Author
|
Topic: Israel Kills Hamas Butcher
|
Wildlife Preserver
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6958
|
posted 26 September 2004 10:11 PM
Below are excerpts from an article in the Jerusalem Post regarding the successful targeted Israeli attack on a leading Hamas butcher.The Syrians and Palestinians have demonstrated a level of unmitigated gall we call "chutzpah" in Yiddish. They regularly pay compliments to car bomb and suicide bomb attacks that kill totally innocent people at random. They have the gall to say that a targeted attack that kills no civilians, but kills a deserving military official, is an act of "state terrorism". The classic definition of "chutzpah" is a person who murders his parents and asks the Court for mercy on the basis that he is an orphan. This is far, far worse. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1096172273655 Nine hours after a car bomb exploded in the Syrian capital on Sunday killing top Hamas terrorist Izz al-Din al-Sheikh Khalil, the Syrian government called the assassination "an Israeli act of state terrorism in the heart of Damascus." A Syrian Interior Ministry source identified Khalil to the official news agency as a Palestinian citizen "who did not carry out any [organized] activity in Syrian territories," Reuters reported. While not confirming nor denying involvement in Khalil's death, Israeli officials said he was involved in the transfer of arms from Syria and Lebanon to Hamas hands in the Palestinian territories. Security sources said Khalil, while not as well-known as Hamas political figures, was very closely linked to Hamas cells in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. They also said he gave the orders for the double suicide bombing attack in Beersheba on August 31 that killed 16 Israelis. (remainder of article not posted)
From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wildlife Preserver
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6958
|
posted 27 September 2004 12:42 AM
quote: Originally posted by jeff house: Oh, I think it is so clever for someone to join Babble, then five seconds later hector us about "butchers". (Can there be a less useful category in all of ideology? It's even more pregnant with prejudice than "terrorist".Probably on the carefully-shouded "another board" which this fellow used to find us, such qualifies as intelligent deBATE!
I did not accuse Babble of being butchers. I want to join intelligent debate here and am not looking to hector anyone.
From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Wildlife Preserver
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6958
|
posted 27 September 2004 01:07 AM
quote: Originally posted by Cueball: Read, Jeff's sentence for comprehension. "Hector us about Butchers." He din't say that you accused anyone of being a butcher.
Sorry, the ferocity of my "welcome" has been a bit off-putting. [ 27 September 2004: Message edited by: Wildlife Preserver ]
From: Cranbrook, BC | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
|
posted 29 September 2004 10:56 AM
quote: In truth, when it comes to oppressing Arabs, the governments of Israel and the Arab nations are as much competitors as adversaries
Some Arab nations, praenomen, and sometimes they are not just competitors but collaborators. The mix would vary, depending on which other nation we're talking about, and further, depending on how entangled the USians are with each. Oh, the permutations and combinations, eh? I must say, I think that it is not only the people of the Arab states who are oppressed by this unholy alliance of powerful bastards, but also the people of Israel. It would be nice to see them wake up one day soon to the ways they are being manipulated by their own bastards and the evil alliances they concoct.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Patrick Mundy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6576
|
posted 29 September 2004 02:42 PM
quote: Originally posted by Coyote: How about the States?C'mon. Watcha got? Huh? Let's do this thing.
Oh man...I can't believe you actually said. "C'mon. Watcha got? Huh? Let's do this thing." Well I'll do my best. How about the fact that the United States' military actions are that of the state, approved and CONTROLLED by the government. Terrorists hide, and no one state has, with KNOWN government approval, attacked the U.S. since Pearl Harbour. Terrorists do not have a state, and there's no lone or rogue Americans (like there are other states) that are operating independent of the U.S. government's approval, committing acts of terror. A terrorist state is labelled as so for having knowledge of terrorists residing in said state, and though not necessarily outright supporting them, but are not pursuing them either - Let them going about their business. So to answer with a similar low brow rhetoric "So what you got now, huh? Bring it" Thanks.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Merowe
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4020
|
posted 29 September 2004 03:07 PM
Don't even know why I'm bothering; perhaps the heavy cold that is muddling my brain...but anyway, I wade gently in:'approved and CONTROLLED by the government' - hilarious line, not a whiff of irony in it. Sharon and Bush as paradigms of 'control', etc. No, on second thoughts, I'm not going to bother. Why should I? I'll wait till the kiddies have finished their primary education, I just don't have the patience. Likewise the lame swipe at western Europe: don't suppose any overthrown military dictators ever flee to the United States, eh? Nah, never happens. Or, hee hee, this guy Allawi - nothing faintly terroristicky about him, nope.
