Author
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Topic: World's most infamous Holocaust deniers.
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Centerfield
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13025
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posted 12 December 2006 07:48 PM
The BBC's Frances Harrison in Tehran said the conference was like a roll call of the world's most infamous Holocaust deniers - all delighted that Iran had given them the oxygen of publicity.Holocaust deniers at Tehran meeting: Adelaide Institute's Frederick Toben quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Toben, who lives in Australia and served seven months in a German prison in 1999 for inciting racial hatred, said: "I would be disappointed if I was not to meet him, although I can't tell you any more than that. It's like meeting the Queen in England - I wouldn't comment beforehand." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/holocaust-denier-at-tehran-meeting/2006/12/1 0/1165685553995.html Robert Faurisson
Robert Faurisson is Europe's leading Holocaust revisionist scholar. He was educated at the Paris Sorbonne, and served as associate professor at the University of Lyon in France from 1974 until 1990. He is a recognized specialist of text and document analysis. After years of private research and study, Dr. Faurisson first made public his skeptical views about the Holocaust extermination story in articles published in 1978 in the French daily Le Monde. His writings on the Holocaust issue have appeared in two books and numerous scholarly articles, many of which have been published in the IHR's Journal of Historical Review. Known as the dean of the world-wide devisionist movement and principal teacher of Ernst Zündel, Dr. Faurisson first discovered the technical and architectural drawings of the Auschwitz morgues, the crematories and other installations. He was also the first to insist that only a U.S. gas chamber expert could unravel the technical impossibility of the Auschwitz homicidal gassing story -- as falsely told to the public for over half a century. Zündel mentor, advisor and trial witness in the 1984 preliminary hearings and in the 1985 and 1988 Great Holocaust Trials. Slated as expert witness for the 1991 Munich trial of Ernst Zündel. (The prosecution dropped the Anne Frank Diary part of the charge in mid-trial after they learned that Dr. Faurisson was going to testify to that point. David Duke
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duke is a self-styled white nationalist, though critics often label him a white supremacist. He says he does not think of himself as a racist, stating that he is a "racial realist" and that he believes "all people have a basic human right to preserve their own heritage."[6] He speaks against racial integration and in favor of white separatism --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke
Georges Thiel French writer Georges Thiel, who was convicted in France for spreading revisionist theories about mass extermination of Jews, says ‘there was no machinery of murder in any camp - no gas chambers. Feel free to add to my list.
[ 12 December 2006: Message edited by: Centerfield ]
From: Ontario | Registered: Aug 2006
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Centerfield
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13025
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posted 12 December 2006 09:06 PM
It's an important issue and I feel it deserves it's own thread.I would like to know who was at the conference,you must also be curious. Don't you find comments like this from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad disturbing ? quote: TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday told delegates at an international conference questioning the Holocaust that Israel's days were numbered.Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of six million Jews in World War Two as a "myth" and calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map," launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state. "Thanks to people's wishes and God's will the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want," he said.
Would you not be concerned, if you were a Jew in Israel ? This is not just some "Off the Cuff"(not prepared in advance) remark at the local University.This is a remark made at the "Review of the Holocaust: global vision" conference,specifically set up by a President of a country who's obtaining a nuclear warhead who is 100% driven by Religious Ideology period.
Your a clever lad,I know you understand the severity of this kind of stupidity. [ 12 December 2006: Message edited by: Centerfield ]
From: Ontario | Registered: Aug 2006
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sidra
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11490
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posted 13 December 2006 04:18 AM
Centerfield,When media drums beat at a vertiginous rythm, linking buzz worlds such as 'Islamic', 'Israel wiped off the map' and 'nuclear', I wouldn't get in the centre and dance to it like a whirling derwich. You are intelligent enough to use some critical thinking. It is just propaganda and hype within the war against Islam oops terror, to rally and strenghten more opposition to Iran's nuclear project.. to leave Israel the only nuclear power in the region. It is simply propaganda to prepare world opinion for a possible attack on Irani installations by Israel and the USA, so world opinion would think 'Iran deserved it". It is just smoke and mirror. Don't panick, Centrefield. Israel has nothing to fear. It is the 6th military power in the world, unconditionally supported by the 1st one. The only nuclear obscenity that occured so far was perpetrated, not by an "irrational" Islamic leader, but by a sober, reasonable and fair (read the sarcasm) USA. [ 13 December 2006: Message edited by: sidra ]
From: Ontario | Registered: Dec 2005
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unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323
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posted 13 December 2006 09:30 AM
Hard to believe posters on a mildly progressive kind of board would be spouting the same toxic waste about Iran posing a threat to the world as George W. Bush did about Iraq. Their collective memory lasts about 5 minutes.When was the last time Iran committed aggression against any country? Where exactly is the slightest shred of evidence that Iran is producing nuclear weapons? Why would any well-meaning person actually repeat that Iran has a plan to attack Israel? Or to harm some Jewish people somewhere? There can be no rational defence of the ignorant and bigoted knavishness of the current Iranian regime and its Holocaust conference. But to lyingly paint it as a threat to anyone is - as sidra intimates - to justify the next round of war, aggression, and slaughter.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 13 December 2006 11:53 AM
Another holocaust denier in attendance was Lady Michele Renouf. So was Jan Bernhoff of Sweden who says only 300,000 Jews died during the Second World War mostly from natural causes. These pseudo-academics are rightly treated with contempt in their home countries due to their shoddy research but also because of their links to neo-Nazis, racists and hate-mongers. Yet, they all had prominent speaking roles at the Tehran Conference.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 13 December 2006 01:44 PM
quote: Hard to believe posters on a mildly progressive kind of board would be spouting the same toxic waste about Iran posing a threat to the world as George W. Bush did about Iraq. Their collective memory lasts about 5 minutes.
