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Topic: Presidential Debate 3
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 15 October 2008 02:07 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by djelimon: It's going to be fun I think. Obama forced McCain to promise his lunatic fringe to bring up Ayers in the debate, by saying McCain was afraid to say it to his face. Brilliant idea, in my opinion. After all, everything they're nattering on about has been thoroughly debunked months ago, on the MSM, even. Of course, now the old footage will get a ratings boost, and the media will play ball. Obama's learned a lot from the primaries, imo...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/05/presidential-debate-moder_n_117048.html [/Q UOTE]Heh yeah it should be interesting to see if McCain does actually bring it up. He's in a total damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I'm sure Obama has a plan for dealing with it, he no doubt had one last debate as well. I'm wondering what Obama's response is going to be. He has numerous different ways of dealing with it including a whole laundry list of associations that he could play around with. If McCain doesn't bring it up then he's screwed himself with his base supporters. They were furious enough last time that he wimped out. They don't want just Ayers brought up, they want every single nutjob rumor and story brought up, convinced that "If the people would just hear all these things then everyone will flock to McCain in an instant." The fact is that the MSM has been talking about Ayers for a couple of weeks now. They've been talking about whether they should be talking about Ayers and they've been talking about other people talking about Ayers and they've been talking around and around about whether McCain and Palin should be talking about Ayers and what it all means stategically to be talking about Ayers. These past few days have see the MSM now talking about how talking about Ayers doesn't seem to be making any inroads with people so maybe talking about Ayers isn't such a good thing." Now though they appear to have moved on and are talking about ACORN. See the basic pattern above to get an idea of how that is going.
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874
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posted 15 October 2008 08:17 PM
quote: Originally posted by Boom Boom: I'm surprised Obama didn't attack back when McCain raised Obama's so-called spending on "$3million for an overhead projector in his district" - I guess Obama knows everyone realizes McCain is full of shit on this issue and just ignored it.Did anyone besides me notice McCain bulging out his eyes a lot tonight? Especially after Obama caught him a lie.
I was listening to the debate while doing homework. I think that's why I thought the debate was closer than most people did. But I did look up long enough to hear... "Here's Joe's fine: ZERO" McCain: "Zero?" He nearly fell out of his chair. I think that the whole cool calm collected vs. angry old man contrast contributed alot to McCain's defeat.
From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004
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500_Apples
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12684
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posted 15 October 2008 08:21 PM
This was an irratating debate: - We get the point about Joe the plumber. Should he pay taxes when he fixes toilets for $250, 000/year or not? We know their stands. - One guy is against the "proabortion" movement and trivialized the exception of mother's health, the other guy says an abortion is between a woman, her doctor, her family and her religious guides or something like that. - McCain is still bitter about the Adler planetarium. **** Overall though, Obama is a really good debater. He responds to all of McCain's points, he seems to be aware of all of them and he deconstructs them in a very calm and rational manner. McCain looked like a rejected smartass.
From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 15 October 2008 08:23 PM
quote: Originally posted by Boom Boom: I'm surprised Obama didn't attack back when McCain raised Obama's so-called spending on "$3million for an overhead projector in his district" - I guess Obama knows everyone realizes McCain is full of shit on this issue and just ignored it.Did anyone besides me notice McCain bulging out his eyes a lot tonight? Especially after Obama caught him a lie.
Yeah and he blinks a whole heck of a lot too. It got rather distracting. Obama seems to ignore a lot of things that he technically could call McCain on. He seems to be quite good at picking and choosing the important ones or the ones that will have the most impact.
