quote:

---

Military police say a Canadian soldier who shot and killed an Afghan civilian at a Kandahar checkpoint acted lawfully and will not face charges.

The family of victim Nasrat Ali Hassan and the soldier involved in the shooting offered drastically conflicting accounts of what happened on March 14.

Hassan’s widow and son say there was no warning to stop before the Canadian opened fire at the motorized rickshaw that several family members were riding in as it approached a checkpoint.

Canadian commanders immediately rejected that claim.

The full report of the National Investigation Service, the arm of the Canadian military police that investigates such incidents, was not made public Friday.

But Capt. Mark Giles, a spokesman in Ottawa, said the report concluded that the soldier — who has not been identified — observed the proper procedures and rules of engagement.

---

quote:

---

A Canadian soldier has been killed in a gun battle west Kandahar City in an area considered a hotbed of Taliban activity over the past few months.

Cpl. Anthony Joseph Boneca, 21, was a reservist from the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment based in Thunder Bay, Ont. He died Sunday morning, military officials say.

Brig.-Gen. David Fraser, Canada's top soldier in Afghanistan, called his death a tragic loss, but said the fighting will continue.[...]

Boneca's uncle, William Babe, said Boneca was on his second tour of duty in Afghanistan.

---

quote:

---

The war criminals in Ottawa keep sending our youth back until they come home dead.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jingles:

They volunteered. What do you call someone who actively participates in their own death?

---

From Toronto Star (Canadian Press):

quote:

---

A member of the slain soldier’s family contacted at his parent’s house in Thunder Bay said Boneca had been in the reserves for about four years, having joined immediately after high school.

He wasn’t married but had a “very lovely girlfriend” whom he had been seeing for well over a year, said Elizabeth Babe, 63, an aunt.

Boneca, who started out in the militia, had previously done tours that included guard duty in the United Arab Emirates that included a couple of trips to Kabul before he arrived in southern Afghanistan in February, she said.

“He was always interested in the army,” Babe added. “He just came home from one tour, worked a bit around, and signed up for the second tour.

---

quote:

---

An uncle of a Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan today says his nephew was ready to quit the military. Bill Babe says the last few times he spoke to 21-year-old Cpl. Anthony Boneca, he got the impression he was disheartened and disillusioned with his service in Afghanistan:

“I don’t think he believed totally in what he was doing, because I think he saw things that he didn’t expect to see and didn’t want to see, and probably did things he didn’t want to do. So, no, I would say, no, he didn’t, at the end of his tour, or near the end of his tour, because he still had three weeks left, I don’t think he really cared about helping people any more, he just wanted to get home.”

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jingles:
He was 21, he was not a child. He participated in a war against the Afghanii people. He is no victim.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by paxamillion:
Since when has the CF made such extensive use of reservists?

---

The CF has used reservists in large numbers since the 1990s. Since the years of the UN Yugoslavia missions. Which is about the same time has the reduction of the regular force troop levels.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Webgear:

Infantry reservists have always been high demand.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jingles:

The volunteered. What do you call someone who actively participates in their own death?

---

Someone not afraid to give their life for their country...as opposed to a coward who chooses safety over the chance to serve others.

There are so many things wrong in this thread already I don't know where to start.

quote:

---

Someone not afraid to give their life for their country...as opposed to a coward who chooses safety over the chance to serve others.

---

From his family's account, he wasafraid of giving his life for nothing. According to them, he recognized that much. And unlike the foolish cheerleaders who rah-rah death and destruction to justify their own Kiplingesque fantasies, he knew bullshit when he heard it. It sounds like this kid knew the score, and didn't like it one bit. To bad he learned it too late.

quote:

---

Cpl. Anthony Boneca had recently become "disillusioned" with Canada's role in the conflict, his girlfriend's father Larry DeCorte said Monday.

Boneca, a reservist, didn't have the proper training to serve on the front lines where he died Sunday, DeCorte told The Canadian Press.

"He expected to be on patrol, not fighting a war for someone else,'' said DeCorte. "He wasn't ready for that.''

DeCorte said the 21-year-old had become so desperate to leave Afghanistan he was considering telling an army priest he was suicidal so that he could be discharged.

"He wanted to get on with his life,'' said DeCorte, who added his daughter Megan had been given a promise ring by Boneca. "It wasn't happening fast enough for him. I guess it didn't happen fast enough for him.'' Source

---

"They'd go out on tours … they'd be out for 22 days [with] not enough rations, not enough water."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jingles:

From his family's account, he wasafraid of giving his life for nothing. According to them, he recognized that much. And unlike the foolish cheerleaders who rah-rah death and destruction to justify their own Kiplingesque fantasies, he knew bullshit when he heard it. It sounds like this kid knew the score, and didn't like it one bit. To bad he learned it too late.