I would never support an attack on Iran. That's not the topic. The topic is holocaust denial, and to a lesser extent, those leftists whose affiliations require them to keep silent about Iranian racism. As for "collective memory", perhaps we remember that the USSR allied itself with Hitler for several years, and, during those years, was silent as to antisemitism in Germany, while attacking social democrats as "the greatest danger". This seems to me to be an analogous time. Those who are unable to make a simple statement about Iran's foreign ministry sponsoring this Conference are falling into a huge error. It didn't work in 1939 and it won't work now. It discredits these people, who are, of course, not on "the left" in any broad sense, but members/sympathizers of a specific political party.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 13 December 2006 01:57 PM
Added thought: M. Spector tells us that a Canaidna professor is at the Conference, and says the man is an anti-imperialist.Perhaps so, although that term can easily hide reprehensible as well as fine ideas. So, I was glad to see that the good professor was appalled: quote: Dr. Dossa said he was alarmed to find that Holocaust deniers played such a visible role in the event."I did not know exactly who was coming to the conference, and frankly, I think these people are hacks and lunatics," he said. "I frankly wouldn't even shake hands with most of them."
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273
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posted 13 December 2006 02:43 PM
quote: Originally posted by jeff house: The topic is holocaust denial, and to a lesser extent, those leftists whose affiliations require them to keep silent about Iranian racism.
Your suggestion that anyone here is required to say or refrain from saying anything because of their "affiliations" is a slimy rhetorical device left over from the Cold War. You have no evidence for making such an allegation. Stick to arguing with people about what they say, rather than imputing imaginary motives to them for saying it - or for saying nothing at all. [ 13 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ken Burch
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8346
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posted 13 December 2006 02:55 PM
So, I wonder if this was like a really evil vacuum salesman's convention?Were they all wearing nametags that said "HI I'm ____ I deny the Holocaust"? Was anybody selling t-shirts that said "My Dad went to the Holocaust Denial Convention and all I got was this lousy infidel t-shirt"? Did the Tehran Holiday Inn offer a gift pack and discount coupons?
From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005
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Abdul_Maria
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11105
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posted 13 December 2006 03:01 PM
Ahmadinejad is a smart guy. or should we say, he's smarter than Bush. i don't think Ahmadinejad believes anything he says about the Holocaust not occurring.I'm not sure what benefit Ahmadinejad obtains from providing a forum for this. in terms of "who benefits", anyone who wants to have a reason for preventing Iran from being allowed to possess nuclear weapons. why does Ahmadinejad behave in such a way that he gives "grist for the mill" for anybody who wants to deride Iran ? i don't get it.
From: San Fran | Registered: Nov 2005
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 13 December 2006 03:10 PM
quote: Your suggestion that anyone here is required to say or refrain from saying anything because of their "affiliations" is a slimy rhetorical device left over from the Cold War.
No one is required to say anything about anything. You may retain silence about the holocaust, about Naziism, about Iran, or whatever you like. However, in the nature of things, people will notice these strategic silences. To many of us, they speak volumes. You yourself often point out that someone has failed to be as critical of George Bush as they are of say, Cuba. So it should not surprise when others make the same sort of comment about your convenient silences.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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John K
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3407
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posted 13 December 2006 03:45 PM
Jeff, other than Quelar who was wondering off in an unfortunate and perhaps unintended direction on another thread that Michelle wisely closed, I've read nothing but contempt, scorn and condemnation of the Iran Holocaust conference from other babblers.And who am I to judge why a babbler may choose to remain silent on a particular issue. Often times I don't post if a particular point has already been made by others.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002
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Khimia
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11641
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posted 13 December 2006 04:01 PM
quote: As for "collective memory", perhaps we remember that the USSR allied itself with Hitler for several years, and, during those years, was silent as to antisemitism in Germany, while attacking social democrats as "the greatest danger".This seems to me to be an analogous time. Those who are unable to make a simple statement about Iran's foreign ministry sponsoring this Conference are falling into a huge error. It didn't work in 1939 and it won't work now. It discredits these people, who are, of course, not on "the left" in any broad sense, but members/sympathizers of a specific political party.
