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Topic: Co-operatives in Canada and the world
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Hawkins
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3306
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posted 26 July 2005 06:56 PM
While visiting The Take's website (I love the Forja workers!) I noticed that someone has taken the initiative to start a project called "The working world" (Website) that provides financial support to democratic producers. They are also the executors of a program called "La Base" which manages the loan program - just in Argentina right now (website). And I read a story about the CUC (Website (in Spanish))which is a cooperative shoe company out of a former Adidas factory. And it got me thinking while I sit here in my China made clothing...Do co-operatives exist in Canada (beyond MEC )? Are there manufacturers in this country that operate on the co-operative principle? More importantly are their co operative shoe companies in this country (I need to get new shoes). More about the La Base program. I think its a very good solution to the IMF problem, if it really gets going. People can donate money into it, it gives the money out in loan form- yes it does collect interest- and then when they get the "investment" (lack of a better term) back the money goes into another co-operative that needs some capital. I am going to be put on my utopian democratic socialist here, but this is the kind of economics that I think the world should run on and you don't have to destroy the system to make it (just expropriate the structure of the global economy ). [ 26 July 2005: Message edited by: Hawkins ]
From: Burlington Ont | Registered: Nov 2002
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Sean Cain
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3502
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posted 31 July 2005 03:14 PM
quote: Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
If all businesses were co-ops and nothing else changed, would it still be capitalism?
No. An economy where all businesses are democratically owned and controlled would be market socialism. This would still entail the problems of the labour market, however, including the "buying and selling" of workers, wage inequality and all the cyclical failures and volatilities of the global economy. Having said this, I think that the establishment of a genuine market socialist economy would be a massive step forward for working people and the Left. [ 31 July 2005: Message edited by: Sean Cain ]
From: Oakville, Ont. | Registered: Dec 2002
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Red Albertan
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9195
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posted 31 July 2005 06:34 PM
quote: Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
Don't they? If all businesses were co-ops and nothing else changed, would it still be capitalism?
Yes
From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005
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Red Albertan
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9195
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posted 31 July 2005 06:44 PM
quote: Originally posted by Sean Cain:
No. An economy where all businesses are democratically owned and controlled would be market socialism. This would still entail the problems of the labour market, however, including the "buying and selling" of workers, wage inequality and all the cyclical failures and volatilities of the global economy. Having said this, I think that the establishment of a genuine market socialist economy would be a massive step forward for working people and the Left. [ 31 July 2005: Message edited by: Sean Cain ]
That's why I find it naive when people compare the Argentine model of co-operatives with the Canadian/Western model. Apples and Oranges. While the western Cooperatives have all the features of capitalist ventures under the guise of being different, from high-paid management to low paid semi-slave, the Argentine model of cooperative has done away with the hierarchy. It is a true cooperative.
From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005
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Northern54
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5325
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posted 31 July 2005 06:53 PM
quote: Originally posted by Red Albertan:
Canadian "co-operatives" are capitalist ventures with Managers and minimum-wage employees. The Argentine Model Co-Op's have no managers and no employees. They're all equal partners. GREAT concept.
Well, our co-operative in Yellowknife isn't quite what is described here. It does not pay the minimum wage. There are a few full-time employees but most of the work is done by the children of the owners, our membership, on a part-time basis (for pay). We provide capital for the building through a membership fee (quite high -- $1500 though it can be paid for through a 2% surcharge on purchases until paid in full). After the $1500 is paid, the 2% surcharge continues to be paid, being used to buy debentures that pay somewhat better than a savings account. When a member moves, he is reimbursed his capital and sells back to the Co-op the debentures. Any profit made is re-distributed to the owners. I have received cheques for in excess of $500 in a given year. We pay $1 per member each week to pay for the labour costs of the store. This is low because the Co-op has virtually no debt. I don't know of many other businesses in our capitalist society that operates like this. The Co-op provides gasoline at cost to members, groceries at prices not much different than the South, hardware/furniture at cost plus shipping. The Board of Directors is elected by the membership, one vote per member. The main goal is not "profit", but rather service to members. I also belong to a Housing Co-operative. We have pooled our resources to own a 50-unit complex in Yellowknife. Our "rents" are significantly below market. We do not make "profit" each year but rather try to break even. We have a main goal, "to provide reasonably priced housing to the membership, including 30% of units to subsidized housing members." Again, our Board of Directors is elected. The co-operatives of which I was a member in Saskatchewan were not as successful, but philosophically ran in the same way. I realize that there are some Canadian co-operatives which are capitalist ventures with the main goal to make a profit. That is not the case of all co-operatives and I would argue not for the majority of "smaller" Canadian co-operatives.
From: Yellowknife | Registered: Mar 2004
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Red Albertan
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9195
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posted 01 August 2005 02:38 AM
quote: Originally posted by bittersweet: According to "The Take," the recent documentary on Argentinian workers' co-ops, some have formed hierarchies and some haven't.
I stand corrected. I like the non-hierarchical structure myself, because everyone involved in the operation of the venture is participating in and contributing to its success. Each according to their skills. In my opinion, anything else is essentially just a capitalist venture with a different coat.
From: the world is my church, to do good is my religion | Registered: May 2005
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crigaux
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2247
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posted 08 August 2005 01:42 PM
As Willowdale Wizard pointed out, Winnipeg has the Mondragon bookstore/cafe. We also have a organic foodstore (Organic Planet Worker's Co-op), a publishing house (Arbeiter Ring, which I believe is at least loosely run as a workers co-op), a music label (the infamous G-7 Welcoming Committee), a grocery store (Neechi Foods, I believe), and have a gas station co-op with a fairly large presence (Red-River Co-operative, which unfortunately is run as a consumer co-op, not a workers co-op). When I was in Charlottetown, PEI a few years ago, we used a co-op taxi service, but I don't know that much about them. If the CLC had any vision, they would start using their pension funds to fund the creation of worker co-ops. I think the Solidarity Fund has done that to a limited degree, and the Crocus Investment Fund did as well (as long as you consider employee stock purchase plans to be considered 'worker ownership of the means of production'.... which I obviously don't. By that standard, CIBC, Loblaws, Enron, and I'm sure a million other companies are the vanguard of a socialist workers revolution.. )
From: Hanging out at http://babblestrike.lbprojects.com/ | Registered: Feb 2002
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