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Author Topic: Jimmy Carter -- Arab Agent
Cueball
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posted 15 January 2007 05:51 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Washington Times...

So, since we are at the business of muckraking:

quote:

Fifteen years ago, when the world was adrift on the stormy waves of the Cold War, I established The Washington Times to fulfill God's desperate desire to save this world. Since that time, I have devoted myself to raising up The Washington Times, hoping that this blessed land of America would fulfill its world-wide mission to build a Heavenly nation. Meanwhile, I waged a lonely struggle, facing enormous obstacles and scorn as I dedicated my whole heart and energy to enable The Washington Times to grow as a righteous and responsible journalistic institution.[13]


Reverend Sun Myung Moon


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 15 January 2007 10:45 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's just funny.
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farnival
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posted 15 January 2007 11:56 AM      Profile for farnival     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
very funny indeed. but not funny-haw-haw, as they say. cueball, i was reading your wiki link and saw this:

quote:
Executive officers and editors, present and past

Editors-in-chief

James Whelan (1982-1984)
Smith Hempstone (1984-86)
Arnaud de Borchgrave (1986-1992); currently editor-at-large
Wesley Pruden (1992-present)

Other

Fran Coombs - managing editor
Tony Blankley - editor of the editorial page
Tony Snow - editor of the editorial page, 1987-1990.
Josette Sheeran Shiner - former managing editor


oh, it is such a small, weird world. no wonder they don't like ole Jimmy and his "democracy" projects.


From: where private gain trumps public interest, and apparently that's just dandy. | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 15 January 2007 02:33 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess Rev. Moon is a NeoCon and any writing for the paper invents information. Makes sense.
Also interesting, although fashionable (and probably true) to point to the Bush family fincial ties with Saudis not so fashionable to point out Carter's financial allegiances with the Arab world (even if true)and hence possible bias.Yes very "funny".

From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
farnival
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posted 15 January 2007 02:41 PM      Profile for farnival     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
peech, do you have some sort of alert that goes off when anyone says anything favourable about something Arab, or questions an anti/pro Arab bias, or something Israeli, or questions an anti/pro Israeali bias? If so, you should patent it, so you could get paid something for your lurking/trolling. haha. (oh, and peech, i'm joking with you, in case your funny bone isn't working).
From: where private gain trumps public interest, and apparently that's just dandy. | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 15 January 2007 04:20 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Interesting article on Carter's Book:
quote:
If Carter's intent had been to foster a revival of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, then - as scathing critics Alan Dershowitz and Abraham Foxman have both explicitly remarked - the book can indeed be judged by its cover, and written off as a failure.

Carter's use of the word apartheid, going so far as to say in an interview broadcast on Israel Radio that Israeli policies on the West Bank were worse than those which held sway in the former South African regime, assured that Israelis would associate his stance with that of Yasser Arafat at the close of his career, and dismiss the book out of hand.

In Israel, the Carter issue remains a non-issue. His words - by any measure, in America, fighting words - merit barely a passing nod in the Israeli national discourse.

In fact, even if Carter's intent, as some observers have suggested, was to curry favor with the Palestinians and be seen and celebrated as an honest broker on the Middle East, even that effort has fallen short.

"The glaring error in Carter's book," wrote UCLA Prof. Saree Makdisi in the San Francisco Chronicle "is his insistence that the term 'apartheid' does not apply to Israel itself, where, he says, Jewish and non-Jewish citizen are given the same treatment under the law. That is simply not true."
.....
Small wonder, then, that on Thursday, when the Reform movement's Central Conference of American Rabbis, the rabbinic body of the largest demonination of religiously affiliated American Jews, announced the cancellation of a scheduled visit to the Carter Center in Atlanta, and that it would "firmly disassociate ourselves from Mr. Carter and the Carter Center," the rabbis' dominant tone was one of having been betrayed by a once-cherished ally.

Speaking of "our sadness," the group noted how in the past Carter and his center had been known for dialogue, honest brokering, justice and lovingkindness.

If what Carter really wanted, as he relentlessly reiterates, was to stimulate discussion, he has succeeded beyond measure.

It may be no coincidence, however, that in this curious, furious Last Hurrah, the focus of the debate has not been Palestine, nor Israel, nor peace, but Jimmy Carter himself.


