Many fab workshops and speakers, including the Babblicious Jeff House.

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November 11-13, 2005
West Block and Wellington Building,
Parliament Buildings, Ottawa

WORKSHOPS ON STRATEGY FOR THE MOVEMENT
INFORMATION SESSIONS ON WAR, MILITARIZATION, IMPERIALISM AND CIVIL LIBERTIES

Billeting and childcare available
$75 registration fee for all three days, $40 for students and unwaged

Resources to download (Program, Registration Forms, Posters, Flyers in French and English)

Michael Ignatieff, in his book, The Lesser Evil

"Liberals can't bring themselves to support freedom in Iraq lest they seem to collude with neoconservative bombast.All this makes you wonder when the left forgot the proper name for people who bomb polling stations,kill election workers and assasinate candidates.The right name for such people is fascists.

Michael Ignatieff,in the NYT Magazine.

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Originally posted by outlandist:
...All this makes you wonder when the left forgot the proper name for people who bomb polling stations,kill election workers and assasinate candidates.The right name for such people is fascists...

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Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
It sounds like it should be hosted by Alex Baldwin and Kim Jong-Il.

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"Liberals can't bring themselves to support freedom in Iraq lest they seem to collude with neoconservative bombast.

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Originally posted by sgm:

Watch out for that straw man, Professor Ignatieff. Some herbivore's likely to munch him.

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The predominant themes, in addition to Iraq, will be Canada's role in Afghanistan and Haiti, and the federal government's refusal to support the right of US war resisters to stay in Canada.

Canada is not an innocent bystander in today's imperialist adventures, but an active participant. The MSM have ignored this. We have to get these issues before the public by demonstrating in big numbers.

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The single biggest impediment to getting people mobilized around war and occupation issues is the widespread perception that Canada’s hands are clean in the world; that unseemly regime changes are things carried out by George W. Bush and that at worst we are benevolent bystanders or well-meaning peacekeepers coming in after the fact.

Perhaps one under-utilized way to get around this pervasive myth is to highlight the blatant war profiteering of massive Canadian corporations. While the sordid operations of the likes of Exxon and Halliburton are internationally known, equally rapacious war companies based north of the 49th parallel are getting away with scant attention. The two that stand out are Gildan Activewear and SNC-Lavalin.

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[ 04 December 2005: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
One of the main things to come out of the conference was a call for major demonstrations on March 18, 2006, the third anniversary of the start of the Iraq war.

The predominant themes, in addition to Iraq, will be Canada's role in Afghanistan and Haiti, and the federal government's refusal to support the right of US war resisters to stay in Canada.

Canada is not an innocent bystander in today's imperialist adventures, but an active participant. The MSM have ignored this. We have to get these issues before the public by demonstrating in big numbers.
Read more

[ 04 December 2005: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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I'm sorry... I'm rolling on the floor laughhing over here that you are screeching war profiteering at a clothing manufacturer and the company that handles the cleaning of shitters, and laundry in overseas operations. Are you seriously implying that these companies are even in the same sport, let alone on the same playing field?

Let's see if I get your agricultural metaphor correct here. You're saying that because of all these years of Canadians protesting against wars, SNC Lavalin has grown into a major war profiteer. The moral, being, I guess, that if only we'd shut up and accept the beneficence of George Bush's imperial war machine, and happily play our part in it, companies like SNC Lavalin would wither away.

So we've got it all wrong, then. Instead of exposing the ways Canada profits from war, as part of a campaign to stop the Canadian government from supporting the imperial army's adventures abroad, we should be supporting the wars as a means of putting the profiteers out of business.

SNC-Lavalin is the supplier of bullets to the American army, who then go kills innocent civilians in Irq.

There is almost no such thing are just an innocent clothing company these days, sweatshops are rampid. In case you are not aware, a sweatshop is a factory that pays it's labourers unliveably low wages and treats them like sh*t so that the big white men on top can make better profits. Those clothes are made to support our consumerist attitudes of ensuring our cltohes are always clean and sparkly new, not to mention to latest model.

SNC-Lavalin, if you did some research before posting, has a number of companies, SNC-Profac, which I assume is the division of which you speak does in fact do cleaning. But SNC-Lavalin, does just a little more.

Gildan is not involved, and hence has no influence (direct nor in direct) on the longevity of the war. They could have just as easily sent the business to India (like most every other clothing company). Exploitation is serious, and something that one should challenge most definatly. Work the exploitation thing, and you will get more of a following, war profiteering in this case is a serious charge, and very difficult to prove.

If you have any questions about a publically traded (and hence accessable) business, I would suggest that one goes and makes use of the Access to Information Act (just a suggestion to prevent anyone from finding themselves in legal hot water).

Now, as to the question of SNC... The act of war profiteering within the construct of actual overseas commitment is laughable. The case could be made that the provision of bullets is profiteering (in the passive sense as they are only providing to one side, active means providing to both/all sides generally). The bulk of SNC's profits come from civilian/peaceful endeavours (such as the 407 in Ontario).

Now having said this, I am not a fan of any type of civilian participation at all on peace support operations or war ops (other then regulatory or political pers for the supervision of said missions). The point I was driving at, which MS clearly missed, is that downsizing of the forces has forced us to employ civilian contractors for things such as camp management, cleaning, and maintence (things we used to have enough soldiers for). Because of downsizing, the average soldier deployed on peace support ops works 12-14 hrs a day 6-7 days a week. What is left of the day after that, they have to have as down time to recharge the batteries if you will. Civilian contractors can not do a shift on camp security nor backfill on a patrol. Civilian contractors become a liability to the force deployed (and I seriously doubt they are cheaper then more soldiers).

