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Author Topic: Co-operatives in Canada and the world
Hawkins
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posted 26 July 2005 06:56 PM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While visiting The Take's website (I love the Forja workers!) I noticed that someone has taken the initiative to start a project called "The working world" (Website) that provides financial support to democratic producers. They are also the executors of a program called "La Base" which manages the loan program - just in Argentina right now (website). And I read a story about the CUC (Website (in Spanish))which is a cooperative shoe company out of a former Adidas factory. And it got me thinking while I sit here in my China made clothing...

Do co-operatives exist in Canada (beyond MEC )? Are there manufacturers in this country that operate on the co-operative principle? More importantly are their co operative shoe companies in this country (I need to get new shoes).

More about the La Base program. I think its a very good solution to the IMF problem, if it really gets going. People can donate money into it, it gives the money out in loan form- yes it does collect interest- and then when they get the "investment" (lack of a better term) back the money goes into another co-operative that needs some capital.

I am going to be put on my utopian democratic socialist here, but this is the kind of economics that I think the world should run on and you don't have to destroy the system to make it (just expropriate the structure of the global economy ).

[ 26 July 2005: Message edited by: Hawkins ]


From: Burlington Ont | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 26 July 2005 07:05 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There are lots of food co-ops in Canada.
From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hawkins
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posted 26 July 2005 09:07 PM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha you got me on my ignorant city living . I Presume food magically appears in the super market some times (I try hard not to but alas I just demonstrated that I am not quite there). Farming co-operatives I think are great thngs.

Maybe people could post specifics about certain co operatives they know about that people could support?


From: Burlington Ont | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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posted 26 July 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
we have a co-op right here in hamilton. it's called skydragon. it is still a growing co-op, i.e., trying to gain more power, and doing a very good job at that. they just recently came out with a free, non-profit, monthly publication called mayday magazine.mayday magazine. they offer very cheap educational workshops like animation, and dance lessons. martial arts and studio rentals, as well, i think. i believe one of their ultimate goals is to provide affordable housing in hamilton. and they just bought (or rented?) a new building for themselves instead of the old rented building which had no handicap access. it's all very exciting.
From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
James
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posted 26 July 2005 09:24 PM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ephemeral:
it is still a growing co-op

A co-op grow-op ? Intriguing notion, really. Maybe there are some already. anybody know ? (no expectation that details will be posted)


From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Northern54
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posted 26 July 2005 09:54 PM      Profile for Northern54     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I live in a housing cooperative. I shop at a food co-op. I have done my financial business at the credit union (in Saskatchewan -- no credit union here), which is another form of co-op. I have a brother-in-law who grew up on a co-op farm. The wheat pool is a farmer owned co-op as was "Pioneer" at one time.
From: Yellowknife | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Left Turn
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posted 27 July 2005 12:48 AM      Profile for Left Turn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Co-ops are certainly better than for-profit businesses. That said, co-ops do not replace capitalism. There is immense pressure under capitalism for co-ops to operate in the same manner as for-profit businesses, or go under.

Capitalism does need to be replaced, co-ops just arn't a permanent replacement. Still, they are better than nothing.


From: Burnaby, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 27 July 2005 03:21 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
co-ops do not replace capitalism.

Don't they? If all businesses were co-ops and nothing else changed, would it still be capitalism?


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hawkins
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posted 27 July 2005 11:00 AM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The mechanisms for economic exchange remain the same but I don't really know if I could classify it as "capitalism". Obviously current co-operatives have to work in a capitalist frame work to the best of their abilities (or die). But given that they are trying to bring equal (or fair depending) returns to all the people involved it does seem to have a very important difference: no elite "capitalist class" in the majority of co-ops (there are some that are different I know, its a bad umbrella term).
From: Burlington Ont | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 27 July 2005 11:44 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
mondragon's in winnipeg.

i posted a link about Sewa in the feminism forum earlier this week.

the co-op in britain is a real octopus: supermarket, bank, funeral services, etc.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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posted 27 July 2005 05:56 PM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Left Turn:
Capitalism does need to be replaced, co-ops just arn't a permanent replacement. Still, they are better than nothing.

co-ops usually have a hard time obtaining funds to get established. so, they take a really long time to grow. i think capitalism can be replaced with just the notion of a boss-less workplace. and, i think we should be making efforts to change conditions to that effect everywhere we work. more discussion on this

here.