From Haaretz


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
quart o' homomilk
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posted 15 January 2007 04:30 PM      Profile for quart o' homomilk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi Peech.
I feel like you've probably already been asked this one, but how do you feel about Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, and Winnie Madisha? Are they all mislabelling/disingenuous when they compare Israeli treatment of Palestinians to Apartheid? I mean, hell, forget Carter; Who knows more about apartheid than them?

Second question. Who else will have to say it before you give the possibility a thorough, honest look?


From: saturday | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 15 January 2007 04:36 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If THEY said it then it "must be true".
Just because a falsehood is repeated over and over doesn't convert it to truth. It might be fashionable, just not accurate.

Terry Glavn On The "Wall" (aka fence)


quote:
Mainly, though, my most foul transgression appears to have been to stray from the fashionable anti-Zionist metanarrative so far as to note in passing that Israel’s so-called apartheid wall is actually almost entirely a wire fence, built following a wave of terrorist attacks, especially a June 2001 suicide bombing that killed 21 people and injured 120 at a Tel Aviv disco.

From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
quart o' homomilk
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posted 15 January 2007 04:38 PM      Profile for quart o' homomilk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But, Peech, I didn't ask you to accept it as truth because they said it. I asked if you would take a sober second look.
From: saturday | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 15 January 2007 04:54 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Terry Glavn On The "Wall" (aka fence)

Is that the only apologist for racist terror you have peech? Did you ever answer my questions? How do you defend Israels racism? Are you a racist, yourself? Is that how you do it?

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Khimia
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posted 15 January 2007 04:59 PM      Profile for Khimia     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the link to the Glavin article Peech, now that's what I call a sober 2nd look.
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quart o' homomilk
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posted 15 January 2007 05:02 PM      Profile for quart o' homomilk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If the wall was only about defense, then why didn't they build it on the Green Line?

Why build it where it leaves Palestinian villages on the "wrong" side? Wouldn't that just endanger more Israeli lives since a Palestinian town is just a potential threat...Why sacrifice a bit of safety just to defend some nice parts of the W. Bank and settler areas?

Edited becuzz i hav no grammerr

[ 15 January 2007: Message edited by: quart o' homomilk ]


From: saturday | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 15 January 2007 05:03 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quart o' homomilk:
But, Peech, I didn't ask you to accept it as truth because they said it. I asked if you would take a sober second look.

Difficult to do when one is drunk with self-righteous arrogance against the whole world (because the whole world are anti-Semites - didn't you know that? Hunh!).


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 15 January 2007 05:12 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
News flash: Carter is not alone. Here is another propaganda sheet - obviously some anti-Semitic rag - accusing the only democratic, nice, squeaky-clean-kinda-like-us government in the Middle East of anti-Arab racism:

Down with racism (Ha'aretz editorial today)

quote:
A few hours after U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice came to Israel on another diplomatic mission, she hastened to meet with Strategic Threats Minister Avigdor Lieberman. Rice met Lieberman two days after the chairwoman of his Yisrael Beiteinu faction, MK Esterina Tartman, made crudely racist statements against the appointment (which has meanwhile been postponed) of MK Raleb Majadele as the first Arab minister in the country's history. [...]

Rice's meeting with Lieberman was like giving a stamp of approval to the racist positions he and his party have adopted. [...] Her meeting with Lieberman thus constituted a kind of American recognition of his status and his stances. Instead of the United States denouncing his racist positions, it has given them support, in the form of a well-publicized and unnecessary meeting.[...]

If Israel expects loyalty from its Arab citizens, it must demonstrate loyalty to them and protect them from racist assaults. The fact that it is ignoring these statements, and not making any effort to uproot this evil, therefore stains the entire government with a serious moral blemish.



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quart o' homomilk
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posted 15 January 2007 05:22 PM      Profile for quart o' homomilk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's good to know that there are more dissenting voices in that paper besides just Gideon Levy and Amira Hass.
From: saturday | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 15 January 2007 05:28 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quart o' homomilk:
It's good to know that there are more dissenting voices in that paper besides just Gideon Levy and Amira Hass.