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In case you are not aware, a sweatshop is a factory that pays it's labourers unliveably low wages and treats them like sh*t so that the big white men on top can make better profits.

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Originally posted by caoimhin:
I guess this is what passes for 'progresssive' discourse on babble, eh? Marcella, you should be ashamed of yourself and your racist attitude, as should the moderators of this forum for allowing it. Disgusting

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Note to "Reason": Read that link and then tell me if you're still rolling on the floor laughing.

[ 06 December 2005: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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Blah Blah the white supremacist structure of the multi-national corporate system blah blah blah the non-white people of the east and south blah blah blah, blah blah blah bla blahaha blah blah. Pathetic. The only people suffering racist oppression blah blaah blah blah are the workers in the developing world who are being exploited, blah blah bla blah blah. Cry me a fucking river.

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And yet you have inserted it as a direct quotation, the implication being that someone else wrote that.

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Originally posted by caoimhin:
Makwa, you are an embarassment. ... Pathetic indeed. Your ignorance is astounding.

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Perhaps, but you sir are:
A knave, a rascal, an eater of broken meats, a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, action-taking, whoreson glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pander, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch, one whom I will beat into clamorous whining if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition.

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If you would like to discuss any matter, I suggest that Babble not be used for personal attacks on anyone. I in fact believe in discussing issues, not attempting to label people in an effort to fear them into submission. Is that what I did in stating that sweatshop profits go to white men? Well, in considering the history of Haiti, I think not, and considering the power mechanisms in our hemisphere, I also think not. I believe it is important to attack the dominant class, get to the root of an issue, rather than attack the subordinate class for their compliance.

You can disagree with my point; however, formulate your argument please, which in fact I agree with, not all people accused of racism are white but there is a much deeper analysis of the root causes of racism and its perpetutation. But please don't attack people on a personal level, it is unfair I think. Might I suggest you start a thread titled "Can non-whites perpetuate racism". I would in fact read that thread, might even contribute.

But honestly, this is all a thread drift from the original title and my apologies for getting into it. Please, feel to start a thread about racism and who propagates it and who is in power and all that.

p.s. White people do run this country, the same way men do. Ohhhhh....now i'm sexist.

[ 06 December 2005: Message edited by: marcella ]

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
And in the case of Gildan Activewear, their sweatshops are in Honduras and Haiti, where the employees are almost all non-white.

Note to "Reason": Read that link and then tell me if you're still rolling on the floor laughing.

[ 06 December 2005: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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Still laughing, just not rolling on the floor. Go back up and read what I said. Take the fuckers down, but word of caution. Be very careful in your wording, the term "war profiteer" is so damned ambigious that a company like Gildan would be able to build a slander case. Using the word exploitation howeverr, clearly describes what is going on.

Protect yourself when you go on these little crusades, and you will be able to enjoy posting for a longer period of time.

The continuing conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Haiti are not just the United States' wars, they are Canada's as well. We are not impartial, disinterested bystanders with no stake in the globalization of greed and destruction that these countries are currently enduring.

Canadian businesses are profiting from the wars against, and the occupation and "reconstruction" of, these and many other countries. Most Canadians, thanks to the MSM, are ignorant of this fact, and assume that anti-war and anti-globalization protests have nothing to do with Canada and everything to do with simple anti-Americanism. The anti-war mobilization of March 18 aims to start educating Canadians about the real extent of our country's economic and political involvement, as well as our military involvement, in these conflicts.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Thanks for the legal advice, but I think I can take care of myself in that regard.

The continuing conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Haiti are not just the United States' wars, they are Canada's as well. We are not impartial, disinterested bystanders with no stake in the globalization of greed and destruction that these countries are currently enduring.

Canadian businesses are profiting from the wars against, and the occupation and "reconstruction" of, these and many other countries. Most Canadians, thanks to the MSM, are ignorant of this fact, and assume that anti-war and anti-globalization protests have nothing to do with Canada and everything to do with simple anti-Americanism. The anti-war mobilization of March 18 aims to start educating Canadians about the real extent of our country's economic and political involvement, as well as our military involvement, in these conflicts.

If you could stop laughing long enough to actually read the available material, you might learn what "war profiteering" actually means. You might even begin to understand that Canada is in fact an imperialist country in its own right, and has a government and military that function accordingly.

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I did read it. There is a crime going on that needs to be addressed... I was trying to point out to you that wording is the weapon in the war you are fighting, and you have choosen a weapon which will most likely be ineffectual.

Most Canadians are fence sitters... Wishy wishy. Hate to say it, but frankly it is true. Something as simple as a choice of words (same message, different words) will be enough to get people off of the fence.

Exploitation is a very powerful word. It is also fairly common for people to know that some companies exploit third world work forces. When the word exploitation gets thrown out there, people are not likely to dismiss it lightly.

War profiteering. First question the average Canadian will ask, "What do they provide the military?". "What, they make active wear? Are these people idiots?".

The end result of the actions associated with both words is the same. The former, might get a few new faces on the picket line, the latter will get people laughing at you.

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Originally posted by caoimhin:
So, according to you, my mom is a bitch and you are going to beat me. All that for suggesting not all slave brokers in the world are white. You need help.

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