First of all I am a left-of-center, openly gay, member of the Democratic Party. I hold Canada in high regard and value Canada's opinions on a great many subjects, even when I disagree. I am something of a left-wing progressive nationalist, with a mild internationalist streak.

Unfortunately I supported the War in Iraq, not because I believed a word out of Bush's mouth, but because I believed Tony Blair. I WAS WRONG, and America was wrong to support invading Iraq. What we'll leave will be far worse than what was there in the first place. However I do support the war on terror(islamofascism).

In the minds of Canadians what can be done for Americans to win back the respect we've lost.

Canadians would like to see democracy restored in the US, but the real reasons to do so are American reasons, not reasons of US-Canada relations.

First of all, while I am an inhabitant of the "extreme left" [Globe & Mail columnist Doug Saunders's opinion], let me just say that I feel ashamed that so many Canadians see fit to feel superior to U.S.Americans, when they ain't much better. (Really.)

The main thing is to not elect bush. the second thing is to get ahold of your media. Especially the news media. Talk to Edward Herman at "Z" about the incredibly hard, on-going struggle required to change the editorial policies at the "Philadelphia Enquirer" and organize a movement for changing major newspapers and tv channels across the country.

And then, check out that "Harper's" article about abolishing the Senate.

Canada ain't perfect, and the NDP ain't awesome, but at the very least, Canadians still have a faint hope of seeing their desires represented and carried out via the political system.

In my honest, (and hopefully respectful) opinion, the US political system (electoral colleges, elections run by the two main parties, etc., etc., ..) is hopelessly corrupt, and at present, irredeemable. [sp?]

As much as I hate Bush, I cannot see any good reason to vote for Kerry. Kerry's opposed to same-sex marriage, he voted for the war, and he's an arrogant New Englander.

It just seems that Canada is a parallel universe where all things perfect(except gun control and weather) reside.

The New Democratic Party is socially perfect, but on economic issues is pretty scarey. If I were Canadian I'd be a Liberal Party member. I agree with NDP on most social issues(same-sex marriage) but on economic issues I would be in the Paul Martin wing of the Liberal Party.

Canada has alot going for it, and I kinda wish y'all would have apointed Chretien supreme sovereign for life. But even he wasn't perfect.

Then I guess we won't be able to talk again. I have bad gums and teeth, and if you slapped me, I'd be in a world of pain.

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I feel ashamed that so many Canadians see fit to feel superior to U.S.Americans, when they ain't much better.

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Maybe you meant this as a joke, Thwap, since you seem to have a good sense of humour, and I'll respect that.

But I'm tired of this. First of all, you shouldn't feel personally prideful or embarrassed for things you had nothing to do with. That's the kind of nationalism that leads to...well, Hell, actually.

Also, I've spent the entire last year hearing from pretty much everyone about how Canadians feel superior to Americans. I just don't get this. Canadians just don't generally feel superior to anyone. It's a right-wing meme to get us to tone down our criticism of Americans when that criticism is more than justifified. In fact, the only time Canadians start criticising Americans is when they do something stupid. Are we supposed to shut up when that happens?

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Originally posted by Rodney Moore:
The New Democratic Party is socially perfect, but on economic issues is pretty scarey.

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Oh?

Direct pull from the federal NDP issue sheet on fiscal policy, "Jack Layton on balancing the books, each and every year:"

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We can build a green and prosperous economy that leaves no one behind, and balance the books doing it.In fact, over the last 20 years, NDP provincial governments are the most likely to balance the books of any political party – Liberal, Conservative or Parti Québécois. And as a municipal leader, Jack Layton was required by law to balance the books as part of Canada's fifth-largest government, the City of Toronto. Jack Layton and today's NDP have practical solutions on balancing the books:

- We'll balance the budget each and every year.
- We'll make smart choices that listen to what you want, instead of spending billions on expensive corporate tax cuts.
- We'll make life more affordable for families by removing the GST from family essentials such as medicine, books and children's clothing.
- We’ll allow economic growth to reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio, which is already going down fast, naturally.

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- Not directly related to Canada, but a pretty good imminent priority regardless: Demolish Abu Gharib, starting yesterday. Build in its place a secular and independent university. Send Donald Rumsfeld there on a new mission, to get a clue. And may he have better luck in finding one than we had with those WMDs.

- Commit to a fair, standards-based approach to free trade that respects public decision making power and sovereignty. Especially make clear that government may continue to provide for domestic culture.

Oh my how could they be so damn evil!! *Feel the sarcasm*

Canada's healthcare system cost the Canadian citizen roughly $3,500 per annum. But since the Canadian gouvernment has a progressive income tax most of the middle class and poor don't have such a heavy burden.

Tennessee has a program known as TennCare inwhich all children, elderly and people who make under a specific ammount get doctor visits and medication. Tennessee pays out of the general fund roughly 2.5 Billion and the Federal Gov gives matching funds to make it 7.6 Billion dollars. But TennCare covers only 1.55 million Tennesseans. The amount of money that goes to direct profit is astounding. TennCare covers medicine at Tennessee pharmacies, so the tax payers don't get the best deal.