From: Dresden, Germany | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Patrick Mundy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6576
|
posted 29 September 2004 03:20 PM
Merowe, I didn't say Sharon, I said the United States.You'll be hard pressed to find a terrorist or military act by an American that's independent of their government's approval, or if it was, was not punished accordingly. I am not saying that the United States has not done immoral things, but that it was the decision of the state, not of individuals. You're more than free to call the American government evil and immoral. Go ahead, I could care less, that's not my point. My point is, is that's it is not terrorism. You'll find things easier to understand if you just take in the reality of the situation, instead of the "feelings" of the sitation. I'm sorry I make you sick, by all means take the rest of the day off, as it seems the content of my post has made you emotionally unstable.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790
|
posted 30 September 2004 02:07 AM
quote: It's already happened - this thread is infecting the "Rest of the World" forum. (To your point, though, two words - Munich '72)
Shortly after the spate of international attack during the 70's almost all Palestinian miltant organization explictly announced that they would contain their military activities internal to Palestine/Israel. It was decided within the PLO that activities such as Munich etc, were bad PR. You may have noticed the derth of Palestinian sponsored hijackings, embasssy bombings and the like for the last 20 years outside of Israel. I'd say the concrete evidence is that the Palestinian militants have stuck to their promise. This is an Israeli escalation, and another example of Sharon's brinksmanship and his willingness to break any agreement, formal or tacit. [ 30 September 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322
|
posted 30 September 2004 02:25 AM
quote: no one state has, with KNOWN government approval, attacked the U.S. since Pearl Harbour.
Hawaii wasn't part of the US at the time. It was occupied illegally by an Imperialist state that used terror and genocide to subdue the native population. But we all knew that, didn't we? Anyway, your definition is self-serving, simplistic, ignorant, and false. Just because a "state' approves an action, it isn't terrorism? Bomber Harris and Goering would laugh in your face, and tell you that terror is exactly the feeling they were going for in their performances. In fact, that's exactly what they called it.
From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790
|
posted 30 September 2004 04:51 PM
Good that you raised this. In a sense they won. They did achieve status at the UN and they also achieved status in the Arab world. The PLO began as a loose group of organizations sponsored by a variety of Arab countries, managing to define a politcal space between the competing Arab power blocks. So not only did the end of the seventies mark the point where the PLO was recognized in Europe but it also achieved recognition in the Arab world as an independent entity, seprate both from the Nasserite Nationalist (the front-line states who claimed ownership of the Palestinian struggle) but also the Traditionalist states such as the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (whom also, at their politcal conveinience claimed ownership of the Palestinian struggle.) An interesting transformation happened after Sadat's treaty with Israel, in that the Front-line states cooled in their relationship with the PLO, and the Palestinian cause, while the Gulf States, in particullar Saudi Arabia became the chief backer of the Palestinian cause and the PLO. The Palestinian ball has been booted around the Arab world for so many decades and the result was its transformation of a loose grouping of various political tendencies into an independent discreet political entity called the PLO. This entity developed parrallel power structures within all of its host countries and became as much of an annoyance to their hosts as they were to the Israelis. Nonetheless, the fact is that the Palestinian militant organizations such as the PFLP of George Habash explicitly announced that they were not going to engage in activities outside of the Palestine/Israel region, known to them as the "internal area." And continued to modify its position under his successor, Abu Ali Mustapha in the direction of appeasing Fatah's desire to seek a truce and peace accord with Israel under Oslo. Mustapha was assassinated in 2000, under the orders fo Areil Sharon, and he was replaced by a much more radicalized leader (Sadat.) Even the IDF report that read on the Mustapha assassination, essentially admitted that the assassination of Mustapha (the first targetted killing of a Palestinian leader) succeeded in radicalizing the PFLP, not pacifying it. The immediate response was the PFLP assassination of the (Sharon's long time friend) Israels Tourism minister and Arch-transferist, Ze'evi (AKA Ghandi.) In a large part the siege of Arafat's Ramallah compound was made with the objective of capturing the leadership of the PFLP whom organized this assassination. It succeeded. The reason the I bring this up is because it reveals a patern to Sharon's thinking that is present in this most recent assassination in Syria. When Sharon ordered the assassination of Mustapha he knew that he was breaking an tacit understanding bewteen the parties in conflict that neither Israel nor the Palestinians would target top officials. In doing so escalated the terms of the conflict, resulting in direct attacks against Israeli leadership, that then justifed further far reaching attacks against Palestinians. Likewise this assassination is an escalation of the conflict beyond the borders of Israel. My conclusion is that Sharon intends to internationalize the conflict in the shadow of the "US war on terror," so that his enemies become our enemies, for the express purposes of justifying a military solution to the Israeli conflict with Palestinians. It is in a sense a form of entrapment (in the legal sense). He creates a situation were it is politcally impossible for his enemies not to respond with violence, and then when they do, he esclates the violence again. His Paramount objective is not the extermination of the Palestinian people, but he believes that Israel's ultimate security can only be achieved when there is no other active force that lays any claim to the territory he defines as Israel. If that is to be achieved the Palestinian politcal organizations must be destroyed, in particular that independent discreet political entity called the PLO in its present form as the PA. [ 30 September 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790
|
posted 07 October 2004 06:08 PM
Blast at Egyptian Hotel Causes Casualties quote: Taba is the main crossing between Israel and Egypt and the gateway for thousands of Israelis who travel to the hotels and resorts on the Red Sea. Thursday is the last day of the weeklong Jewish festival of Sukkot, when thousands of Israelis vacation in the Sinai.
The internationalization of the conflict become a reality. [ 07 October 2004: Message edited by: Cueball ]
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|