a world in which different countries are on a more level playing field, and negotiate with each other in good faith?

Ah, never mind. That's not as fun as a world constantly in military and political turmoil. The weapons industry would suffer and there would never be new material for war movies.

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Awww, thats so cute. An idealist.

It's just so sad to see you guys when reality kicks in.

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Originally posted by Piper-519:

Awww, thats so cute. An idealist.

It's just so sad to see you guys when reality kicks in.

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Originally posted by Secret Agent Style:

Yeah, like how you think the USA's invasion of the Middle East is about promoting freedom, democracy and human rights. I wonder when reality will hit you on that one, when even many of the most die-hard Republicans have given up on that myth.

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Then what is it about?

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Originally posted by Piper-519:

Then what is it about?

it ain't about oil, not when it costs half a paycheck to fill up a Toyota.

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The oil companies are making more profits than ever before. The last few years clearly show that the price of gasoline is not directly tied to oil supply.

The oil companies use every excuse in the book to drive up prices, and they get away with it because governments don't have the guts, or the will to clamp down on their price fixing and monopoly tactics.

[ 30 January 2007: Message edited by: Secret Agent Style ]

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Originally posted by Piper-519:

it ain't about oil, not when it costs half a paycheck to fill up a Toyota.

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Originally posted by Legless-Marine:
If there is any silver lining, it is this: Bush has weakened America, and compromised its ability to continue to export death.

It's been a painful 6 years, and the worst is possibly yet to come. At least now, the end of empire is in sight.

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And, if they really go into a total economic collapse then we will very likely go down as well.

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I suspect that the "impending decline" of the US is more a wish than a reality.

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Huh? The decline has already happened. The US has nowhere near the influence and power that they did in the eighties. The question is, where will it stop? I can't imagine how anybody thinks the upcoming juggernaut of the new China will fail to eclipse the US, not to mention India,and a revitalised South America. The power balance in the world is flattening out, because the structures that kept it concentrated in the west are falling apart.

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Originally posted by Piper-519:
Yep, hopefully America falls.

(In case you didn't get it, thats sarcasm)

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America is falling. the quality of life for working people is the worse i have witnessed in 49 years, and declining. working people had a better life in america pre-transistor.

i'm not anti-computer, i got 12 of them, meaning, i stopped counting at 12.

but for the average working people, like a supervisor on a work crew for a moving company, or a supervisor at a coffee place, life is not better than it was 40 years ago.

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Originally posted by Coyote:
I don't think these kinds of things can be so easily predicted. There are any number of factors that can lead to imperial decline or rebirth. Rome was inches from falling any number of times before the Visigoths finally came crashing through the doors.

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Some accounts say rebellious slaves did the most damage to Rome. I think the Democrats are capable, but they will need two to three terms in power to reverse the damage done. There are now a number of credible sources chiming in with those long-time predictions of imminent crises in the economy. And some of them are saying this is the year. I believe "starve the beast" Conservatives have created the ultimate crisis. They began looting and pillaging well before anyone else had planned to.

[ 30 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by Piper-519:
Then what is it about?

it ain't about oil, not when it costs half a paycheck to fill up a Toyota.

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it is about oil. Iraq has 110 billion barrels of it. $5.5 Trillion worth.

superimpose a map of troop locations on top of a map of the oil fields.

the 2 maps are nearly identical.

iran, whose reserves are almost as big as Iraq's, is surrounded by American troops - Iraq on one side, Afghanistan on the other.