(Edit to note: This is all chronological within the tier. So I'm not deigning to say whether Teddy Roosevelt was better than Truman; he's just listed ahead because he came first.)

So here goes:

Best
Abraham Lincoln
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Mixed-Better
John Quincy Adams
Benjamin Harrison
Teddy Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Dwight Eisenhower
Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Bill Clinton

Mixed
George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
Ulysses S. Grant
Martin Van Buren
Grover Cleveland
Woodrow Wilson
Calvin Coolidge
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon Johnson
George H. W. Bush

Mixed-Lesser
Zachary Taylor
Rutherford B. Hayes
James A. Garfield
Chester A. Arthur
William Howard Taft
Warren Harding
Ronald Reagan

Lesser
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler (he died a Confederate Congressman! so much for hallowing old Presidents)
James K. Polk
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Andrew Johnson
William McKinley
Herbert Hoover
Richard Nixon
George W. Bush

[ 07 June 2004: Message edited by: charlessumner ]

I thought Clinton was a good president, albiet there was hanky panky going on there too.

I have always respected and admired Jimmy Carter as a human being.

Johnson, Nixon, Bush one and two, and Reagan I don't respect as human beings, so I don't think they were very good leaders either.

Editted to add:

I forgot Ford..... I guess he was inconsequential.

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: kuba ]

kuba - Kennedy was one of the ones I really wavered on, but the escalation in Vietnam, to my mind, pushed him to Mixed from Mixed-Better (or Best? The freshman mistake of Bay of Pigs is what's giving me pause).

Had he lived longer, I hope and suspect he would have seen the sense in reversing the escalation in Vietnam. Instead we got the jerk Johnson (and if this was made by my personal fondness, he would be at the absolute bottom of the list).

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: charlessumner ]

But I disagree about James Madison. Even though much of his greatest achievements occurred before he became President, I think he was a reasonably good executive, too.

Ok, he did send troops to attack Toronto. But the Brits burned down Washington, so we are even.

Still, you're right. My problem was doing this chronologically; even if his term wasn't outstanding among the first four presidents, putting him in with John Tyler or Nixon is a disgrace. I'm bumping him to Mixed with profuse apologies.

So you are that same CharlesSumner? I read some of your law reports, specifically Vesey, and also the opinions of Justice Story.

quote:

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Originally posted by charlessumner:

Best
Abraham Lincoln
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Mixed-Better
John Quincy Adams
Benjamin Harrison
Teddy Roosevelt
Harry S. Truman
Dwight Eisenhower
Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Bill Clinton

Mixed
George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
Ulysses S. Grant
Martin Van Buren
Grover Cleveland
Woodrow Wilson
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon Johnson
George H. W. Bush

Mixed-Lesser
Zachary Taylor
Andrew Johnson
Rutherford B. Hayes
James A. Garfield
Chester A. Arthur
William Howard Taft
Ronald Reagan

Lesser
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler (he died a Confederate Congressman! so much for hallowing old Presidents)
James K. Polk
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
William McKinley
Herbert Hoover
Richard Nixon
George W. Bush

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: charlessumner ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by josh:
The top two are fine. But some of the groupings are a bit strange. Ford, Carter and Clinton should not be that high up.

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Gerald Ford is the first and only Republican president truly of the modern era. The principled conservative U.S. leaders of the future are going to look a lot more like Ford more than a quarter-century ago than like Reagan in his time or… either Bush, especially the one now.

Carter, okay, is kind of a sentimental choice. Clinton could have done better but not so much, I think, as to go down to the almost neutral Mixed.

quote:

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And what did Benjamin Harrison ever do to deserve being rated that high?

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Advances in international diplomacy and commerce without war. The Sherman Anti-Trust Act. His stickhandling of complex trade issues and a growing federal budget was probably more reasonable than not. Strong on civil rights, maybe more in the Senate than in his structurally weak presidential term. Less endearing: trying to annex Hawaii.

quote:

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Washington, Jefferson and Wilson grouped with Warren Harding?

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Washington and Jefferson did little or nothing against slavery, a condition which besides being atrocious on its own would end up splitting the union. Wilson was famously multilaterist abroad but a nasty racist at home. But maybe Harding was a bit weak for Mixed.

quote:

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Andrew Johnson should be in the bottom while McKinley should be higher.

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I'll put Johnson down. McKinley stays for imperialism, notably the Spanish-American War.

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: charlessumner ]

Good.
Thomas Jefferson
Woodrow Wilson
Dwight D. Eisenhower
FDR

Bad.
Richard Nixon
Harry Truman
Clavin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover

UGLY!
U.S. Grant
Warren G. Harding
Ronald Reagan
Gearge W. Bush

and, of course,
Overrated.
John F. Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln

Good:
Eisenhower
JFK (in a short time did a lot, it kills be to admit because he was a slime ball)
George H.W. Bush (NAFTA)
George W Bush (freed oppressed people, ect)

Worst:
Bill Clinton
Jimmy Carter, this one was hard, he is a great man, probably the best to serve as president. However as president he was non-effective. I have heard him described as the best former president, which I think is true.

Best to never get the job
Bob Dole, Elizabeth Dole, and Howard Dean, lol JJ on that last one

[ 06 June 2004: Message edited by: Big Willy ]

quote:

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Best to never get the job
Bob Dole, Elizabeth Dole, and Howard Dean, lol JJ on that last one

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Hey what about Henry Wallace? He was FDR's vice-president 1940-1944 . FDR dumped him from the ticket because he was too left-wing in the 1944 election in favour of Harry Truman.

Abraham Lincoln-if he'd have finished his 2nd term
Eugene V Debs-Socialist from way back
Huey Pierce Long-The real new dealer
Robert F Kennedy-for obvious reasons
McGovern

Candidates for the Democratic nomination that would have been far better of a choice then John Kerry.

Howard Dean-1st choice
Carolyn Moseley-Braun-2nd choice
Dennis Kucinich-3rd choice

Worst Presidents, recent history not in any particular order.
Ronald Reagan
George W Bush
Jimmy Carter-Love the man, but inept as Prez
Herbert Hoover
Woodrow Wilson-for getting us into WW1
Richard Nixon

In 2000's Presidential election, my first choice for the Democratic Party's nomination was Bill Bradley, because Gore was riding on the DLC's new wave of Neo-Conservativism a la parti democratique. Joe Lieberman a rabidly fanatical hassidic joozian homophobe turned me off completely. I didn't vote in the general election because a Gore/Lieberman ticket was as offensive as a Bush/Cheney.