|
Author
|
Topic: Hamas Denies Deal Recognizes Israel
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323
|
posted 27 June 2006 04:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Petsy:
Recognize Israel? Seems a bit of a forgone conclusion that Isreal is there no?
Petsy, I know it's bad netiquette to criticize a poster's grammar or spelling, but in this case I think I owe it to you. What you mean was "foregone" conclusion. A "forgone" conclusion would be one that has been waived, or abandoned. Not what you meant. The tipoff to me was that when I first read it, I agreed with you... Too good to be true.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
B.L. Zeebub LLD
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6914
|
posted 27 June 2006 07:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
I understood Petsy quite well. Israel is a sovereign state. Hamas and others who choose not to "recognize" it are being wilfully blind.
Self-affirmation is good... Anyway, this still dodges the question of exactly what Israel is being recognised? Israel has, quite deliberately, avoided setting its boundaries firmly in any constitution or other statement. States are not abstractions, but things that takes up a certain limited phsycial space which is delimited by the reciprocal recognition of other states. Which space? [ 27 June 2006: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]
From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140
|
posted 27 June 2006 08:00 PM
Elsewhere, Hamas says it is ready to accept, that is, the Arab League's proposal during the 2002 Beirut summit. This consists of "normalization of relations with Israel in exchange for Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 internationally recognized borders, implying Israeli evacuation of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, east Jerusalem, the Golan Heights and the return of all Palestinian refugees and their descendants." This sounds to me like a negotiating position from a position of weakness. Israel has all the cards and wants its victims, its Palestinian victims in particular, to accept and recognize the regime of occupation as legitimate; this would mean recognizing that non-Jewish "citizens" would have permanently inferior rights, and so on. Hamas seems to have views not dissimilar to Israeli views of a state with basic citizenship rights for any Jew who wants to live there and inferior rights, etc., for others, especially Palestinians. Hence, for example, a Jew that moves to Israel automatically has more rights than a Palestinian who has been driver from their home, had their land confiscated, their home bulldozed, etc., etc. in the current situation. I noted that Hamas "seems to have views not dissimilar" etc. Of course, the pro-Israeli crowd wants a Jewish state; the Hamas crowd seems to want a state along the lines of Sharia law, i.e., an Islamic state. Both are opposed to a secular state like the one, for example, in Canada. All in all what I see, especially given the alleged Israeli Mossad role in the unofficial founding of Hamas as a rival to undermine the PLO, is a determination by Israel simply to let "the facts on the ground" determine policy. Israel is very much an apartheid-like regime that wants to make its conquests and occupation permanent. Why negotiate when you are winning? A much more successful strategy is to provoke violence and use that as justification to continue the present course. So, some observers have noted the satisfaction with which the Hamas electoral victory was greeted by in certain influential quarters in Israel. Noam Chomsky has written about this over at ZNet.
From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Email this thread to someone!