But I find this thread touching. It makes me remember that most Americans didn't ask to be in the situation they're in. And there are lots of American subcultures, both traditional and progressive, that I have considerable respect for.

I don't think at this stage that it's possible to really recreate the harmony of years gone by, or that it would even necessarily be healthy. The harmony of the cold war really came more from a Canada that had little culture of its own, and which politically subordinated any differences to the shared perceived need to stop the Commies. Since then, our cultures have diverged, and increasingly Canada sees itself as an independent nation rather than a colony. The increased economic interdependence, fostered by Canadian elites as much as anything else, is to a fair extent a smokescreen and will probably decrease somewhat over the medium term. I think Canada is increasingly likely over time to take an approach independent of the US one on various issues, and to get in arguments over them, and there's nothing wrong with that; the two countries are neighbours, not Siamese twins.

But that doesn't mean we won't be close, or that it will stop being important to get along. Best things to foster a good relationship? Well, let's see.

Most immediately, there are the trade dispute things. Beef, lumber and whatnot. Basically, it comes down to either stop talking free trade or start practising it. To put it a different way, either we're allowed to create trade barriers where we need them, or the US needs to squash its lobbies when they push for trade barriers that they want. The US is big and tough--they can have it both ways. But we'll be pissed off.

Then there's foreign policy things. This one will help with the opinion of the whole world: The US needs to stop treating people like enemies and/or dim children whenever they take a stance that's different from the American one. Canada and other countries consider themselves nations, not gofers. They have different backgrounds, different interests, different political cultures, they're going to come up with some different answers. If American leaders came to the realization that yes, other countries are *supposed* to be un-American and that's OK, many frictions would ease. Oh yeah, and don't invade anyone. Just say no. Not Iraq, not Grenada, not Panama, just stop doing it. Try hard not to destabilize anyone either. I won't start the list. The US is just kind of frightening to live beside. Sure, we're a first-world democracy and there's sorta unwritten rules that you don't pull that kind of thing on first-world democracies . . . but . . . say the NDP won an election and decided to nationalize something? There just isn't a total confidence that the US government wouldn't decide something had to be done.

Then there's changes that just aren't going to happen. Things like, stop making the export of the worst, most plasticky elements of US corporate media culture a major policy goal. Everyone buys it, but they hate themselves for doing it and the US for pushing it. Things like, be less religious. Seriously--I find American religion, especially the wide reach of evangelical Christianity, the anti-science stuff, the Rapture stuff, the God-hates-fags stuff, I find that subset of religion very frightening and I find the extent of its influence in the United States very frightening. Heck, I find the extent of its influence in *Canada* deeply irritating, and that's a much smaller extent--much of it apparently US derived. If you could wave a magic wand and do one thing to make Canada (well, me anyway) more comfortable with the US and its influence, that one thing would be "scrub the extremist religions out of the country."

I would take it even further. I believe the United States needs to disengage from NATO and end our special(aka retarded) relationship with Israel. We need to be quasi-isolationists. I support the United Nations but get offended when Cuba, Sudan, and other nations hold seats on human rights conditions. IN FACT the only countries that should be allowed to lecture anyone on human rights are Netherlands, Canada, South Africa and the EU as a whole.

I love my country, and for people like me in the US who are liberal and progressive we are maligned. As a gay person I have to hear gay people preach that bigots like Bush and the "God Hates Fags" people should have te freedom of speech to spread lies about us.

I have given alot of thought about immigrating to Canada. I am going on an exchange to Quebec in 2005 for a year. I am also keeping options available in Spain, and the Netherlands.

I have become disolusioned by the current socio-political enviroment.

As a gay man, I feel like a jew in Nazi-Germany just before the Nuremberg Laws depriving rights were written. America is becoming scary and John Kerry is not the savior he likes to think he is.

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Things like, be less religious. Seriously--I find American religion, especially the wide reach of evangelical Christianity, the anti-science stuff, the Rapture stuff, the God-hates-fags stuff, I find that subset of religion very frightening and I find the extent of its influence in the United States very frightening. Heck, I find the extent of its influence in *Canada* deeply irritating, and that's a much smaller extent--much of it apparently US derived. If you could wave a magic wand and do one thing to make Canada (well, me anyway) more comfortable with the US and its influence, that one thing would be "scrub the extremist religions out of the country."

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Should I escape???

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Well, I'd keep a bag packed by the front door, especially around mid-november. If the neighbours ask why you are packing up in such a hurry, just tell them you must visit a sick relative in Omaha, and they might not call Homeland security.

Something bothered me about your first post, though. The term "Islamofascist" in the context of the "war on terror" is disturbing, and brings me to something that America can do to improve its relations not just with Canada, but with the world:
Stop declaring war on everything. War on Drugs, War on Poverty, War on Terror. These are all just manifestations of the real war, the War on the Poor. There is no such thing as "Islamofascist" other than in the fevered imagination of slimeball propagandists like Limbaugh, Novak, or Frum. I don't think Wolfowitz, Cheney, or Rumsfeld even believe that crap. There are dangerous nutcase fundamentalists in Islam just as there are in Christianity and its Apocalypse-thirsting bible thumpers, or Judasim with its like-minded Greater Israel settlers, or the Chicago School of Economics and their Structural Adjustments. They all believe they hold the truth, and will kill you in its name.
Don't let the simplist and false labels that the very real Fascists in tailored suits and power ties use for their enemies lead you to believe that the world's poor are your enemy too.