Before you bask yourself in the glow and blood of martyrs, think about this: I'm very fucking certain that kid would rather have lived in safety at home with his family than die in the dust for Steven Harper's photo ops.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
Who killed Cpl. Boneca? Has the military said? Was it "friendly fire"?

---

quote:

---

THUNDER BAY, Ont. (CP) - The latest Canadian Forces casualty in Afghanistan was a "disillusioned" 21-year old desperate to leave the war-torn region, the father of the slain soldier's girlfriend said Monday.

Cpl. Anthony Boneca anticipated being on patrol but didn't have the proper training to be serve on the front lines where he died Sunday, said Larry DeCourte.

"He expected to be on patrol, not fighting a war for someone else," said DeCourte.

"He wasn't ready for that."

Boneca was so desperate to leave Afghanistan he considered telling an army priest he was suicidal so that he could be discharged, said DeCourte.

---

Pierre Burton said Canadian troops were poorly trained for the world wars, too. Some of our guys never received the most basic training on how to use a rifle, and they were slaughtered for what was gross incompetence at the highest levels. So not only is Canada still falling down on job training for Canadian workers after decades of being accused of that, we are still sending soldiers overseas with inadequate preparation for combat. Get'em the hell home now, phuckups!

[ 10 July 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

If you read the CBC link, the problem seems to be inadequate supplies and transportation problems (hard to say what the problem was, it all depends on what new source you read).

Having gone through training for the last 8 months, I have a few problems with the military training system, the lack of support for basic items such as computers and IT support, speciality course are hard to come by and all the training is crammed into a short amount of time, however said that, I did receive enough training for the mission.

Soldiers gets disillusion with every mission and they all talk about getting out of the military when they arrived home. If I had a dollar for each time I said I was leaving the military, I could retire a rich man by now. This soldier probable said the same thing while he was in Kabul however he went back again. It is a soldier’s nature to bitch about the military yet he keeps coming back to the mission again and again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MinorityReport:

Blah,Blah,Blah...More self righteous liberal elitist BS.
sarcasim on:Maybe we should pull all our troops out and just let them kill each other Sarcasim off:
I find it funny how all you bleeding heart liberals preach about human rights,but when the time comes to take action against human rights violations you all just want to curl into the fetal postion.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Webgear:

Soldiers gets disillusion with every mission and they all talk about getting out of the military when they arrived home. If I had a dollar for each time I said I was leaving the military, I could retire a rich man by now. This soldier probable said the same thing while he was in Kabul however he went back again. It is a soldier’s nature to bitch about the military yet he keeps coming back to the mission again and again.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

You know Webgear, even though we disagree about Afghanistan, I generally find your posts sober-minded and based on your own experience or generally accepted facts. In this one, I think you've strayed. I appreciate learning your own feelings about the military, but find it somewhat unseemly to attribute feelings to a dead comrade when he is no longer present to explain himself.

---

Thanks for the comment Unionist. I enjoy our conversations a lot, and I admit that I have even gained some knowledge from you. We may disagree about Afghanistan but we still discuss the facts and the issues in an interesting and enjoyable manner.

Maybe I did stray it was not my intentions.

I hope that Cpl. Boneca's kept a dairy of his experiences, or some type of notes on his situation. I would be interested to know what he was disillusioned about, was it the mission itself, the lack of support (equipment, training, supplies), the tactics being used or how the media was playing a part in the situation?

I did not mean any harm to my dead comrade or his family. I just find the media’s reporting very bad and unprofessional on “his disillusions” statement. I am surprised that no reporter asked the family what he was disillusioned about. Instead they just gave a blanket statement that he was disillusioned.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Webgear:
Fidel

If you read the CBC link, the problem seems to be inadequate supplies and transportation problems (hard to say what the problem was, it all depends on what new source you read).

---

Ahhem, I did read the link. DeCourte said had become disilluioned with Canada's role in Afghanistan. "He expected to be on patrol, not fighting a war for someone else," said DeCourte."

Didn't anyone explain to Boneca exactly what it was he'd be doing in Afghanistan upon his arrival on that side of the planet ?.

[ 11 July 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Webgear:
Soldiers gets disillusion with every mission and they all talk about getting out of the military when they arrived home. If I had a dollar for each time I said I was leaving the military, I could retire a rich man by now. This soldier probable said the same thing while he was in Kabul however he went back again. It is a soldier’s nature to bitch about the military yet he keeps coming back to the mission again and again.

---

Boneca's concerns are very clear from what he told his girlfriend and her father.

quote:

---

Globe and Mail:
A four-year reservist with the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment, he had been trained to handle a rifle and to conduct patrols. And the demands of a previous mission he served in the war-wracked country were in keeping with his training.