Well said Jeff, I heartily concur.
From: Burlington | Registered: Jan 2006
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quelar
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2739
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posted 13 December 2006 04:10 PM
quote: Originally posted by John K: Jeff, other than Quelar who was wondering off in an unfortunate and perhaps unintended direction on another thread....
Unfortunate to ask if what we're being told is the truth? I'm not trying to deny that it happened, I'm certainly not trying to deminish the severity of the crimes, all I'm saying is that, like the teacher, who was appauled when he realized he was speaking along side Duke and Zundel, some of the people there may be trying to get at some legitimate historical inaccuracy. I don't think it's fair to label everyone there an anti-semite. The whole point I've been trying to make is that history is FULL of inaccuracies, and I don't see why any one topic should be taboo to talk about. In the end I'll bet that the vast majority of the 'theories' spouted there can be proven false, but until we have an open discussion about it jackasses like the Deniers keep getting underserved attention. Edited to add : Anyone bringing up Russia's cooperation with the Nazi's should also look back and see how little the rest of Western Europe cared for the Jews. They certainly didn't go to war to help them, and the reason we have an Isreali state was due to the HIGH level of Anti-semetism throughout most of europe even after the war. [ 13 December 2006: Message edited by: quelar ]
From: In Dig Nation | Registered: Jun 2002
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Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881
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posted 13 December 2006 04:19 PM
quote: Originally posted by Khimia: Well said Jeff, I heartily concur.
See, Jeff? You have the backing of one of our right-wingers. So your campaign to smoke out the commies is really catching on. You know, I'm more with you than against you on most issues, but I think this attempt to paint fidel, m. spector, cueball, et. al. as part of the same cabal is pretty ignorant. I mean they argue with each other incessantly. If they're commies, they've got a bad sense of party loyalty. That would make them bad commies, I suppose. Whatever. Continue making lists.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004
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jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518
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posted 13 December 2006 04:44 PM
QUOTE] I mean they argue with each other incessantly [/QUOTE]That's complete crap. The Pro-Cuba Group has had about 10,000 posts overall. I'll bet you can't show me five in which they disagree in any serious way. Beyond that, I don't think a person who can't criticize Iran for this Conference is a progressive person. I believe that progressives HATE ALL RACISM. Progressives won't hold keep their mouths shut when they encounter it. They know it is a plague on the world. You say that Khimia supports me? I'll take him over David Duke or Ahmadinejad.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001
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Erik Redburn
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5052
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posted 13 December 2006 05:25 PM
They had a similar discussion on EnMasse About this. Noone here is supporting Holocaust revisionism, the problem I suspect is that some worry too too much about how this might be Used by Rightwingers in the States. Since few leftists support either 'Jihad' Or 'McJob' in the first place, however, I'd say the middle path between extremes is fairly obvious if we just take a couple steps back. Iran is indeed run by misogynistic, anti-Semitic and anti-democratic theocrats, but so what? The enemy of Our enemy is Not necessarily our friend either, they may have their own hidden agenda. Saddam Hussein was an evil man too, but that didn't make the Iraq mission right in Either sense of the word and bombing Teheran would OC only make things Worse, strenthening the power of their own militant factions Again. Even the friggin Pentagon advises against attacking them now. Re the conference itself though I think Jeff is by and large correct, there's not a Shred of evidence that it was meant as Anything but holocaust denial. Saying the holocaust is sometimes used as a smoke screen by ulta-Zionist Likudniks and Jewish fundies to cover their own racist agenda is one thing, its quite another when a sworn enemy of the very Existence of Israel invites people who deny the very Fact of it happening. Thats Not any basis with which to attack Israeli apartheid. As I said on EM, Ahmedinejad does Not represent Islam anymore than Falwell and Robertson represents mainstream Christianity. The left can either frame the issues to its own advantage or it can let extremists on either side set the agenda. Just takes some faith in the average citizen to make the necessary distinctions --IF we can make those distinctions clear enough ourselves. The rest is easy. [ 13 December 2006: Message edited by: EriKtheHalfaRed ]
From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 13 December 2006 05:32 PM
quote: Originally posted by jeff house:
The topic is holocaust denial, and to a lesser extent, those leftists whose affiliations require them to keep silent about Iranian racism.