Actually, you're right, I was kind of pleasantly surprised. I don't read it religiously (no pun intended), but when I do, I get the occasional reassurance that the Jewish tradition of dissent and criticism and scorn of blind faith is still alive, even in a major Israeli newspaper.


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Coyote
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posted 15 January 2007 07:38 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All these smears about "Arab money" are uncomfortably similar to the traditional slanders against the Jewish community. I hope no progressive-minded person would be party to this ugly sort of attack.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 15 January 2007 07:46 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
All these smears about "Arab money" are uncomfortably similar to the traditional slanders against the Jewish community.

I agree. In fact, all the slanders once used against Jews to justify their persecution are now in vogue when used against Muslims.


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 15 January 2007 08:07 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peech:
If THEY said it then it "must be true".
Just because a falsehood is repeated over and over doesn't convert it to truth. It might be fashionable, just not accurate.

Terry Glavn On The "Wall" (aka fence)




You seem to rely quite a bit on Terry Glavin's material in the Georgia Straight.

When did Glavin become an authority on the Middle East or on foreign policy matters generally? In the past he has written about Native issues, forestry and fishing. When did he become an expert on Israel and Palestine?


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 15 January 2007 08:19 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
All these smears about "Arab money" are uncomfortably similar to the traditional slanders against the Jewish community. I hope no progressive-minded person would be party to this ugly sort of attack.

If it was fair game to question one President's financial ties (G.W. Bush and Bush Sr. in alliance with the Saudis) as was done vigorously (playing fast and loose with the facts) by Michael Moore to show a bias,
then how is it that questioning another President's (Carter's) allegiance with other sectors and factions in the Arab world which could likely affect his bias, is alleged to be a "smear?"

[ 15 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 15 January 2007 08:22 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Terry Glavin: bio
From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 15 January 2007 08:27 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peech:

If it was fair game to question one President's finical ties (G.W. Bush and Bush Sr. in alliance with the Saudis) as was done vigorously (playing fast and loose with the facts) by Michael Moore to show a bias,


Frankly, I thought Michael Moore's film was terrible - scandalmongering, based on speculation not facts (like many of his films), and calculated to impress a U.S. audience so backward in consciousness that he had to invent conspiracy theories (Bush and Bin Laden) in order to get their attention.

It was almost as if the U.S. had no financial or strategic interests in the Middle East - just some family business connections.

It was embarrassing at best, and dangerous distortion at worst.

Now, what were you saying about Carter?


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Cueball
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posted 15 January 2007 08:32 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I kindof agree on that score, though Moore has a way of getting across contraditions.

However, another problem I had with the whole Bush-Saudi oil sheiks theme in Farenheight 9/11, was the subtle sense of anti-arab xenophobia regarding Arabs taking over America. Same xenophobic paradigm just inverted to attack others.

[ 15 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 15 January 2007 08:52 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree, it was the weakest part of that movie.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 15 January 2007 08:59 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Someone should close or preserve this thread, because everyone agrees on something.
From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 15 January 2007 09:11 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or maybe just a thank-you note to Michael Moore, for giving us something to unite against.
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Cueball
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posted 15 January 2007 09:17 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, well, in the intellectual desert of the American media, Moore is an oasis, if not civilization iteself.
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farnival
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posted 16 January 2007 01:13 PM      Profile for farnival     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peech:
Terry Glavin: bio

quote:
In 2006, Glavin came under fire from progressives and anti-war activists for a Georgia Straight column in which he had expressed support of the American and Israeli positions in the July 2006 invasion of Lebanon.

a position widely condemned the world over and likely to cause the electoral defeat of our dear PM Steve, who parrotted the same line. Can someone say "measured response"?

and this makes Glavin a quoteable authority? does he like cluster bombs? and targeting civilian infrastructure, which is a war crime in international law? try again peech.

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: farnival ]


From: where private gain trumps public interest, and apparently that's just dandy. | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
melovesproles
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posted 16 January 2007 02:14 PM      Profile for melovesproles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Glavin is a Hitchens like hawk on foreign policy, he likes shrilly attacking and smearing the left for being apologists for Islamofascism, budding anti-semites, yada yada...

Its really too bad, I like a lot of his columns on more local issues but on foreign policy he is pure ad hominem and distortion.