From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Left J.A.B.
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posted 27 July 2005 06:29 PM      Profile for Left J.A.B.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pine River Cheese - we stock up every time we go back home from the cottage
From: 4th and Main | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
uniondude
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posted 29 July 2005 02:47 PM      Profile for uniondude     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There are thousands of co-ops in canada. Here are some resources:

http://www.coopzone.coop/english/
Coopzone

http://www.coopscanada.coop
The Canadian Co-operative Association

http://www.ccc.coop
le Conseil Canadien de la Cooperation

http://www.coop.org
International Co-operative Alliance

http://www.bcca.coop
British Columbia Co-operative Association

http://www.nscouncil.ns.ca
Nova Scotia Co-op Council

http://www.acca.coop/
Alberta Community & Co-op Association

http://www.sask.coop/
Saskatchewan Co-operative Association

http://www.ccs-sk.ca/
conseil de la cooperation de la Saskatchewan

http://www.manitobacoopcouncil.coop/
Manitoba Co-operative Council

http://www.ontario.coop/
Ontario Co-operative Association

http://www.coopquebec.coop/
conseil de la cooperation du Quebec

http://www.nlfc.nf.ca/
Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Co-operatives

http://www.canadianworker.coop/
Canadian Worker Co-operative Federation

http://www.chfc.ca/
Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada

http://www.agr.gc.ca/policy/coop/index.html
Government of Canada, Co-operatives Secretariat


From: Ottawa | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
uniondude
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posted 29 July 2005 02:54 PM      Profile for uniondude     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One more, sorry:

http://www.emmett.ca/bigidea/


From: Ottawa | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sean Cain
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posted 31 July 2005 03:14 PM      Profile for Sean Cain   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:

If all businesses were co-ops and nothing else changed, would it still be capitalism?


No. An economy where all businesses are democratically owned and controlled would be market socialism. This would still entail the problems of the labour market, however, including the "buying and selling" of workers, wage inequality and all the cyclical failures and volatilities of the global economy.

Having said this, I think that the establishment of a genuine market socialist economy would be a massive step forward for working people and the Left.

[ 31 July 2005: Message edited by: Sean Cain ]


From: Oakville, Ont. | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 31 July 2005 04:41 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
This would still entail the problems of the labour market, however, including the "buying and selling" of workers, wage inequality and all the cyclical failures and volatilities of the global economy.

Possibly, but what's the alternative? A micromanaged economy controlled by a central command? I don't think anyone wants to see that.

I don't think the problems of the market are inherent at all. I think they are a natural result of who (or maybe what) is controlling it. If the management of the global economy was largely in the hands of ordinary wage earners, the rampant insanity we see all around us would diminish substantially.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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posted 31 July 2005 04:54 PM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
If the management of the global economy was largely in the hands of ordinary wage earners, the rampant insanity we see all around us would diminish substantially.

i agree with you 100%. i honestly believe that this is exactly what will give us economic justice. distribution of profits to be determined by the people who earned them, not some corporate schill in a leather-backed chair in an air conditioned corner room office.


From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Red Albertan
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posted 31 July 2005 06:31 PM      Profile for Red Albertan        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grant I R:
There are lots of food co-ops in Canada.

That's not the same thing. I proposed a form of cooperative on these boards a few months back that run like the Argentinian ones. I felt partyly laughed, partly cursed "out of town". Canadian "co-operatives" are capitalist ventures with Managers and minimum-wage employees. The Argentine Model Co-Op's have no managers and no employees. They're all equal partners. GREAT concept.


From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Red Albertan
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posted 31 July 2005 06:34 PM      Profile for Red Albertan        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:

Don't they? If all businesses were co-ops and nothing else changed, would it still be capitalism?


Yes


From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Red Albertan
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posted 31 July 2005 06:44 PM      Profile for Red Albertan        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sean Cain:

No. An economy where all businesses are democratically owned and controlled would be market socialism. This would still entail the problems of the labour market, however, including the "buying and selling" of workers, wage inequality and all the cyclical failures and volatilities of the global economy.

Having said this, I think that the establishment of a genuine market socialist economy would be a massive step forward for working people and the Left.

[ 31 July 2005: Message edited by: Sean Cain ]


That's why I find it naive when people compare the Argentine model of co-operatives with the Canadian/Western model. Apples and Oranges. While the western Cooperatives have all the features of capitalist ventures under the guise of being different, from high-paid management to low paid semi-slave, the Argentine model of cooperative has done away with the hierarchy. It is a true cooperative.


From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Northern54
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posted 31 July 2005 06:53 PM      Profile for Northern54     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Red Albertan:

Canadian "co-operatives" are capitalist ventures with Managers and minimum-wage employees. The Argentine Model Co-Op's have no managers and no employees. They're all equal partners. GREAT concept.