This tour was different, Mr. DeCorte said. This time, Cpl. Boneca and other soldiers who were part of the 1st Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry battle group were sent to Kandahar to rout the Taliban.

"When they went over there, they didn't think they were going to have that kind of combat," Mr. DeCorte said. "They thought it was going to be the same kind of things, going on patrols and stuff like that, not hand-to-hand combat like he ended up in. Also, they aren't mentally prepared for it. He wanted out in the worst way."
....

But Mr. DeCorte said Cpl. Boneca did not believe he was ready for the duties he had been handed and even considered telling an army padre that he was suicidal in a bid to be released from the mission.

It was a feeling of dread that Cpl. Boneca said was shared by many of the young Canadian soldiers, added Mr. DeCorte. Seven-day patrols stretched to three weeks without adequate food and water, he said. And the exhausted Canadian troops are under constant threats from rocket-propelled grenades or small-arms fire.

Mr. DeCorte's 19-year-old daughter Megan, who had been dating Cpl. Boneca since just before his first deployment to Afghanistan, met up with her boyfriend in Italy in May when the soldier took a scheduled leave.

"He said he just didn't want to go back. He was scared. He was scared for his life. He was scared of the whole thing. He was scared of the Taliban, scared of everything."

---

[ 11 July 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

quote:

---

Soldiers gets disillusion with every mission

---

I don't think that is true of those who fought for the Allies during World War II.

Sometimes, it is clear that soliders can really make a difference. Other times, it's unclear.

Afghanistan is in the second group, though it is hard to believe that infidel armies are going to be permitted to pacify Afghanistan.

"The father of Cpl. Anthony Boneca, the Canadian soldier killed in a fierce battle near Kandahar Sunday, defended Tuesday his son’s commitment to the mission and his ability to carry it out.

My question: Who wrote this phony disgusting exploitative statement and how did they persuade him to sign it?

Can you provide an audio or video link from yesterday?

Anyway, we now have Anthony's uncle Bill Babe, his girlfriend's father Mr. Decorte, and his best friend Dylan Bulloch, all saying, in oral interviews with the media - that Anthony was scared, fed up, lost faith, wanted to come home. Against that, we have this written statement allegedly from his father - issued by DND! And now the family allegedly wants "privacy" in their grief, and no media on Anthony's return! This stinks.

From Canadian Press

quote:

---

''He was telling me no one wants to be there, no one knows exactly why they're there and why is Canada in a war zone when all we do is protect and peace keep,'' said Dylan Bulloch, 21, Boneca's best friend.

Bulloch says Boneca was sociable, very likeable and ''full of energy all the time.''

''This guy, you'll work him to the bone, give him two minutes of rest and it's like he never did anything,'' he said.

However, Boneca confided in a recent telephone conversation that he was dissatisfied with the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. It struck Bulloch as odd.

''He was saying he was overworked. He's one of these people that are able to bounce back full of energy. And hearing him saying he was tired and his morale was down was a complete shock.''

---

Three of the people closest to him are lying to the media?! This is the beginning of the end for the bastards who are sending our children to kill and be killed.

[ 11 July 2006: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by thorin_bane:

So what human rights are we fighting for? What has changed other than warlords now control the country and people have to farm opium just to survive. How many roads or schools have been built? Do woman have more rights? Do they have clean water or electricity? Why not go over and see for yourself. I am too busy being a bleeding heart and wanting the people from my country to help thier people instead of killing a lot of innocent afghani and having their family members wanting revenge for something that was preventable you jackass!

---

Perhaps you should research the subject before you stick your foot in your mouth!

Landmines affect as much as 850 square kilometres of Afghanistan's most fertile valleys. They prevent refugees from going home, keep farmers from returning to the fields, and even hinder children attending school. Through the United Nations Mine Action Centre in Afghanistan (UNMACA), Canada is one of the lead donors for mine action, which includes mine clearance, mine risk education, and rehabilitation of victims - a prerequisite for resuming economic and social life in contaminated areas. Canada is also the lead nation in a project to collect and destroy all stockpiled anti-personnel mines and unsafe, unserviceable and surplus ammunition.

Through CIDA, Canada also supports a number of initiatives to help Afghan farmers sustain their families, while giving up the illegal cultivation of poppies. These initiatives assist in the development of alternative livelihoods through rural infrastructure, assistance with better agricultural practices and crop diversification.

Since 2001, Canada has contributed over $33 million to help the democratic process in Afghanistan. Canada fully supported the presidential election in the fall of 2004 as well as parliamentary and provincial elections in September 2005. More than 12 million Afghans - many times the expected number - registered to vote in these successive elections. In December 2005, the Afghan parliament sat for the first time in over 30 years, giving Afghans a voice and laying the foundation for a stable and prosperous Afghanistan.