'Fahrenheit 911' was a real missed opportunity of a movie, Moore couldn't even include the word PNAC? 'Why We Fight' was much much better and what Fahrenheit should have been.


From: BC | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 16 January 2007 03:59 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
accusing the only democratic, nice, squeaky-clean-kinda-like-us government in the Middle East of anti-Arab racism:

But there is no reason that a democratic, "kinda-like-us" government might not have racists in it.

In other words, the fact that there are racists in the Israeli government does not mean that it is undemocratic.

I won't say Steve is racist, since I don't know. Here in Ontario, we had a racist Premier, Mike Harris, not so long ago.


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M. Spector
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posted 16 January 2007 08:59 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tell Amazon to Treat Carter's Book Fairly
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 16 January 2007 09:24 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for that.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
quart o' homomilk
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posted 16 January 2007 10:13 PM      Profile for quart o' homomilk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He must have gone to the Joan Peters School of Book Review.

quote:
Carter does not recognize the fact that Israel, tired of the burdens of occupation, also dearly wants to give up the bulk of its West Bank settlements (the current prime minister, Ehud Olmert, was elected on exactly this platform) because to do so would fatally undermine the thesis of his book.

Seeing is believing.


From: saturday | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
DavidMR
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posted 16 January 2007 10:44 PM      Profile for DavidMR        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peech:
Terry Glavin: bio

I read this bio sketch once before when one of your earlier posts offered it as background on Glavin's expertise. It basically says what I said. Glavin has authored books on Native issues and on forestry and fisheries.


"His first book, A Death Feast in Dimlahamid (1990), dealt with the struggles of the Gitksan and Wet'su-we'ten peoples, drawing on an account of the oral traditions of Dimlahamid, also known as Temlaham, an ancient city said to have existed in that region. His second book, Nemiah: The Unconquered Country (1992), a cultural and historical account of British Columbia's Chilcotin District, included some of the Tsilhqot'in people's perspective on the Chilcotin War of 1864.

Among his best known works is The Last Great Sea: A Voyage Through the Human and Natural History of the North Pacific Ocean (2000), which was nominated for the Bill Duthie Prize and the Roderick Haig-Brown Prize, and was the winner of the Hubert Evans Non-Fiction Prize.

In 2006, Glavin came under fire from progressives and anti-war activists for a Georgia Straight column in which he had expressed support of the American and Israeli positions in the July 2006 invasion of Lebanon."


Last year Glavin became involved in a controversy over his Georgia Straight opinion columns on Mid East events. That doesn't answer the question I asked, which is when or how Glavin became some kind of expert on these issues. Since he has never written anything on this topic besides his newspaper columns, I am wondering if these columns are simply meant to generate publicity or if he is acting as the public face of some one else with more developed views on the subject.


From: Greater Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 17 January 2007 07:15 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
Tell Amazon to Treat Carter's Book Fairly

That petition seems to be going like gang busters.

12,000 signatures so far. I see a David heap signed, is that the former MP?:

12249. David Heap London, Ontario Canada post the reviews by Yossi Beilin and Shulamit Aloni at the top!

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 January 2007 07:54 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I went to a talk yesterday by As'ad AbuKhalil (the guy who does the Angry Arab News Service blog). It was fantastic.

And he had nothing good to say of Jimmy Carter. I would summarize his comments about Carter as: too little, too late, and totally hypocritical considering that when he could have done something for the Palestinians, he didn't, but instead supported Israeli aggression, just as all the other Presidents have.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 17 January 2007 07:58 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, but really, could he have done something about it? Or were his hands tied by the nature of the office?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 17 January 2007 08:42 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I went to a talk yesterday by As'ad AbuKhalil (the guy who does the Angry Arab News Service blog). It was fantastic.


I'm surprised that you'd go to the speech of someone commenting on Israeli/Palestinian issues without reviewing a full disclosure of their funding sources, Michelle. For shame!


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 17 January 2007 08:55 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

And he had nothing good to say of Jimmy Carter. I would summarize his comments about Carter as: too little, too late, and totally hypocritical considering that when he could have done something for the Palestinians, he didn't, but instead supported Israeli aggression, just as all the other Presidents have.


Too harsh and ahistorical.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 January 2007 09:01 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, as I said, I was oversimplifying.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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