Well, our co-operative in Yellowknife isn't quite what is described here. It does not pay the minimum wage. There are a few full-time employees but most of the work is done by the children of the owners, our membership, on a part-time basis (for pay). We provide capital for the building through a membership fee (quite high -- $1500 though it can be paid for through a 2% surcharge on purchases until paid in full). After the $1500 is paid, the 2% surcharge continues to be paid, being used to buy debentures that pay somewhat better than a savings account. When a member moves, he is reimbursed his capital and sells back to the Co-op the debentures. Any profit made is re-distributed to the owners. I have received cheques for in excess of $500 in a given year. We pay $1 per member each week to pay for the labour costs of the store. This is low because the Co-op has virtually no debt. I don't know of many other businesses in our capitalist society that operates like this. The Co-op provides gasoline at cost to members, groceries at prices not much different than the South, hardware/furniture at cost plus shipping.

The Board of Directors is elected by the membership, one vote per member. The main goal is not "profit", but rather service to members.

I also belong to a Housing Co-operative. We have pooled our resources to own a 50-unit complex in Yellowknife. Our "rents" are significantly below market. We do not make "profit" each year but rather try to break even. We have a main goal, "to provide reasonably priced housing to the membership, including 30% of units to subsidized housing members." Again, our Board of Directors is elected.

The co-operatives of which I was a member in Saskatchewan were not as successful, but philosophically ran in the same way.

I realize that there are some Canadian co-operatives which are capitalist ventures with the main goal to make a profit. That is not the case of all co-operatives and I would argue not for the majority of "smaller" Canadian co-operatives.


From: Yellowknife | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 31 July 2005 07:11 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Red Albertan:
The Argentine Model Co-Op's have no managers and no employees. They're all equal partners.
According to "The Take," the recent documentary on Argentinian workers' co-ops, some have formed hierarchies and some haven't.

From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Red Albertan
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posted 01 August 2005 02:38 AM      Profile for Red Albertan        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bittersweet:
According to "The Take," the recent documentary on Argentinian workers' co-ops, some have formed hierarchies and some haven't.

I stand corrected.

I like the non-hierarchical structure myself, because everyone involved in the operation of the venture is participating in and contributing to its success. Each according to their skills. In my opinion, anything else is essentially just a capitalist venture with a different coat.


From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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posted 01 August 2005 01:03 PM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i think we should fight for the non-heirarchical structure here in canada ourselves.
From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
B. Ewing
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posted 01 August 2005 01:09 PM      Profile for B. Ewing   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In Canada Workers Cooperatives are owned and operated by the workers. One person one vote.

for more info:

http://www.canadianworker.coop/


From: Thunder Bay | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
ecos
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posted 07 August 2005 09:07 AM      Profile for ecos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi there,

I just wrote a blogpost relating to co-operatives and related issues.

http://oneadventure.blogspot.com/2005/08/personal-universal-integrity.html

I appreciate any thoughts or feedback you may have.

Thanks and regards,

L.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Anonymous
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posted 08 August 2005 05:35 AM      Profile for Mr. Anonymous     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does anyone know how I could get some of those CUC shoes ( http://cuc.labase.org/?page_id=10 ) here in alberta?

Seeing as I don't speak spanish, perhaps someone could help me out?


From: Somewhere out there... Hey, why are you logging my IP address? | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
crigaux
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posted 08 August 2005 01:42 PM      Profile for crigaux     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As Willowdale Wizard pointed out, Winnipeg has the Mondragon bookstore/cafe. We also have a organic foodstore (Organic Planet Worker's Co-op), a publishing house (Arbeiter Ring, which I believe is at least loosely run as a workers co-op), a music label (the infamous G-7 Welcoming Committee), a grocery store (Neechi Foods, I believe), and have a gas station co-op with a fairly large presence (Red-River Co-operative, which unfortunately is run as a consumer co-op, not a workers co-op).

When I was in Charlottetown, PEI a few years ago, we used a co-op taxi service, but I don't know that much about them.


If the CLC had any vision, they would start using their pension funds to fund the creation of worker co-ops. I think the Solidarity Fund has done that to a limited degree, and the Crocus Investment Fund did as well (as long as you consider employee stock purchase plans to be considered 'worker ownership of the means of production'.... which I obviously don't. By that standard, CIBC, Loblaws, Enron, and I'm sure a million other companies are the vanguard of a socialist workers revolution.. )


From: Hanging out at http://babblestrike.lbprojects.com/ | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged

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