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Author Topic: Israel Kills Hamas Butcher
Wildlife Preserver
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posted 26 September 2004 10:11 PM      Profile for Wildlife Preserver        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Below are excerpts from an article in the Jerusalem Post regarding the successful targeted Israeli attack on a leading Hamas butcher.

The Syrians and Palestinians have demonstrated a level of unmitigated gall we call "chutzpah" in Yiddish. They regularly pay compliments to car bomb and suicide bomb attacks that kill totally innocent people at random. They have the gall to say that a targeted attack that kills no civilians, but kills a deserving military official, is an act of "state terrorism".

The classic definition of "chutzpah" is a person who murders his parents and asks the Court for mercy on the basis that he is an orphan. This is far, far worse.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1096172273655

Nine hours after a car bomb exploded in the Syrian capital on Sunday killing top Hamas terrorist Izz al-Din al-Sheikh Khalil, the Syrian government called the assassination "an Israeli act of state terrorism in the heart of Damascus."

A Syrian Interior Ministry source identified Khalil to the official news agency as a Palestinian citizen "who did not carry out any [organized] activity in Syrian territories," Reuters reported.

While not confirming nor denying involvement in Khalil's death, Israeli officials said he was involved in the transfer of arms from Syria and Lebanon to Hamas hands in the Palestinian territories. Security sources said Khalil, while not as well-known as Hamas political figures, was very closely linked to Hamas cells in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. They also said he gave the orders for the double suicide bombing attack in Beersheba on August 31 that killed 16 Israelis.

(remainder of article not posted)


From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 September 2004 10:46 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Right, so Syria shuts down the Hamas office in Damascus, and all Israel can do is insult the Syrians for their compliance with their wishes. Nice. Excelent politics as well.

Good show!


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 26 September 2004 11:17 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is not al they have done, cueball. They responded with an act of terrorism. I am assuming the Canadian government will not act responsibly and criminalize all donations to Israel as support for a terrorist organization and I assume George W. Bush will be denouncing Israel as a terrorist state.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wildlife Preserver
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posted 26 September 2004 11:20 PM      Profile for Wildlife Preserver        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WingNut:
I assume George W. Bush will be denouncing Israel as a terrorist state.

Not what I expected you to post, given my survey of your overall postings.


From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 26 September 2004 11:24 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't know you were doing a survey! Why didn't you say so. How can I help?
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 26 September 2004 11:26 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Not what I expected you to post, given my survey of your overall postings.


Why do you lie all the time? What survey of Wingnuts posts? How far back? How many/ Or is this just more of your pointless invective and rhetoric?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 26 September 2004 11:28 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aiiieee, an American "attorney" (here we have lawyers), born in 1957. We have found our friend Josh's evil twin!

"Chutzpah", by the way, was a quality of the oppressed.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 26 September 2004 11:47 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is just a new and (barely) improved Algonquin Park Visitor. I'm convinced of it. He's always an attorney from New York (although from a different city each time), and uses a handle with some nature reference in it.
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wildlife Preserver
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posted 27 September 2004 12:22 AM      Profile for Wildlife Preserver        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
This is just a new and (barely) improved Algonquin Park Visitor. I'm convinced of it. He's always an attorney from New York (although from a different city each time), and uses a handle with some nature reference in it.


I don't know who Algonquin Park Visitor is, but I am quite dedicated to environmental causes. I donated a fair amount to help return wolves (imported from Alberta and British Columbia) to Yellowstone Park. I think the Bush Administration's environmental policies (except for withdrawal from the fraudulent Kyoto Treaty) have been deplorable and a disgrace to any leader of any democracy.


From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 27 September 2004 12:26 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I think it is so clever for someone to join Babble, then five seconds later hector us about "butchers". (Can there be a less useful category in all of ideology? It's even more pregnant with prejudice than "terrorist".

Probably on the carefully-shouded "another board" which this fellow used to find us, such qualifies as intelligent deBATE!


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wildlife Preserver
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posted 27 September 2004 12:42 AM      Profile for Wildlife Preserver        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:
Oh, I think it is so clever for someone to join Babble, then five seconds later hector us about "butchers". (Can there be a less useful category in all of ideology? It's even more pregnant with prejudice than "terrorist".