Canada is the lead donor to the Micro-finance Investment and Support Facility of Afghanistan (MISFA), a microfinance program that is helping small-scale entrepreneurs, particularly women, work their way out of poverty through the establishment of small businesses

Now that Afghanistan has embarked upon a path towards greater stability and democracy, many women are seeking the education they need to improve their own lives. Since 2002, Breaking Bread for Women has held more than 355 potluck gatherings in almost every province in Canada and raised $425,000 to support Afghan teachers and establish literacy programs for women.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil_Pancake_Man:
Perhaps you should research the subject before you stick your foot in your mouth!

---

Let's see what someone more in tune with your own apparent wordview says about Afghanistan:

quote:

---

Donor aid has been pouring in by the billions. But the main beneficiaries, as usual, are expensive international consultants and corrupt local officials, who've created a housing boom in Kabul but very little else. Only 6 per cent of the population has access to electricity. According to The Economist, not a single new dam, power station or water system has been built in the five years since the Taliban fell. Kabul has no sewer system. And Afghans are increasingly disillusioned at the West's failure to deliver security and services.

Meantime, Western governments and aid agencies have been shockingly naive about the task at hand. "The West has been guilty of applying Western precepts on an almost post-medieval economy," warns Lieutenant-General David Richards, the British commander of the NATO forces. "A quarter of children die by the age of 5. Worrying about civil service reform and gender rights are really tomorrow's problems." Everyone was surprised by the Taliban's resurgence. "We took our eye off the ball," says Gen. Richards. But NATO's strategy also looks naive. The plan is to establish secure areas as bases from which to inject aid into the surrounding region and build loyalty to the Western-backed government. That was the idea in Iraq, too. Source: Margaret Wente

---

[ 11 July 2006: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil_Pancake_Man:
You say i am cribbing the governments propaganda,and in response you post an article by Margaret Wente?

Humourous indeed

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by M. Spector:
What, Margaret Wente's not right-wing enough for you? Do you have to hear it from Ann Coulter before you "get it"?

---

You probably need Windows Media Player 10 for my link, or you can go directly to the CTV page where I found it, just look in the box for the interview with Larry DeCorte.

quote:

---

Originally posted by M. Spector:
[...]

---

Spector, I've already reported this sicko to the moderator. Please don't give him/it the satisfaction of accomplishing his evil. And if you think my self-restraint comes easy, I'm about to bust a gut here.

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
What did they tell this poor man to make him do this? I heard his voice on Sunday, and now the family is demanding privacy? Why aren't the media getting to the bottom of this?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
Webgear,
Also, I would like everyone to note that all the media are now "quoting" Anthony's father, but no one is showing his image or voice. It's all this canned glib release issued by DND. It's making me ill. What did they tell this poor man to make him do this? I heard his voice on Sunday, and now the family is demanding privacy? Why aren't the media getting to the bottom of this?

---

Thank you, I had to upgrade my media player.

[ 11 July 2006: Message edited by: johnnie ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evil_Pancake_Man:
More than 12 million Afghans - many times the expected number - registered to vote in these successive elections. In December 2005, the Afghan parliament sat for the first time in over 30 years, giving Afghans a voice and laying the foundation for a stable and prosperous Afghanistan.

[/URL]

---

quote:

---

Hamilton reservists preparing to head to Afghanistan next month say they're well trained and ready for possible combat, despite being shaken by the death of 21-year-old fellow reservist Corporal Anthony Boneca.[...]

May Ruetch, however, said her grandson, Corporal Malcolm Williams, didn't know what to expect when he was sent to Afghanistan in January.

The 26-year-old Hamilton resident, who injured his knee after driving over a roadside bomb in May, was originally under the impression he would be participating in a peacekeeping mission.

"They were told that they were going over as peacekeepers. Then all of a sudden we're at war," said Ruetch, 76. "Malcolm is quite in touch with his mom (Susan) and he has told her they all want to come home. They hate it over there, it's scary."

---

[ 12 July 2006: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

---

In a statement drafted with the help of military officials, the father of Canada's latest war casualty Tuesday took aim at recent portrayals of his son as a poorly trained reservist who was bitterly unhappy in Afghanistan and who questioned Canada's role in that country.[...]

A military spokesperson Tuesday said officials did not attempt to shape Boneca's statement, despite its potentially damaging effects on public support for the mission.

"We don't influence the family on what to say or what to respond to," said Katie McLaughlin. "It's completely up to them. We're just there to provide the means to be able to get to the media because it's obviously not something that the average person has access to."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
[quoting]...We're just there to provide the means to be able to get to the media because it's obviously not something that the average person has access to.

---