I like Married with Children, too. It was, at times and not always, some of the best satire on modern life available on television. And some wponderfully hilarious dialogue.

Married with Children was like the Simpsons in some ways. Nothing was sacred, no subject was taboo. And while women fared badly on the show, so did men, equally.

Bud was portrayed as a horny, conniving serial masturbator while Al was an unlovaebale loser. The neighbour was a lazy, con artist stealing from his wife.

Married with Children was a satirical look at the common denominator in North American society. The Men's Show panders to that common denominator.

The Men's Show, however, is irrefutably sexist and more than a little offensive.

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Sex in the City, how about that?

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Do you mean do I think it's an anti-male program on W or do I think it's funny?

[ 01 May 2003: Message edited by: Zoot Capri ]

But at least the humour is a little sophisticated, and doesn't glorify ignorance and malice.

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Commenting on Sarah Jessica Parker's recent pregnancy, Michael Patrick King said: "Sarah's our workhorse, our show pony. We put her in high heels and tell her to run thirty blocks. Now, all of a sudden, she has to be babied." In its caricature of women who talk about sex like men, and, like men, have orgasms every time they have sex, the show represents a kind of counterattack on women's biology. The expensive, mismatched, chic-ugly clothes that Carrie wears; Sarah Jessica Parker's confused interpretations of her character as a black girl one episode and a self-conscious suburban cutie the next; Samantha's robotic-erotic, stud-like manner (and the sweaty, atrocious acting of Kim Cattrall, who could not stand still and convince you that she is a person standing still); the women's starry-eyed gold-digging; their countless humiliations: the picture of heterosexual life projected by Sex and the City, though it sometimes hits the nail right on the head, is the biggest hoax perpetrated on straight single women in the history of entertainment. The series' misogyny is matched by its homophobia: the only regular gay characters, Stanford and Anthony, are self-hating and flaming, respectively. Perhaps the exhilaration that the show provokes in some of its fans stems from the reactionary character of its assumptions about sexual identity.

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I suppose it could be considered "offensive" if you dont think women should have a tv network.

It has real offensive shows such as The Sunday Night Sex Show, a high percentage of the callers are male, I would say its half and half. Then there is Divine Design with Candace Olsen (a decorating show), Loving Spoonfuls which is hosted by David Gale - A MAN! Debbie TRavis's Painted House, who usually has a male partner working with her, and there is the very offensive Famous Homes and Hideaways - Dharma and Greg sitcom, Touched by An Angel,Chicago Hope, Ally McBeal, Sizzle (Culinary expert, Michael P. Clive, steps into the homes of women, creating dishes that delight the tastebuds!) ANOTHER MAN !
Just Cause, starring Richard Thomas, among others.

Of course there are the "W" movies

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From the heartbreaking end of relationships to the chills of a fresh romance, W Movies capture the magic and strength of the human spirit. With fantastic Canadian premieres of blockbuster movies as well as small screen delights, W brings Hollywood entertainment right to your living room

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Interesting, you hear the term "Womens Television Network" and right away you imagine rabid feminists bashing men ....

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but then we have Women's television network's programs by that definition should be sexist too( against Men) but no one talks about that! strange

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I find the W network mostly too bland, safe, and touchy feely for my taste.

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I think they're running the final series of it right now -- being a British show, they make ten episodes or so this year, ten the next, and so forth. But I imagine they'll re-run it when this is done.

One thing that always struck me about Friends is these are people some of whom are apparently hitting the big 3-0 and the behavior is so juvenile !! Its like adults stuck in a college dorm. The "issues" in the show are teenage issues not adult issues. I'm a big fan of British television anyhow. There was one a few years ago about some poor single guy living with his batty mother .. it was so funny.

Night and Day is pretty dark - I dont watch it enough to follow it but its not your run of the mill soap either.

Open for Discussion is usually pretty good too.

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I think some people were suggesting that Ed O'Niell( Al Bundy) was banging Christina Applegate( Kelly) in real life

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Originally posted by grrril:
Actually Michelle that's not what I meant.Yes all those comments and jokes were going on, and equally by the female characters, but the incest references were something else again. I wish I could point you to a specific show but I'm not going to start watching the show again.

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I also watch, or used to watch, some of the other shows mentioned above, as well as other programs that might be considered offensive. I like all sorts of comedy. Often they make me laugh out loud, and sometimes they make me cringe and groan.
Different strokes for different folks.

P.S. Calling WTN anti-male is just as lame as calling BET anti-white. Those voices were practically invisible in mainstream television for many years; essentially every TV network was a white male network. (Whether or not those stations actually live up to the task of representing women and blacks is a whole other debate).

[ 05 May 2003: Message edited by: Andy Social ]

http://socsci.mccneb.edu/soc210ta/_disc4/00000011.htm

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Stone depicts the American public as desensitized zombies who have become so selfish and detached from personal responsibility that they are willing to stand back and look at the world crumble around them without trying to stop it. He uses a vast amount of visual stimulation to shock the viewer into reality, which ended up making me feel quite drained after watching it. In one scene, Stone uses a parody of shows like "Married With Children" to express his disgust with the apathetic nature of the media. The make-believe sit-com used in the movie includes scenes of incest and verbal and physical abuse, all shown with the sound of canned laughter in the background.

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References are a starting point for a debate. Popular culture is not an exact science-there are no absolutes. What I initially enjoyed about MWC was their attitude against sacred cows and their use of satire. What I noticed after viewing the show for several years was the celebration and trivialization of abuse in different forms. It started to make me uncomfortable and I stopped watching the show.

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You shouldn't have made the accusation if you can't provide examples. I watched Married With Children a lot, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Some people notice things that aren't there. Especially newspaper reporters writing on a deadline

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Why did my comment irritate you? It happens to be true - so why the response about noticing things that arent there? Thats kind of an omnipotent response suggesting that if YOU dont see it, or feel it, or know about it, then it doesnt exist.

Everyones reality is different and individual to them. We dont all see and hear what YOU do, some of us hear and see more, some less - that doesnt make it less valid. You stick to your own reality and I will stick to mine. Perhaps what I consider inappropriate remarks for a brother to make to a sister, or a father to a daughter you dont consider inappropriate.

Either way you cant argue that there were no "inappropriate" remarks in MWC, thats about all it was --

IMO the "humour" was juvenile and demeaning to both men and women and it its audience as well, but thats my OPINION - I dont question YOUR opinion, dont question mine. If you like the show then good for you, I am happy you found something that gives you some enjoyment in life.