Probably on the carefully-shouded "another board" which this fellow used to find us, such qualifies as intelligent deBATE!


I did not accuse Babble of being butchers. I want to join intelligent debate here and am not looking to hector anyone.


From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 27 September 2004 12:58 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Read, Jeff's sentence for comprehension. "Hector us about Butchers." He din't say that you accused anyone of being a butcher.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wildlife Preserver
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posted 27 September 2004 01:07 AM      Profile for Wildlife Preserver        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Read, Jeff's sentence for comprehension. "Hector us about Butchers." He din't say that you accused anyone of being a butcher.

Sorry, the ferocity of my "welcome" has been a bit off-putting.

[ 27 September 2004: Message edited by: Wildlife Preserver ]


From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 27 September 2004 03:03 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Excelent news! Sharon had finally succeded in internaitonalizing the Palestine war. For years the PLO and other associated groups had forsworn activities outside of Israel/Palestne. Excelent!!!!

Hamas threatens to target Israelis abroad


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wildlife Preserver
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posted 27 September 2004 09:52 AM      Profile for Wildlife Preserver        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Excelent news! Sharon had finally succeded in internaitonalizing the Palestine war. For years the PLO and other associated groups had forsworn activities outside of Israel/Palestne. Excelent!!!!

Hamas threatens to target Israelis abroad


I thought you were for peace and ending the "cycle of violence". I guess last licks have to go to Israel being thrown into the sea, or at the very least the Jews into dhimmitude status.

From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 27 September 2004 10:28 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
sarcasm

n : witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own"--Johathan Swift [syn: irony, satire, caustic remark]


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 27 September 2004 06:05 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I thought you were for peace and ending the "cycle of violence". I guess last licks have to go to Israel being thrown into the sea, or at the very least the Jews into dhimmitude status.

The "cycle of violence" line is a null equation that always ends up benefitting the most powerful, as both sides can be equally faulted for the conflict, while one protagonist reaps the reward of superior military power. I don't think there is a "cycle of violence," I think there is Israeli agression, and mostly reactive violence by Palestinians.

I am glad that you have nuanced your "drive the Jews into the sea" rhetoric, and added another possibility (repression of Jews). It is a start. It is also tacit recognition that no prominent Arab leader has said anything of the sort for nearly fifties. Reffering to it is like suggesting that Gerhard Schroeder's foreign policy should be looked at throught the lens of Ribentrop's speeches supporting greater Germany.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 27 September 2004 09:59 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wildlife Preserver:
I thought you were for peace and ending the "cycle of violence". I guess last licks have to go to Israel being thrown into the sea, or at the very least the Jews into dhimmitude status.

This "cycle of violence" won't end until the occupation does, which isn't tacit approval for the hardline Hamas but rather the recognition that only Israel can disengage at this point, and stop invading other sovereign nations to kill "the enemy". Still a violation of international law, despite all the nonsense we now hear about the "war on terror". I had vague hopes until recently that Sharon might eventually retreat behind his new "security fence", but that nolonger looks at all likely.


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 27 September 2004 10:50 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
Aiiieee, an American "attorney" (here we have lawyers), born in 1957. We have found our friend Josh's evil twin!

Hey...there was another right-wing "josh's evil twin" who had an account on babble a few months ago. Same birth date, lawyer from New York if I remember correctly. Anyone remember that person's handle? It escapes me.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 27 September 2004 10:51 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
This is just a new and (barely) improved Algonquin Park Visitor. I'm convinced of it. He's always an attorney from New York (although from a different city each time), and uses a handle with some nature reference in it.

Aha! That was it!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Patrick Mundy
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posted 28 September 2004 12:39 AM      Profile for Patrick Mundy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An evil man dies.

boo-hoo


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 28 September 2004 12:48 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Mundy:
An evil man dies.

boo-hoo


To each their own.

That's how I felt about Reagan.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 September 2004 01:38 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
An evil man dies.

Sharon assassinated. When? Today?