I don't deny that the U.S.-led medieval siege of Iraq has caused the premature deaths of some 1.2 to 1.4 million Iraqi's since 1991, Jeff. Where ever imperialists are at the source of megadeath, there will be witnesses. History will judge them. quote: As for "collective memory", perhaps we remember that the USSR allied itself with Hitler for several years, and, during those years, was silent as to antisemitism in Germany, while attacking social democrats as "the greatest danger".
And Chamberlain referred to the German coup plotters as "anti-Nazis" who weren't to be trusted. Deladier-Chamberlain's logic suggested that not cowering to Hitler's takeover of the Sudetanland and Czechoslovakia would provoke war with Germany. England and France, too, stood by and did nothing, and all the while knowing full-well that they were re-arming in violation of a WWI treaty. Stalin was buying time with Hitler before the invasion of Russia part II. Why does the excuse for doing nothing only apply the west and not Russia at the time ?. Russia was still picking up the pieces from Nicky's war with his cousin, the civil war, and a 25 nation invasion of Russia in the 1920's to put down the revolution. By other comparison, it took America 30 years to recover from a ten year-long capitalism-induced economic depression, and Germany some ten years themselves. So why was Russia, of all countries, expected to do act against the corporate and banking-sponsored re-armament of Nazi Germany ?. Hitler and Stalin pals ?. Get real.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 13 December 2006 06:06 PM
quote: Originally posted by Khimia: Of course, it was in fact clearly outlined in Mein Kampf Lebensraum, which makes their association all the more strange.
An idiot might think it strange. The idea is to avoid war, or delay it at all costs, not provoke it. In fact, Tommy Douglas was the first western politician to speak out against Hitler. Weak political conservatives like Chamberlain were for appeasing Hitler. Even after the bombing of London occurred, our weak and ineffective Liberals called for a parliamentary debate as to Canada defending England. There was no debate necessary, because Canadians already knew what was needed, just like they knew what needed doing with Franco in Spain. Stalin sent equipment to Spain for the fight against fascism, even though the Russians knew it would weaken them somewhat militarily. The western world stood by and did nothing except make it illegal for Brits to travel to Spain. They went anyway. [ 13 December 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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Centerfield
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 13025
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posted 13 December 2006 06:06 PM
Nobody will deny that Ahmadinejad dislikes the Jews with a vile hatred,his ongoing Anti Jew comments are evidence of this.So how does he expect to achieve this goal of taking back Israel ? The Israelis will never leave on there own and if they did where would they all(approx 7 million) go to. Ahmadinejad obviously has no intentions of negotiating with Israel and will now have even less support from the rest of the world after this racist conference. So the only other alternative to remove Jews from Israel is "Brute Force" no matter how many Iranians die. I recall earlier when Ahmadinejad made anti semantic remarks that he blamed the western media for misquoting him and not understanding the language. How many more lies are there. http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8506060558 quote: "the propaganda machinery after World War II has been so colossal that [it] has caused some people to believe that they are the guilty party."
[ 13 December 2006: Message edited by: Centerfield ]
From: Ontario | Registered: Aug 2006
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M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273
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posted 13 December 2006 06:20 PM
quote: Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed: Re the conference itself...there's not a Shred of evidence that it was meant as Anything but holocaust denial. Saying the holocaust is sometimes used as a smoke screen by ulta-Zionist Likudniks and Jewish fundies to cover their own racist agenda is one thing, its quite another when a sworn enemy of the very Existence of Israel invites people who deny the very Fact of it happening.
One of the people they invited was the Canadian professor who says anyone who denies the Holocaust is a "lunatic".But I guess that doesn't count as a "shred" of evidence with you. There were others attending the conference who were not Holocaust deniers. As the Globe and Mail reported today: quote: The Holocaust conference in Tehran includes members of Jews United Against Zionism, an organization of religious Jews who believe that the creation of the state of Israel goes against Jewish law."We don't want to deny the killing of Jews in World War II, but Zionists have given much higher figures for how many people were killed," Rabbi Moshe David Weiss, one of the members attending, told delegates. "They have used the Holocaust as a device to justify their oppression."
But I guess that doesn't count as a "shred" of evidence, either, eh?Ahmadinejad gave a speech at the conclusion of the conference. He said, according to the Globe, "that Israel's days were numbered." You can be sure that if he had said the Holocaust never happened, it would have been reported in every paper in the world. It wasn't. Funny, you'd think that if the object of the conference was nothing other than Holocaust Denial, the closing speech at the conference would have been the perfect time and place for Ahmadinejad to make that "point". And yet he didn't. But I guess that doesn't count as a "shred" of evidence for you.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005
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