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Thousands of terrified Indian Christians are hiding in the forests of the volatile Indian state of Orissa after a wave of religious 'cleansing' forced them from their burnt-out homes with no immediate prospect of return.

A mob of Hindu fundamentalists rampaged through villages last week, killing those too slow to get out of their way, burning churches and an orphanage, and targeting the homes of Christians. Up to 20 people were reported dead, with at least two deliberately set alight, after the murder of a Hindu leader last Saturday provoked the violence.

In some districts, entire villages lay deserted, abandoned by Christian populations who would rather shelter in the forests than return to face the risk of death. Some villagers attempted to return to their homes yesterday despite threats of further violence.

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Meanwhile in the real world:

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Christians comprise a tiny minority of India's population of about one billion. The church enjoys a high profile, however. This is partly because the Anglican Church was British India's "established" religion with fine properties in prime areas of every city. In addition, the country's best schools are run mainly by Catholics.

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India's Hindu-Christian Tension Has Political Overtones

What's at the heart of this issue? A comparison of the contest of value and moral superiority, between theological world views, or as Unionist would have it, the relative fighting skills of Jesus and Shiva?

Without at doubt I would place my bets on one of the multi-armed Hindu gods, over Jesus, but I might as well be considering a combat between Mickey Mouse and Superman. So what would be the point of that? This kind of discourse is rather like a group of teenage "sci-fi" readers thumbing their nose as pre-teens who are obsessing about their comic-book collection.

Where was I? Oh yes, the real world. In the real world most conflicts that have religious overtones, are actually about politics: Power. In this case colonial politics playing out in the long view, where the descendants of those who thought it was "politic" to join cause with the powerful British empire, are still hanging on their positions of privilege, against a background of a majority who still begrudge the betrayal.

Pretending that conflicts with Islam and Christians, or Jews, and Hindus and Muslims and Christians has more to do with the ideologies of faith, than it does to root political causes is only feeding into a mythology that finesses actual responsibility for the crimes of an empire that miraculously changed its spots in the late 19th century, and started arguing that is was acting "for the benefit of all", because of its enlightened ideas, not because of its religious acumen, but still asserting its inate ideological superirority, and the right to act on that superiority "for the benefit of all.

How long are so-called “atheist” Babblers going to promote this hocus-pocus?

Yet another opportunity for white folks to rally round the wagon, and thumb their noses at the uncivilized practices of unwashed in an effort to justify their belief in "western superiority", whether it is manifested in the robes of a monk, or a chemists lab coat, while conveniently sidestepping the real issues at the heart of the grievance, which pertains as much to the advocates of rationalist science, as it does to any Christian mythology.

Western rationalism in the service of empire can evidence a superior moral framework in terms of social relations than religious mythology?

"It's pretty to think so."

[ 31 August 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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The octogenarian Marxist chief minister of West Bengal, Jyoti Basu, was educated by Loreto nuns and Jesuit priests. George Fernandes, the Indian defense minister, was born a Catholic.

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Originally posted by Cueball:

How long are so-called “atheist” Babblers going to promote this hocus-pocus?

Yet another opportunity for white folks to rally round the wagon,

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You should give up your obsession with religion and watch your mouth. My very first post set the record straight on the White Western supremacist attitudes reflected in these "horror" stories about "inferior" South Asian fanatics murdering each other over religion. If you could overcome your frenzy for 2 seconds, you would have seen that.

So rant on and on, be blind to who your allies are, and embrace your enemies.

ETA: Actually, with all due respect to Doug, this thread and the opening article are nothing but the colonizers, who created these horrendous problems, gloating over how superior they are to the people to whom they bequeathed partition and religious strife and disenfranchisment. I tried to ridicule and denounce this subtly by posting an article about those really responsible for "fundamentalism" and violence in this world - the U.S. imperialists - but the whole topic is so fucking poisonous that now we have someone leaping up and down about "atheists".

This damned thread should be shut down, and people should stopping gasping in horror at what the victims of imperialism do to each other. Look to your own damned homes first.

[ 31 August 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

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Originally posted by remind:
I fail to see how they are persecuted if they were the one who basically initiated said attack upon themselves, by killing a Hindu leader last week.

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From the article:

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It was claims by the VHP that Christians were to blame for the deaths that acted as a trigger for the killing spree, although Maoist guerillas have since claimed responsibility for the murders. Reports said that about 30 Maoists opened fire on the ashram. A spokesman for the People's Liberation Guerrilla Army said it had targeted Saraswati, who had campaigned against conversions and the killing of cows, for 'fascist activities'.

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Originally posted by unionist:

You should give up your obsession with religion and watch your mouth. My very first post set the record straight on the White Western supremacist attitudes reflected in these "horror" stories about "inferior" South Asian fanatics murdering each other over religion. If you could overcome your frenzy for 2 seconds, you would have seen that.

So rant on and on, be blind to who your allies are, and embrace your enemies.

ETA: Actually, with all due respect to Doug, this thread and the opening article are nothing but the colonizers, who created these horrendous problems, gloating over how superior they are to the people to whom they bequeathed partition and religious strife and disenfranchisment. I tried to ridicule and denounce this subtly by posting an article about those really responsible for "fundamentalism" and violence in this world - the U.S. imperialists - but the whole topic is so fucking poisonous that now we have someone leaping up and down about "atheists".

This damned thread should be shut down, and people should stopping gasping in horror at what the victims of imperialism do to each other. Look to your own damned homes first.

[ 31 August 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

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Fair enough, up until your second pose, when you simply could not resist the urge to get up on your own favourite hobby horse and mock them:

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Originally posted by unionist:
I think both sides should send their gods into the field to kill each other off. Then the Hindus and the Christians would have no one to make blood sacrifices to.

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And of course this cynical bit of snottyness comes complete with the hidden assumptions that allow you to smugly declaim about "both sides" and their mutual backwardness, and their uncivilized practices, from which you presume your pseudo-rationalism stands aloof, laughing and dictating to the unwashed.

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Originally posted by remind:
I fail to see how they are persecuted if they were the one who basically initiated said attack upon themselves, by killing a Hindu leader last week.

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You should give up your obsession with religion

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[ 01 September 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]