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 28 September 2004 01:50 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I suppose the Israeli Government doesn't care a whit if their country is thought of as a pariah terrorist state.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 28 September 2004 02:12 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
‘Arab security services helped Israel in Damascus killing’

quote:
DAMASCUS: The killing of a Palestinian militant in Damascus was carried out by Israel with the collaboration of Arab security services, the newspaper of Syria’s ruling Baath party said on Monday. The killing was "a result of the cooperation of Israel and some Arab security services", Al-Baath editor-in-chief Mahdi Dakhlallah told AFP.

Of course it makes sense that the Arab security service would be a Syrian Security service. If so, the paper is outing Syrians. Weird things afoot in Syria, is there a coupe on the horizon? Assad is young and has tender feet, pressure is high -- who knows which way the wind will blow.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Patrick Mundy
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posted 29 September 2004 12:33 AM      Profile for Patrick Mundy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I suppose the Israeli Government doesn't care a whit if their country is thought of as a pariah terrorist state.


I wonder if Middle Eastern countries give a shit for having that very same branding.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 29 September 2004 01:13 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Mundy:


I wonder if Middle Eastern countries give a shit for having that very same branding.


How about the States?

C'mon. Watcha got? Huh? Let's do this thing.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 29 September 2004 02:18 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
C'mon guys there is some pretty serious stuff going on here in regard to the future of Syria, it could get interesting. No need to get obssessed with rhetorical polemics.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 29 September 2004 08:30 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that it is obviously harder for Assad to do what we might call "the full Qaddafi" -- he does not control his own population so totally, and he is nearer to the centre of the action.

But it seems reasonable to think that Assad is just as nervous of the USians; and further, there have been signs for a long time that he and the USians find each other useful. That Assad and Sharon would become surreptitious allies seems a logical next step.

In the long run -- if there is a long run -- it's obviously a stupid thing for him to do; but really, what choice has he got?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 29 September 2004 10:44 AM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rumours of tacit Israeli/Arab operations go back a little, and are quite fascinating. There are the more famous examples, such as of supposed Israeli support for Jordan during Black September when the PLO was routed and expelled after trying to topple the kingdom. Israel also used Jordanian airspace to destroy that Iraqi nuke plant back in the 80s, and it's reasonable to assume Jordan wasn't really as surprised or indignant as it pretended to be. Further to skdadl's point, there was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's assassination in Iraq on eve of the invasion. Were elements in the Baath party trying to rid themselves of a wild card, or telling their soon-to-be occupiers that they were on side? I'm sure this sort of thing goes on all the time, only the Arab leadership can't really come out and say it, since state manufactured hatred of the Zionist entity is a vital part of their governance. In truth, when it comes to oppressing Arabs, the governments of Israel and the Arab nations are as much competitors as adversaries
From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 29 September 2004 10:56 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In truth, when it comes to oppressing Arabs, the governments of Israel and the Arab nations are as much competitors as adversaries

Some Arab nations, praenomen, and sometimes they are not just competitors but collaborators. The mix would vary, depending on which other nation we're talking about, and further, depending on how entangled the USians are with each.

Oh, the permutations and combinations, eh?

I must say, I think that it is not only the people of the Arab states who are oppressed by this unholy alliance of powerful bastards, but also the people of Israel. It would be nice to see them wake up one day soon to the ways they are being manipulated by their own bastards and the evil alliances they concoct.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 29 September 2004 11:48 AM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[QB]Excelent news! Sharon had finally succeded in internaitonalizing the Palestine war. For years the PLO and other associated groups had forsworn activities outside of Israel/Palestne. Excelent!!!!QB]

It's already happened - this thread is infecting the "Rest of the World" forum. (To your point, though, two words - Munich '72)


From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Patrick Mundy
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posted 29 September 2004 02:42 PM      Profile for Patrick Mundy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
How about the States?

C'mon. Watcha got? Huh? Let's do this thing.


Oh man...I can't believe you actually said. "C'mon. Watcha got? Huh? Let's do this thing."

Well I'll do my best. How about the fact that the United States' military actions are that of the state, approved and CONTROLLED by the government. Terrorists hide, and no one state has, with KNOWN government approval, attacked the U.S. since Pearl Harbour.

Terrorists do not have a state, and there's no lone or rogue Americans (like there are other states) that are operating independent of the U.S. government's approval, committing acts of terror.