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874
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posted 15 October 2008 08:27 PM
Oh my god. More poll numbers, and Obama seems to be crushing McCain in every catagory. His worst subject (I thought) was taxes, and he won... by 15 points.Fork. Election. Done. Well, I need to get back to homework. [ 15 October 2008: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]
From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 16 October 2008 06:10 AM
Joe the Plumber. Who is this mysterious man? Many pundits last night said he won the debate. Some people are saying he may have been a GOP plant as part of a strategy, his brother is a major contributer to an RNC PAC for instance. Some say he's just an average guy, an undecided voter who just had a question and is now caught in a whirlwind of crazy electioneering, a potential three week icon for the McCain campaign. He was interviewed many times last night and declined to say who he was going to vote for but indications look like he's leaning away from Obama. He seems to have the Repub talking points down quite pat on issues and on CBS for instance he compared Obama to Sammy Davis JR. Not sure that it matters so much though because if true here is the really funny part... Joe the Plumber may not even be registered to vote and if he truly is just a guy from Toledo Ohio, it's to late to register. Say it ain't so Joe? What's going on? The mystery continues... lol [ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 16 October 2008 07:32 AM
quote: Originally posted by josh:
I'm sure he won't vote for Obama because he's afraid of being "punished" by having to pay a few percent more of his income above $250,000 in taxes. Some average guy.
I think that's where his "Obama's Plan is "socialist" comes from. To those on the ' far right' in the US it's perceived that being deathly afraid of anything that remotely speaks of 'socialism' is what the 'average' person thinks and 'if only people would hear understand that's what these policies are then McCain would win by a landslide'. "Spreading the wealth" is another evil phrase. Hence why McCain brought it up.
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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Willowdale Wizard
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3674
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posted 16 October 2008 07:33 AM
Obama's campaign has already dealt with McCain's "you should have run in 2004" claim.James Fallows, in the Atlantic, had some good conclusions: quote: In general-election debates, it's a losing strategy to "rally the base." That's what your own campaign events, and your fund-raisers, and your targeted ads, and your running mate are for. Especially by the time of the second and third debates, the job is to "rally the center." That's where most of remaining persuadable and undecided voters are.Everything about Barack Obama's approach to this debate, and all debates, was consistent with this reality. Almost nothing about John McCain's approach was: - Obama took every opportunity to steer questions back from campaign tactics to governing issues. ("It's been a tough campaign, and we have hurt feelings, but what really matters is avoiding four more years of...." All quotes here are from memory and therefore approximate, but true to the general spirit.) - He took every opportunity to talk about "working together" to deal with those issues, ("The reality is, it's going to take Republicans and Democrats working together.") - He took nearly every opportunity to suggest encompassing rather than polarizing approaches to the substance of those issues. ("Do we want to reduce the cost of health care or expand the coverage? We've got to do both...") - He took every opportunity to identify areas where he and John McCain actually agreed on approaches. ("I agree with John..." might have seemed an over-used trope in the first debate. This time, very selectively, it helped in the control-the-center strategy.) - He took most opportunities to remain calm, to stay above the fray, to seem amused rather than frazzled, not to take personal offense. As mentioned earlier, he was not quite as perfectly self-contained as in earlier performances. But compared with McCain, he was the one -- in a good sense -- who had taken Prozac, while McCain seemed to be in a 'roid rage. And because of this general self-possession -- realizing, for instance, that there was only upside in being gracious about Sarah Palin -- when he decided to bear down, as in the breathtaking "At your running mate's rallies, when someone mentions my name they say 'Terrorist' and 'Kill him,'" it was the more powerful. If you go down the same list, you can see that McCain did just about the opposite on every one of the counts. His most effective rhetorical line was that if Obama wanted to run against President Bush, he could have done so four years ago. (For that matter, so could McCain.) But that was undercut, according to the logic above, by emphasizing tactics over issues, by emphasizing partisan division over conciliation, by body-language contempt for his opponent, and by a demeanor that reinforced the short-tempered and dyspeptic impression from the previous debates.
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003
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ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355
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posted 16 October 2008 08:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by Boom Boom: McCain said he's not President Bush, but he voted with Bush 95% of the time.