[ 16 May 2004: Message edited by: Jingles ]

While Hitchens has gone through this neo-con sort of "awakening" he is nevertheless more of an Andrew Sullivan type of neo-con then say a Bushista.

The war on terror makes no sense to me. Because the very enemy that we're fighting is an extremely fanatical, intolerant, homophobic, sexist, anti-secular and anti-semitic Islamofascism. However the war in iraq wasn't a war against Islamofascism, but Baathism. Baathism is a popular pan-arabic, yet secular, front of socialists, stalinists, maoists etc. Not very nice people, but not our enemy either.

I look at Muslims the same way I look at fundamentalist Christians and conservatives. I don't agree with them or like them very much. But as long as they practice their religion in peace and don't attempt to legislate their backwards beliefs on me I have no problem. Muslims in America are still big Bush supporters, because of his venomous opposition to same-sex marriage. Muslims aren't just homophobic, but violently so. When you ask Muslims what they think about homosexuality, same-sex marriage and non-discrimination they all sound like Fred Phelps.

I was raised unchurched, then around 11 I had a religious experience in the form of receiving the Holy Ghost in a United Pentacostal Church. I attended religiously for about 5 years without my family going to Church with the Grisolms every or almost every sunday. I began around 14-15 to study comparative religions, the Quran, and Bahais and Book of Mormon. I read the biography of Malcolm X and was drawn to his post-Meccan hajj form of Islam. The raceless kind, not the Nation Of Islam garbage. I studied critically both the Quran and Old Testament, I re-read the New Testament from a friendly Jehovah's witness. I began to believe that Jesus wasn't God but a servant, prophet and apostle of God. I converted to Islam in private, stopped attending church and began to openly question things. This was happening all during the time of my realisation of my sexual orientation. I jumped from the frying pan into the fire, but luckily what few Muslims I knew weren't extremely devout. I believed in the Quran but not literally. But one day I began to question something in the Quran and was told that for a Muslim I should never doubt a single word of the Quran. It was then I realized I left one fanatical religion for another. I respectfully disagreed and disengaged myself from Islam. I left monotheism at that point, came out to friends, family and others.

I met a wiccan friend who introduced me to wicca, at 18 and I've been wiccan sense. I've dabbled in Episcopalianism, Baha'ism, Old/Liberal Catholicism, Native American spirituality(I'm 1/8+ Cherokee, 1/16 Choctaw), Buddhism, Unity Church and of course Qabballah but remain pretty firmly wiccan.

Wicca meshed well with my sexuality and answered spiritual questions. I feel more at home in a faith like Wicca than I ever would in an alien semitic religion like Islam, Judaism or Christianity. I've come to respect liberal aspects of other religions, but am very distrustfull of those who try to convert me.

Hinterland, you are right, generalizations are bad form. That being said: it is uber-cliche for Canadians travelling abroad to paste a Canadian Flag to their backpack as a way to distinguish themselves from Americans. All fine and dandy. When I travel, I try to act as if I'm a guest. I watch my words and actions closer than in Canada (of course, I've been to some sketchy places where you'd better watch your words and actions).

But if what you say about being embarrassed is true, then why should anyone care about their country's reputation abroad? Why should any US citizen care that their state is reviled?

So, yeah, I was embarrassed by a pack of jackass Canadians shouting and yelling obscenities and being really, very typical "american" tourists, but somehow thinking that flag on their backpack gave them immunity.

So people, please behave abroad - especially if you're carrying the flag!

end drift.

We don't need her war machines. We don't need her ghetto scenes.

cheers!

[ 17 May 2004: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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I support the United Nations but get offended when Cuba, Sudan, and other nations hold seats on human rights conditions.

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AI last visited Cuba in 1988. The government did not respond to AI's requests to be allowed into the country.

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The authorities continued to try to discourage dissent by harassing suspected critics of the government. Suspected dissidents were subjected to short-term detention, frequent summonses, threats, eviction, loss of employment and restrictions on movement.

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Limitations on freedom of expression, association and assembly remained codified in Cuban law. However, a decline in numbers of prisoners of conscience over the last several years was taken by some observers as an indication that repression of dissidents was waning. Several prisoners of conscience were released during 2002, including Juan José Moreno Reyes, Vladimiro Roca Antúnez and Oscar Elías Biscet, apparently supporting this view.

However, there were more new detentions of prisoners of conscience in 2002, showing clearly the authorities' continuing use of harsh measures to stifle potential internal dissent. In December Oscar Elías Biscet was redetained with a number of other activists as they took part in a discussion group on human rights.

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The National Assembly voted unanimously in favour of a Constitutional amendment declaring the socialist system irrevocable and making it illegal in future for lawmakers to attempt to change it.

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