A terrorist state is labelled as so for having knowledge of terrorists residing in said state, and though not necessarily outright supporting them, but are not pursuing them either - Let them going about their business.

So to answer with a similar low brow rhetoric

"So what you got now, huh? Bring it"

Thanks.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 29 September 2004 02:48 PM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Mundy:
...A terrorist state is labelled as so for having knowledge of terrorists residing in said state, and though not necessarily outright supporting them, but are not pursuing them either - Let them going about their business...

That's a pretty accurate description of most western European countries up until 9/11


From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Merowe
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posted 29 September 2004 03:07 PM      Profile for Merowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't even know why I'm bothering; perhaps the heavy cold that is muddling my brain...but anyway, I wade gently in:

'approved and CONTROLLED by the government'

- hilarious line, not a whiff of irony in it. Sharon and Bush as paradigms of 'control', etc.

No, on second thoughts, I'm not going to bother. Why should I? I'll wait till the kiddies have finished their primary education, I just don't have the patience.

Likewise the lame swipe at western Europe: don't suppose any overthrown military dictators ever flee to the United States, eh? Nah, never happens. Or, hee hee, this guy Allawi - nothing faintly terroristicky about him, nope.


From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 29 September 2004 03:14 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is of course the Cuban terrorists released from a Panama jail who just found homes in the United States. One was convicted of blowing up a passenger plane killing all 74 aboard. Just like a Chechnyan, no? But, hey, they are good terrorists, right?

Or how about those contras choosing only "soft" targets at the behest of their US paymasters? How many babies did they kill? But it was okay!They were good terrorists too.

You apologists make me sick.


From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 29 September 2004 03:20 PM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Mundy:

A terrorist state is labelled as so for having knowledge of terrorists residing in said state, and though not necessarily outright supporting them, but are not pursuing them either - Let them going about their business.

Like this?


From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Patrick Mundy
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posted 29 September 2004 03:20 PM      Profile for Patrick Mundy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Merowe, I didn't say Sharon, I said the United States.

You'll be hard pressed to find a terrorist or military act by an American that's independent of their government's approval, or if it was, was not punished accordingly.

I am not saying that the United States has not done immoral things, but that it was the decision of the state, not of individuals. You're more than free to call the American government evil and immoral. Go ahead, I could care less, that's not my point.

My point is, is that's it is not terrorism. You'll find things easier to understand if you just take in the reality of the situation, instead of the "feelings" of the sitation.

I'm sorry I make you sick, by all means take the rest of the day off, as it seems the content of my post has made you emotionally unstable.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 29 September 2004 03:21 PM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
True, Germany's done more than most in this regard, but it took the Munich affair to get the ball rolling. And the Brandt government's staged hijacking for PR purposes was not their finest hour.
From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 September 2004 02:07 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It's already happened - this thread is infecting the "Rest of the World" forum. (To your point, though, two words - Munich '72)


Shortly after the spate of international attack during the 70's almost all Palestinian miltant organization explictly announced that they would contain their military activities internal to Palestine/Israel. It was decided within the PLO that activities such as Munich etc, were bad PR. You may have noticed the derth of Palestinian sponsored hijackings, embasssy bombings and the like for the last 20 years outside of Israel. I'd say the concrete evidence is that the Palestinian militants have stuck to their promise.

This is an Israeli escalation, and another example of Sharon's brinksmanship and his willingness to break any agreement, formal or tacit.

[ 30 September 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 30 September 2004 02:25 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
no one state has, with KNOWN government approval, attacked the U.S. since Pearl Harbour.

Hawaii wasn't part of the US at the time. It was occupied illegally by an Imperialist state that used terror and genocide to subdue the native population. But we all knew that, didn't we?

Anyway, your definition is self-serving, simplistic, ignorant, and false. Just because a "state' approves an action, it isn't terrorism? Bomber Harris and Goering would laugh in your face, and tell you that terror is exactly the feeling they were going for in their performances. In fact, that's exactly what they called it.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 30 September 2004 01:10 PM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Shortly after the spate of international attack during the 70's almost all Palestinian miltant organization explictly announced that they would contain their military activities internal to Palestine/Israel. It was decided within the PLO that activities such as Munich etc, were bad PR. You may have noticed the derth of Palestinian sponsored hijackings, embasssy bombings and the like for the last 20 years outside of Israel. I'd say the concrete evidence is that the Palestinian militants have stuck to their promise...