Yep he did and right on cue the Dem campaign released an ad pointing that out. McCain couldn't have given them a better bit of film to use. The transcript quote: Obama: "I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message." *shows the debate clip* McCain: "Senator Obama, I'm not President Bush." Narrator: "No, but you did vote with Bush 90% of the time. Tax breaks for big corporations and the wealth but almost nothing for the middle class - same as Bush. Keep spending $10 billion a month in Iraq while our economy struggles - same as Bush. You may not be George Bush but..." McCain: "I voted with the President over 90% of the time, even higher than a lot of my republican colleagues."
From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005
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Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44
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posted 16 October 2008 08:27 AM
quote: Ireland's biggest bookmaker Paddy Power said Thursday it would pay out early more than 1 million euros (782,776) on bets that Barack Obama will be the next U.S. president, three weeks ahead of the election.The Dublin-based bookmaker said it made the "unprecedented decision" to pay on bets taken so far, following Wednesday's final campaign debate between Obama and his Republican rival John McCain, which polls judged the Democrat to have won. "We declare this race well and truly over and congratulate all those who backed Obama," Power said.
There you have it.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001
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Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791
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posted 16 October 2008 08:51 AM
quote: Originally posted by 500_Apples: Btw McCain talked a lot about Canada. He said we threatened to sell our oil to China if the USA would renegotiate NAFTA. Is this true? I don't recall that happening.
He raised it as a possibility, because China was interested in investing in the oil sands, and a pipeline to the west coast. I don't know what happened, maybe Harper put the kibosh on these ideas?
quote: I think McCain also talked about our health care system.
Yes, but not in a favourable light. He said if we follow Obama's plans for health care reform, we'd (the USA) end up like Canada and England.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004
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Polunatic2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12238
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posted 16 October 2008 01:18 PM
Looks like Joe the Plumber may be related to Charles Keating's son in law, Robert M. Wurzelbacher Jr., who did time along with Charlie for the S&L swindle that McCain encouraged & benefited from. NYT 1993 article Joe's not a registered plumber in Ohio One thing that Obama didn't dare challenge last night was McCain's "soldier to school" plan where returning soldiers could become teachers without having to go through all the rigamarole of getting a teachers certificate. So on the one hand, McCain wants to fire bad teachers, on the other, he wants to militarize the classrooms using unqualified teachers. But who can argue with that. They're got to support their troops. [ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: Polunatic2 ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006
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M. Spector
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8273
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posted 17 October 2008 04:43 PM
quote: John McCain said it. Right out loud in the third debate.“Obviously, we had to take Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait or it would've threatened the Middle Eastern oil supply.” The first gulf war was about defending access to oil after all. McCain reiterated the theme later on, as he has in past debates, when he said that we need to “eliminate our dependence on the places in the world that harm our national security.” What he didn’t say out loud is that the current war, the one in Iraq, is also about defending access to oil and other energy resources. This war has cost us $656 billion and counting. Our country has a long history of using military intervention to secure energy resources. Indeed, according the latest report by the National Priorities Project (NPP), the US will spend around $100 billion of our defense budget this year alone defending access to fossil fuels worldwide. That figure does not include what is spent on the Iraq War, which, when included, will add an additional $100 billion. That’s $200 billion dollars that could be spent, in one year alone, on alternative energy resources and infrastructure, on renewable energy subsidies that will help create green collar jobs for working America. - Source
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005
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Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791
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posted 24 October 2008 08:25 AM
Joe the Plumber? How about Joe the Brother? excerpt: Early this week, Sen. John McCain's brother Joe, while in Alexandria, VA, called 911 because he was irritated with traffic. When the operator asked him if he was really calling the emergency line to complain about highway conditions, Joe McCain responded, "F--k you" and hung up. ETA: President Jimmy Carter has a brother Billy who caused him a bit of embarrassment. I hope Joe McCain is another "Billy". [ 24 October 2008: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004
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