I just found an interesting Guardian piece on this subject - the author makes the case that the PLO wound down its European operations because they had effectively "won" and reached a tacit understanding with Europe. The Harvard prof who wrote it is tough on the PLO, but he fairly notes that virtually all nations have been involved in terrorism at some point: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,788358,00.html


From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 September 2004 04:51 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good that you raised this. In a sense they won.

They did achieve status at the UN and they also achieved status in the Arab world. The PLO began as a loose group of organizations sponsored by a variety of Arab countries, managing to define a politcal space between the competing Arab power blocks. So not only did the end of the seventies mark the point where the PLO was recognized in Europe but it also achieved recognition in the Arab world as an independent entity, seprate both from the Nasserite Nationalist (the front-line states who claimed ownership of the Palestinian struggle) but also the Traditionalist states such as the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (whom also, at their politcal conveinience claimed ownership of the Palestinian struggle.)

An interesting transformation happened after Sadat's treaty with Israel, in that the Front-line states cooled in their relationship with the PLO, and the Palestinian cause, while the Gulf States, in particullar Saudi Arabia became the chief backer of the Palestinian cause and the PLO.

The Palestinian ball has been booted around the Arab world for so many decades and the result was its transformation of a loose grouping of various political tendencies into an independent discreet political entity called the PLO. This entity developed parrallel power structures within all of its host countries and became as much of an annoyance to their hosts as they were to the Israelis.

Nonetheless, the fact is that the Palestinian militant organizations such as the PFLP of George Habash explicitly announced that they were not going to engage in activities outside of the Palestine/Israel region, known to them as the "internal area." And continued to modify its position under his successor, Abu Ali Mustapha in the direction of appeasing Fatah's desire to seek a truce and peace accord with Israel under Oslo. Mustapha was assassinated in 2000, under the orders fo Areil Sharon, and he was replaced by a much more radicalized leader (Sadat.)

Even the IDF report that read on the Mustapha assassination, essentially admitted that the assassination of Mustapha (the first targetted killing of a Palestinian leader) succeeded in radicalizing the PFLP, not pacifying it. The immediate response was the PFLP assassination of the (Sharon's long time friend) Israels Tourism minister and Arch-transferist, Ze'evi (AKA Ghandi.) In a large part the siege of Arafat's Ramallah compound was made with the objective of capturing the leadership of the PFLP whom organized this assassination. It succeeded.

The reason the I bring this up is because it reveals a patern to Sharon's thinking that is present in this most recent assassination in Syria. When Sharon ordered the assassination of Mustapha he knew that he was breaking an tacit understanding bewteen the parties in conflict that neither Israel nor the Palestinians would target top officials. In doing so escalated the terms of the conflict, resulting in direct attacks against Israeli leadership, that then justifed further far reaching attacks against Palestinians.

Likewise this assassination is an escalation of the conflict beyond the borders of Israel. My conclusion is that Sharon intends to internationalize the conflict in the shadow of the "US war on terror," so that his enemies become our enemies, for the express purposes of justifying a military solution to the Israeli conflict with Palestinians.

It is in a sense a form of entrapment (in the legal sense). He creates a situation were it is politcally impossible for his enemies not to respond with violence, and then when they do, he esclates the violence again.

His Paramount objective is not the extermination of the Palestinian people, but he believes that Israel's ultimate security can only be achieved when there is no other active force that lays any claim to the territory he defines as Israel. If that is to be achieved the Palestinian politcal organizations must be destroyed, in particular that independent discreet political entity called the PLO in its present form as the PA.

[ 30 September 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 07 October 2004 06:08 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Blast at Egyptian Hotel Causes Casualties

quote:
Taba is the main crossing between Israel and Egypt and the gateway for thousands of Israelis who travel to the hotels and resorts on the Red Sea. Thursday is the last day of the weeklong Jewish festival of Sukkot, when thousands of Israelis vacation in the Sinai.


The internationalization of the conflict become a reality.

[ 07 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged

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